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Post by Jimbo on Dec 1, 2009 20:25:07 GMT -5
I speak the truth.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Dec 1, 2009 20:26:34 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that 2006 would not have been WB's Year of Superman had it not been for SR. I can't think of another year when so much Superman merchandise, especially DVDs, were released. That massive 14-disc set was a huge tie-in to SR. excellent post. because they are corporate tool, poll-focused, trend following , nimrods who can't understand ANYthing creative. thats why i adore PIXAR and aardman- these are studios OPERATED by storytellers who are character-driven and imaginative.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Dec 1, 2009 20:27:48 GMT -5
i dont like your tone young man, we may have to stone you.
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Kirok
New Member
"You have failed this city!"
Posts: 3,179
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Post by Kirok on Dec 2, 2009 0:08:23 GMT -5
This is a valid topic of discussion. Donner's missing SII footage was the Holy Grail of Superman, and because of the direction Bryan Singer chose to take with SR (a continuation of the Donnerverse) and his decision to include Brando as Jor-El in the film, the path was cleared to finally see this mythical material. It was a win-win, right? At the time it seemed so, but retrospectively maybe not. Singer's over-reliance on and referencing to the Donner films is one of the biggest flaws of SR, and the missing SII footage ultimately proved disappointing. Ignorance may be bliss, but it's still ignorance. I'd rather have gotten the Donner footage than always been left wondering what might have been (although even with the footage we STILL do that). And SR was decent enough.
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Post by Jimbo on Dec 2, 2009 1:17:54 GMT -5
If anything, I think it vindicated Richard Lester. With what he had to work with, he crafted an overall entertaining (and above all COHERENT) Superman II, while Donner, well, gave us a bunch of deleted scenes with filler.
Superman Returns and the subsequent release of the Donner deleted scenes helped me see the theatrical S2 in a whole new light.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 2, 2009 3:08:02 GMT -5
That's the conclusion that I can understand--- given that the RDC kept on getting touted as 'the definitive Donner version' of the film by WB and Donner himself, but...
Even after all this time, I can't help but think of Lester as the guy who destroyed the Superman franchise.
With everything properly set in place and half of the movie shot, I think ANY second unit director could have just used Donner's blueprints and have made a great movie-
BUT--- because of Lester's past successes in comedy, (and his need for a comeback at that point)- undermining Donner's original plans seemed to be no problem for him. No wonder Donner has such bad blood for him, even now.
SII theatrical is overall very entertaining 'good' film- but at the (unnecessary) cost of undermining what would have been a classic, if only they'd stuck closer to the seriousness of the Mank script (and with a good editor/music score).
After that--- SIII is 100% Lester--- and look how that blew up the franchise for WB right then and there.
Lester is still the devil of the Superman series, imo. The RDC was so badly put together, though, that it resembles the clunkiness of SIV--- and as a result SII comes off looking far better by its being complete. And Lester can look like a hero rather than the saboteur I still feel he is/was.
*sigh*
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Dec 2, 2009 13:41:15 GMT -5
If anything, I think it vindicated Richard Lester. With what he had to work with, he crafted an overall entertaining (and above all COHERENT) Superman II, while Donner, well, gave us a bunch of deleted scenes with filler.. yes, lester was maligned unfairly, but he did not have the same tone as donner, and i think he felt superman was beneath him. he did a great job from atechnical standpoint, he was a pro. but dooner's understanding of the character was better- IMO. the second point- i have to disagree with the premise. donner didn't ''give us" much of anything except, his blessing for the progect. at this point i have to concede that it may have been better to simply have the deleted scenes as a feature, as opposed to a re-edit. but we're comparing apples and oranges. donner never got to finish it, he wasnt happy with everything that was shot. lester had the advantage of the original cast at the time of the original shoot, the original sets and stages , full-funding and so forth. donner didnt have any of that. so his "facsimlie" isnt a fair comparison at all.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Dec 2, 2009 13:44:43 GMT -5
This is a valid topic of discussion. Donner's missing SII footage was the Holy Grail of Superman, and because of the direction Bryan Singer chose to take with SR (a continuation of the Donnerverse) and his decision to include Brando as Jor-El in the film, the path was cleared to finally see this mythical material. It was a win-win, right? At the time it seemed so, but retrospectively maybe not. Singer's over-reliance on and referencing to the Donner films is one of the biggest flaws of SR, and the missing SII footage ultimately proved disappointing. Ignorance may be bliss, but it's still ignorance. I'd rather have gotten the Donner footage than always been left wondering what might have been (although even with the footage we STILL do that). And SR was decent enough. exxaaaaaaaccctttlllllyyyyyyyy
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ye5man
New Member
1%
Posts: 7,928
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Post by ye5man on Dec 3, 2009 6:35:36 GMT -5
If anything, I think it vindicated Richard Lester. With what he had to work with, he crafted an overall entertaining (and above all COHERENT) Superman II, while Donner, well, gave us a bunch of deleted scenes with filler. Superman Returns and the subsequent release of the Donner deleted scenes helped me see the theatrical S2 in a whole new light. Totally agree, Jim
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 3, 2009 12:37:33 GMT -5
Well put. It's hard to know who made Donner's SII look worse- Lester or Thau, in the end. But--- regardless--- I agree that it's far better to be able to see SOME of what Donner shot, that had been buried for years, even if we can't see it all.
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Post by ADigitalMan on Dec 13, 2009 21:21:00 GMT -5
[If only SOMEONE could make these extra takes/footage from the Donner time available on dvd.....*sigh*... We should ask Mr Thau to do it please. I think I found some Thau-restored rare footage right here:
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