ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 8, 2013 14:12:56 GMT -5
If Singer consciously made a Superman film to be like ST:TMP then he's a fool
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Post by Jimbo on Aug 8, 2013 14:23:35 GMT -5
If Singer consciously made a Superman film to be like ST:TMP then he's a fool That's exactly what it was. He assumed he'd get a pass with one movie, with the expectation he could make a crowdpleaser with the second one. WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 8, 2013 14:32:00 GMT -5
Not consciously. There's more chance and coincidence there than anything. The two films are dealing with different threats and ST TMP is much more cerebral with it questions on the meaning of existence and purpose. Spock and Superman are question their place so there were bound to be similarities. But both are trying to be "deeper" films. Just not always in the same way. Singers films often deal with people who feel different so that goes well beyond trying to copy TMP. That kind of material existed long before ST TMP. Star Treks broad themes probably did have a big influence on him growing up. He's always said he was a fan of stuff like Twilight Zone, BSG, Logan's Run, Stat Trek TOS, etc. MOS does look like much more conscious effort to copy a bunch of "crowd pleasers" and in the end it didn't make much of a difference domestically. Adjusting for inflation, IMAX, etc. MOS has made 31 million more than SR in America. Amazing isn't it? boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=superman.htm
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 8, 2013 14:34:30 GMT -5
If Singer consciously made a Superman film to be like ST:TMP then he's a fool That's exactly what it was. He assumed he'd get a pass with one movie, with the expectation he could make a crowdpleaser with the second one. WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG! IF that is true then frack him. I am glad there is no SR2. I don't know what poop he was smoking when he come up with that strategy - again, IF its true. Will we ever get a fracking good Superman film again? WB just does not understand the character at all.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 8, 2013 14:45:11 GMT -5
He made a slower deeper film. But X-men was a slower more character driven film too. That's not copying ST TMP. Star Trek: TMP was trying to hard to be 2001. SR wasn't that. I don't see how anyone can say it was trying to be 2001esque. Prometheus was more similar to TMP and had a lot of the same problems. Just replace sci fi adventure with sci fi horror.
Singers mistake was not balancing things out well enough. Snyder did the exact opposite of Singer when it came to crowd pleaser and laid an egg of his own. Is 31 mil domestic THAT Much more of a gain considering WB threw their biggest resources at MOS?
Enrique's right. They've stripped everything away from Superman that made him unique just to please a bunch if gamers who said he was too goody goody and thus not relatable enough. I'd say that's more an indictment on them than on Superman.
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Aug 8, 2013 15:53:42 GMT -5
That's exactly what it was. He assumed he'd get a pass with one movie, with the expectation he could make a crowdpleaser with the second one. WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG! IF that is true then frack him. I am glad there is no SR2. I don't know what poop he was smoking when he come up with that strategy - again, IF its true. Will we ever get a fracking good Superman film again? WB just does not understand the character at all. Sad thing is, it's not just Superman. WB doesn't understand any of the DC Characters (except Batman), and I don't think they'll ever understand them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 16:45:23 GMT -5
WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies.
I've never seen him detect poop. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched poop. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth.
I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really!
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Aug 8, 2013 19:09:37 GMT -5
That's true. I was also going to say in my last post that Timm was the only one that understood all of the characters.
I've been saying for years and still believe that Timm should be running the DC movie-verse. WB should have thrown money at him to get him on board.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 8, 2013 20:17:39 GMT -5
WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies. I've never seen him detect poop. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched poop. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth. I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really! Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards Uh...his street/undercover surveillance in Batman Begins. His solo motorcycle ride where he found the cops in Dark Knight? He was smart enough to pull slugs out of a wall for ballistic tests in in TDK. His deduction of Kyles ruse in Rises after discovering the fingerprinting dust. Alfred didn't know what the heck went on there. There's not much be he may have done more actual detective work than Burton's Wayne/Batman. There might be more but I'd have to watch the movies again. Didn't Keaton's Wayne ALSO ask ALFRED do stuff like get all the police files on Joker in Batman? The most I saw Keaton do was patrol when Penguin was at the hall of records and figure out Jokers poison. But that was more crime lab forensics than detective work. He's got a ton of equipment. Bales Batman did the same stuff. Never really saw Keafon come even close to a Matches Malone type undercover deal. Even Bale did more actual legwork to see what he could see.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 8, 2013 20:31:46 GMT -5
That's true. I was also going to say in my last post that Timm was the only one that understood all of the characters. I've been saying for years and still believe that Timm should be running the DC movie-verse. WB should have thrown money at him to get him on board. In live action WB basically lucked out when they chose Nolan. They had nothing left to lose. But even he doesn't totally embrace the material. There are far more possibilities. The Timmverse Batman is by far the best and most well rounded take on the character we've ever seen. WB on their own doesn't have a clue. The DC heroes stories are modern myths. You go too far with the gritty realism and you cut out some of the appeal. You can still make them grounded without making them all dark and totally sucking the excitement and wonder out of them. With WB its either too silly or too overly serious. They don't understand that each character has their own middle ground or their own place on a sliding scale. WBs formulaic and they are trying to apply the same formula to everything. You cant write a perfect formula for creativity. Let the creative types handle that part not the number people. That's why Marvels set the pace for years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 20:52:59 GMT -5
WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies. I've never seen him detect poop. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched poop. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth. I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really! Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards Yeah Alfred having to give him all the dirt on Bane was pretty weird too. Batman is the low point in those films for me for a few reasons. I mean for TDK which is the most popular of the 3 ask anyone about that film and it's all about Ledger's Joker.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 22:42:06 GMT -5
WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies. I've never seen him detect poop. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched poop. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth. I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really! Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards Yeah Alfred having to give him all the dirt on Bane was pretty weird too. Batman is the low point in those films for me for a few reasons. I mean for TDK which is the most popular of the 3 ask anyone about that film and it's all about Ledger's Joker. I always believed Aaron Eckhart stole the show.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 9, 2013 8:13:05 GMT -5
WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies. I've never seen him detect poop. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched poop. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth. I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really! Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards Yeah Alfred having to give him all the dirt on Bane was pretty weird too. Batman is the low point in those films for me for a few reasons. I mean for TDK which is the most popular of the 3 ask anyone about that film and it's all about Ledger's Joker. That's cause Alfred was older and had more world affairs experience. They point out in the movies that he had a military background. That's right from the comics and the animated series. But Batman did his share of surveillance and info gathering and deducting in the trilogy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 11:20:35 GMT -5
And how awesome would it be see Batman in a cloth costume? With bulletproof stuff under, sure, but gads, that would rule. A grey practical looking costume. Is it gray or grey?
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Aug 9, 2013 11:34:34 GMT -5
^^^This^^^^
I'm so tired of the rubber armor/hockey suit Batman. I want a Batman wearing a skintight style suit made with a bullet proof material or, a fabric neck cover... do what they did with Captain America's mask in The Avengers. Grey/Black costume or even grey/really dark blue. (Kevin, I think it's both, but grey is more common.) They need to take examples from Batman Arkham games for the costume. But please.... no more all black padded to heck armor/rubber costumes..
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 9, 2013 13:39:18 GMT -5
And how awesome would it be see Batman in a cloth costume? With bulletproof stuff under, sure, but gads, that would rule. A grey practical looking costume. Is it gray or grey? Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards Amen. I'm tired of the rubber dildosuit Batman costumes. I'm hoping that because of Snyder's male physique obsession he wants a more jacked Batman. That won't work wearing a more restrictive thick rubber armor. If they want this Batman to be different from Nolan's the first place to start is the look and costume. The suit needs a overhaul for the current age of superhero movies. The new Batsuit should be more of a tactical uniform to perfect him but still light and flexible enough to let this Batman do more. Something like the Captain America suit. I like the Superman Speeding Bullets and New 52 Batman costumes becusee they look cloth like and flexible but also have that quilted seamed look that suggest padding and body armor. A more form fitting leather like coal and cape could also be cool.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 14:25:47 GMT -5
Is Snyder actually being ridiculed now because he likes his lead men to get into the required shape?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 15:00:23 GMT -5
No. No one critiqued. Stop.instigating.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 9, 2013 15:02:16 GMT -5
No. Lots of films require the lead to get into the proper shape. Especially superhero films. I'm talking about his fetishistic filming of the male form. Having it and highlighting it a certain way are two different things. He's also SAID he prefers bigger more hulking superhero physiques even by comic book standards. Even those Watchmen characters whose physiques weren't as prominently displayed were highlighted by Snyder. I don't remember Ozymandius having a sculpted rubber physique with Schumacher esque suit nipples in the Watchmen comic book series. I've heard his reasoning for it but I get the feeling he would have done it even if Schumacher didn't do what he did because Snyder basically took part of Ozys character and interests and magnified that in his movie look. I have no problem with him wanting athletic people to get in shape. He likes to have and shoot the male form in a certain way. He's really exact about it. It's ODD sometimes how into it he gets but whatever. This is one case where I'm HOPING he wants a more buff Batman. It would be something different and force some needs changes to Batman's look.
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atp
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Post by atp on Aug 9, 2013 16:16:52 GMT -5
I would have preferrered MoS if Cavill had spent less time in the gym and more time perfecting the acting.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 16:36:43 GMT -5
Gray is the US spelling. Grey is UK. Either is becoming acceptable as people become willfully ignorant of spelling/grammar, like it's some kind of badge of fracking honor in this country. frack! Jimbo, find our grammar Nazi kitten.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 16:40:31 GMT -5
I prefer grey.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 9, 2013 17:16:52 GMT -5
No. Lots of films require the lead to get into the proper shape. Especially superhero films. Unless you are Michael Keaton
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 18:27:55 GMT -5
Or Reeve for the first bit of STM Fair enough tallo. I don't mind it, when you've got a hero i'm cool with highlighting their physique. It's not done as often now but was quite prominent in a lot of films, especially Sly's films. Crazy that out of everyone who's played Superman only one's really matched up physically, Cain's probably second on that list!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 18:29:24 GMT -5
ps. I'd LOVE if they tried to get Batman's suit close to something like the Arkham games. Fantastic
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