atp
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Post by atp on Dec 3, 2015 7:42:10 GMT -5
Just released.
I had high hopes after seeing the previous trailer, but this one looks like it will be crap.
Generic, overdone action and some weird looking monster as well. Just like every other superhero movie today.
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Post by doomsday1 on Dec 3, 2015 12:56:31 GMT -5
"Some weird looking monster". I think that shows how little you know about Superman outside of the donnerverse.
I think one person in the 'facebook herd' liked it, the rest pretty much hated it, so no need for insulting everyone's intelligence you unbelievably sad bastard.
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Post by doomsday1 on Dec 3, 2015 15:09:47 GMT -5
Do your wife and kids ever see you anymore or do you just spend your life in a darkened room at the laptop sulking like a pathetic man child?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 3, 2015 15:40:34 GMT -5
I really liked the previous trailer.
This one, not as much. Hard still for me to buy Affleck as Batman- though it's nothing to do with him. It's my own baggage from seeing too many movies with him and identifying him with too many other things.
Still- I had a similar feeling for Chris Evans as Captain America, but was proven wrong, so, hopefully...
Wonder Woman looks much better than I would have thought. I'll give it that...
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 3, 2015 18:41:07 GMT -5
Just released. I had high hopes after seeing the previous trailer, but this one looks like it will be crap. Generic, overdone action and some weird looking monster as well. Just like every other superhero movie today. I feel what you're saying ATP. the reaction online is mixed at best. The first teaser and the first full trailer were darker but at least they had a consistent tone and came off as epic. This second trailer tried to overcompensate way too hard to criticisms of being to dark or not being like Marvel or whatever and focused too much on overblown cgi nonsense and bad jokes. The stuff between Kent and Wayne was good but otherwise... Eisenberg is horrible. He's a total style and tonal clash against the rest of the movie. It would be like dropping Romero's Joker into The Dark Knight. Even if it is an act it's so ridiculous why would the people of Metropolis be fooled by this cl own show. It's just another rip off of Carreys Edward Nygma to boot. Gadot looks good but yet again no lines. Wonder why. Cavills got two facial expressions: furrowed brow and pouty snarl. C'mon guy act better than that I'm begging you. The trailer gave away too much. Everyone teams up again (we all knew it would happen but it totally takes the focus from the big Bats vs Supes showdown) AND they reveal a really lame looking Doomsday after staying mum on the character for months. Awful. worse than the Terminator Genysis reveal. He looks less like Doomsday and more like the something butt born after Abomination f uc ked an Orc from LOTR. This new trailer was just too unfocused. Didn't know what it wanted to be. Batfleck probably came off looking best so good for him.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 3, 2015 19:03:00 GMT -5
That last shot of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman standing together was clearly trying to copy The Avengers.
And yes, Doomsday looks like something out of the LOTR!
This movie will be worse than MoS. Not better.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 4, 2015 12:30:21 GMT -5
That last shot of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman standing together was clearly trying to copy The Avengers. And yes, Doomsday looks like something out of the LOTR! This movie will be worse than MoS. Not better. I actually liked the trailer, except when characters opened their mouths. Having a script mostly by Chris Terrio may or may not make a big difference. WW looks suprisingly great, though. I'm open to the movie, will see how it is....
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 4, 2015 13:38:08 GMT -5
Academy award winner Akiva Goldsman cowrote and wrote Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. Academy Award Winner John Logan wrote Star Trek Nemises. It's all about what the studio wants and what they let him do as far as the quality of the script. I'm glad Goyers out but some of the dialogue in the newer trailer sounded hammy and even dialogue on previous trailers came off as stiff sometimes.
For the most part it LOOKED cool but like you said when people had to perform. Meh. It's like when they try to tell jokes in the Snyderverse they fall flat on their face. There no flow or rhythm to the jokes. Doesn't hurt to have the comic timing of someone like RDJ either...which Cavill does not. That's why it's always been best before when that kind of humor came from characters like Perry or Jimmy (who they stupidly ain't using). If it wasn't appropriate for Reeve to say something funny as Superman someone else could do it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 4, 2015 16:18:34 GMT -5
Snyder I believe is a genuine comic fan.... But has tremendous trouble directing spoken performances.
Oddly, the Donner cut also has some pretty flawed performances edited by Thau, so I can't tell if its the editing destroying the performances in Snyder's film or if these takes are best ones Snyder can generate.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 4, 2015 17:54:13 GMT -5
I think he's a fan of the artwork and visuals but not so much the other content. And even then I think he prefers McFarlane, Liefeld, and more of the original image guys. Not a Swan or Kirby. He's even admitted he prefers the big jakked up overly muscular takes on the characters we saw more of in the late 80s early 90s. I get that but I think he misses the mark on what makes a good story. It's why so many of his movies fall short. Reminds me of all those stupid excuses he made for the destruction porn when the movie opened in Japan. It was so obvious he had no idea what he was talking about.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 5, 2015 12:42:20 GMT -5
Even the visuals and artwork look awful in this trailer. Everything is dark and gloomy and just too busy. CGI looks awfully fake. Too many weird machines and flashing lights and general filler. In all honesty, I believe that S3 was much better visually -- and that is almost 33 years old!
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Post by Metallo on Dec 5, 2015 16:47:58 GMT -5
I can't cut the movie any slack on the cgi. Compared to most other big budget effects movies BvS has had more time and more money to do a good job on the cgi. Most of it looks good but there's really no excuse for any of it not to. The render work and physics for Doomsday look mediocre at best. I'm not talking about the design but the digital rendering. Same thing for some shots of the cgi Batman.
The films been in the can for a long time so it's not like they've been rushed. The effects should look perfect and they don't. There's really no excuse. At least Civil War has the excuse of starting production well after BvS and Marvel being more frugal with their budgets.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 6, 2015 0:04:36 GMT -5
I actually like the stylized images so far- preferable to me, than the 'shakicam' choice for MOS.
Kind of wish I were in the WB conference rooms to know what exactly will be the barometer for success, and what the price of failure will be, if Batfleck vs. Supes doesn't deliver.
Affleck came out and said in an interview that it would be 'bad'- but I can't see it affecting (at least) the Suicide Squad and WW movie.
The others that aren't in the middle of production is a big question mark, though...
For my two cents, while WB may not be having a hit ratio on the scale of Marvel Studios..... I have this feeling that it's 'now or never' for a lot of their superhero film ideas.
I do think that superhero film fatigue could be setting in with the masses--- and if it is, it might come to a point that even good superhero films disappoint at the box office.... in which case- perhaps the studio budgets and greenlights will start to shrink.
Anyhow---
The trailer reaction doesn't seem to be that great for this one versus the last one (which I thought was pretty darn good). Will be interesting to see how X-men, Bat vs. Supes, and Civil War all do against one another next year...
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 6, 2015 3:41:31 GMT -5
Even the visuals and artwork look awful in this trailer. Everything is dark and gloomy and just too busy. CGI looks awfully fake. Too many weird machines and flashing lights and general filler. In all honesty, I believe that S3 was much better visually -- and that is almost 33 years old!
agreed. I have projected the SIII Blu ray through a 4K projector onto a 70 inch+ screen and it looks exceptional. The cinematography is excellent as is the colour palette. Have also projected Man Of Steel using the same parameters. The de-saturated look which is quite a common stylistic aesthetic used in post production these days is something that I cannot quite fathom. MOS looks pin sharp with what looks like a dose of artificial grain added to give a slightly "gritty" look. But it pales when played side by side with the original Reeve films ,which while softer due to the cinematic processes used at that time(70s-80s), still have more punch to the image thanks to this same analogue technique. My opinion anyways.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 6, 2015 3:47:57 GMT -5
I can't cut the movie any slack on the cgi. Compared to most other big budget effects movies BvS has had more time and more money to do a good job on the cgi. Most of it looks good but there's really no excuse for any of it not to. The render work and physics for Doomsday look mediocre at best. I'm not talking about the design but the digital rendering. Same thing for some shots of the cgi Batman. The films been in the can for a long time so it's not like they've been rushed. The effects should look perfect and they don't. There's really no excuse. At least Civil War has the excuse of starting production well after BvS and Marvel being more frugal with their budgets.
I was thinking the same thing. Snyder takes ages compared to other directors and yet the effects really don't reflect the extra time spent generating them!
It was one of the biggest personal disappointments for me regarding MOS. Compared to Now You See Me, The Great Gatsby, Pacific Rim, Oblivion and a few other flicks from 2013,MOS from a VFX standpoint did not stand out from the crowd, when it had all the advantages(due to the lengthier Post Production) to have done so.
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Post by dejan on Dec 6, 2015 4:12:56 GMT -5
I actually like the stylized images so far- preferable to me, than the 'shakicam' choice for MOS. Kind of wish I were in the WB conference rooms to know what exactly will be the barometer for success, and what the price of failure will be, if Batfleck vs. Supes doesn't deliver. Affleck came out and said in an interview that it would be 'bad'- but I can't see it affecting (at least) the Suicide Squad and WW movie. The others that aren't in the middle of production is a big question mark, though... For my two cents, while WB may not be having a hit ratio on the scale of Marvel Studios..... I have this feeling that it's 'now or never' for a lot of their superhero film ideas. I do think that superhero film fatigue could be setting in with the masses--- and if it is, it might come to a point that even good superhero films disappoint at the box office.... in which case- perhaps the studio budgets and greenlights will start to shrink. Anyhow--- The trailer reaction doesn't seem to be that great for this one versus the last one (which I thought was pretty darn good). Will be interesting to see how X-men, Bat vs. Supes, and Civil War all do against one another next year...
The fact that Star Wars and Superman were completely different from other films that were out at the time(as well as the novelty of showing new cinematic techniques that had NEVER been seen before) is a big part of the reason why they made the cultural impact that they did. In Art, timing is everything.
Star Wars had Smokey And The Bandit,The Deep, Saturday Night Fever, The Gauntlet, Annie Hall, Julia, Herbie Goes To Montecarlo, ect ect to compete with. Superman had Every Which Way But Loose, Grease, King Of The Gypsies, The Deer Hunter, National Lampoon Vacation, Jaws 2, Revenge Of The Pink Panther ect ect.
All these flicks(irrespective of whether they are good or bad) are all distinctly photo realistic films. Does not take a genius to see why Superman and Star Wars stood out from the contemporary crowd. Compare that to the Force Awakens and Baman Vs Superman. They will be using the same techniques used in the flicks below :
Hunger Games, Jurassic World, Age Of Ultron, Ant Man, Terminator Genysis and same generic the list goes on........all feature exactly the same VFX methods. heck .....Terminator Genysis begins with a city/planet destroying sequence.....the same type of sequence that the Force Awakens and Dawn Of Justice will probably end with....yawn.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 6, 2015 5:07:20 GMT -5
Today's directors don't grasp that less is more.
The simple mushroom cloud in STM from the missile in California was so much more ominous and "solid" than the huge explosions in MoS and in this BvS trailer.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 6, 2015 5:23:44 GMT -5
Today's directors don't grasp that less is more. The simple mushroom cloud in STM from the missile in California was so much more ominous and "solid" than the huge explosions in MoS and in this BvS trailer. Absolutely. Very much a case of the action dictating the story as opposed to the story dictating the action.
Money and profit making have always been intrinsic to the film making business. But now it is worse than ever. Snyder, Abrams and the rest simply conform to this standard.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 6, 2015 5:37:27 GMT -5
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Post by crown on Dec 6, 2015 7:03:59 GMT -5
Very disappointed to see Doomsday in this. They should really wait to introduce Doomsday intil the whole JLA has been established. I thought we'd likely see a small Doomsday tease at the end of BvS.. but this is terrible.
Obvious they're gonna use Zod's stinkin'carcass to make Doomsday so at least he still has Kryptonian origins.
On the plus side Gal Gadot is hot.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 6, 2015 8:35:48 GMT -5
Doomsday in this movie is just recycling the Nuclear Man idea from S4.
Both created by Lex from Kryptonian DNA.
Only difference is that S4 is probably better.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 6, 2015 8:39:52 GMT -5
I actually like the stylized images so far- preferable to me, than the 'shakicam' choice for MOS. Kind of wish I were in the WB conference rooms to know what exactly will be the barometer for success, and what the price of failure will be, if Batfleck vs. Supes doesn't deliver. Affleck came out and said in an interview that it would be 'bad'- but I can't see it affecting (at least) the Suicide Squad and WW movie. The others that aren't in the middle of production is a big question mark, though... For my two cents, while WB may not be having a hit ratio on the scale of Marvel Studios..... I have this feeling that it's 'now or never' for a lot of their superhero film ideas. I do think that superhero film fatigue could be setting in with the masses--- and if it is, it might come to a point that even good superhero films disappoint at the box office.... in which case- perhaps the studio budgets and greenlights will start to shrink. Anyhow--- The trailer reaction doesn't seem to be that great for this one versus the last one (which I thought was pretty darn good). Will be interesting to see how X-men, Bat vs. Supes, and Civil War all do against one another next year...
The fact that Star Wars and Superman were completely different from other films that were out at the time(as well as the novelty of showing new cinematic techniques that had NEVER been seen before) is a big part of the reason why they made the cultural impact that they did. In Art, timing is everything.
Star Wars had Smokey And The Bandit,The Deep, Saturday Night Fever, The Gauntlet, Annie Hall, Julia, Herbie Goes To Montecarlo, ect ect to compete with. Superman had Every Which Way But Loose, Grease, King Of The Gypsies, The Deer Hunter, National Lampoon Vacation, Jaws 2, Revenge Of The Pink Panther ect ect.
All these flicks(irrespective of whether they are good or bad) are all distinctly photo realistic films. Does not take a genius to see why Superman and Star Wars stood out from the contemporary crowd. Compare that to the Force Awakens and Baman Vs Superman. They will be using the same techniques used in the flicks below :
Hunger Games, Jurassic World, Age Of Ultron, Ant Man, Terminator Genysis and same generic the list goes on........all feature exactly the same VFX methods. heck .....Terminator Genysis begins with a city/planet destroying sequence.....the same type of sequence that the Force Awakens and Dawn Of Justice will probably end with....yawn.
Very very good post. The interesting thing about STM is that even though it was fantastical and used groundbreaking techniques, it still felt grounded. Most of it has the same "photo real" appearance as other 1970s movies. Superman just fits in with the world in the film seamlessly. With MoS and this new trailer, it is like the world is being forced to look fake so that it fits with the superheroes.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 6, 2015 9:30:25 GMT -5
Doomsday in this movie is just recycling the Nuclear Man idea from S4. Both created by Lex from Kryptonian DNA. Only difference is that S4 is probably better. Great point. SIV would have been better if it had the advantage of the money and quick fix technology(CGI) that has been thrown at DOJ. I wonder how far Zac Snyder would have got as a director had he been born 15-20 years earlier. the problem with CGI is that it is an easy solution to any potential story telling conundrum. And it has allowed a legion of generic wannabe directors(Snyder,Abrams ect) with no sense of daring originality, to perpetuate hollow box office slush that make a ton of money but leave no residual cultural or soulful impact.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 6, 2015 11:16:14 GMT -5
I actually like the stylized images so far- preferable to me, than the 'shakicam' choice for MOS. Kind of wish I were in the WB conference rooms to know what exactly will be the barometer for success, and what the price of failure will be, if Batfleck vs. Supes doesn't deliver. Affleck came out and said in an interview that it would be 'bad'- but I can't see it affecting (at least) the Suicide Squad and WW movie. The others that aren't in the middle of production is a big question mark, though... For my two cents, while WB may not be having a hit ratio on the scale of Marvel Studios..... I have this feeling that it's 'now or never' for a lot of their superhero film ideas. I do think that superhero film fatigue could be setting in with the masses--- and if it is, it might come to a point that even good superhero films disappoint at the box office.... in which case- perhaps the studio budgets and greenlights will start to shrink. Anyhow--- The trailer reaction doesn't seem to be that great for this one versus the last one (which I thought was pretty darn good). Will be interesting to see how X-men, Bat vs. Supes, and Civil War all do against one another next year... It's funny to me that finally they feel they are going for something more realistic but visually it's pure fantasy. The world is so overly stylized. To be fair I think Marvels films sometimes look too plain and TV movie ish. Is it so hard to find a middle ground? The next year will be an interesting guage. If all these films do good business it'll be a strike against the talk of fatigue already setting in. WBs too far in to stop now. Even if BvS underperformed and gets awful reviews they will press forward they'll just make some adjustments. I think the movie has to hit a billion though. WB didn't put all this money and effort into the movie for anything less. They're pretty much throwing everything in their arsenel at this launch of their universe. It is funny to me how Fox and XMen Apocalypse are pretty much forgotten in all this talk. I wonder how they feel about this?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 6, 2015 11:18:23 GMT -5
I actually like the stylized images so far- preferable to me, than the 'shakicam' choice for MOS. Kind of wish I were in the WB conference rooms to know what exactly will be the barometer for success, and what the price of failure will be, if Batfleck vs. Supes doesn't deliver. Affleck came out and said in an interview that it would be 'bad'- but I can't see it affecting (at least) the Suicide Squad and WW movie. The others that aren't in the middle of production is a big question mark, though... For my two cents, while WB may not be having a hit ratio on the scale of Marvel Studios..... I have this feeling that it's 'now or never' for a lot of their superhero film ideas. I do think that superhero film fatigue could be setting in with the masses--- and if it is, it might come to a point that even good superhero films disappoint at the box office.... in which case- perhaps the studio budgets and greenlights will start to shrink. Anyhow--- The trailer reaction doesn't seem to be that great for this one versus the last one (which I thought was pretty darn good). Will be interesting to see how X-men, Bat vs. Supes, and Civil War all do against one another next year...
The fact that Star Wars and Superman were completely different from other films that were out at the time(as well as the novelty of showing new cinematic techniques that had NEVER been seen before) is a big part of the reason why they made the cultural impact that they did. In Art, timing is everything.
Star Wars had Smokey And The Bandit,The Deep, Saturday Night Fever, The Gauntlet, Annie Hall, Julia, Herbie Goes To Montecarlo, ect ect to compete with. Superman had Every Which Way But Loose, Grease, King Of The Gypsies, The Deer Hunter, National Lampoon Vacation, Jaws 2, Revenge Of The Pink Panther ect ect.
All these flicks(irrespective of whether they are good or bad) are all distinctly photo realistic films. Does not take a genius to see why Superman and Star Wars stood out from the contemporary crowd. Compare that to the Force Awakens and Baman Vs Superman. They will be using the same techniques used in the flicks below :
Hunger Games, Jurassic World, Age Of Ultron, Ant Man, Terminator Genysis and same generic the list goes on........all feature exactly the same VFX methods. heck .....Terminator Genysis begins with a city/planet destroying sequence.....the same type of sequence that the Force Awakens and Dawn Of Justice will probably end with....yawn.
Agreed- when special effects shots were OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive and the filmmaker had to apply them sparingly- you'd (sort of) believe it was really happening back in the day and gasp. The nice thing about Star Wars and Superman being breakthrough special effects films- is that both of these groundbreakers had HEART to them. (Oddly, Logan's Run which came before also had Award winning effects and was expected to do boffo business, but didn't--- also, has heart, but the movie was disappointing box-officewise and the story's ending was a bit lame, which probably didn't help.) \
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