Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 26, 2016 18:07:23 GMT -5
It's overstuffed and undercooked. It's not as bad as those people saying its a the worst movie ever but Jesus it's got problems. The film doesn't feel long but the pacing is all off through most of it. The transitions are easy to understand but you cut from one scene to the other so fast they don't have time to flow or sink in or mean anything. It jumps from scene to scene like marking off a checklist of story points to cover.
Spoilers!
Affleck is the best Batman and Bruce Wayne ever. He's got the look the personality the confidence and he's intimidating as heck in the suit. He delivers. Problem is the movie has so much useless or unneeded crap jammed into it you don't get to see him or anyone else enough.
The movie starts pretty strong with the Waynes murder and then flashes forward to Metropolis getting fracked over by Zod and his ship. We see it from Bruce Wayne's pov. They set up the first feelings of antagonism. That's fine.
There's some good action but it takes an hour to get to it and even then it's so short and spread out theres not much to see. Superman and batman both go full Justice Lord at different points. They're like f it killing terrorists and mercs is a-ok. Supermans saving people in random accidents and dangers around the world is mostly covered in one montage and that's it. Superman gets framed for killing more terrorists in a shootout. They get shot to death. Why would anyone believe superman would need to shoot people? There's more stuff like that but it's just not developed well enough.
Not as much Batmobile stuff as I'd hoped and some of the cgi in the chases looks like crap. A lot of the cgi looks like crap.
Gal Gadot has like ten lines some of them are good and the other half are so wooden. But she's a badass in action and looks great. Wonder Woman fights like goddarn valkyrie! I'm hesitantly on board for the Wonder Woman movie but I'm still not sure she can carry a large role. Cavills whole performance is mixed. His Clark Kent stuff is good. Its his Superman stuff that ranges from being a literal humans statue who is boring as hel'l to very good to ridiculously bad acting. He has some good chemistry with Lois Lane but Lois's damsel in distress sh** is taken to a new level. It's absurd. But they have some truly heartfelt scenes and I feel like they've finally developed a good chemistry.
The JLA computer files was like the laziest way to set them up. Bruce wayne hacks lexcorps computers and emails the files to Diana Prince. The movie stops dead in its tracks and becomes a Justice league trailer. With music. I mean yeah the footage looked cool but the movie literally stops. The whole story is paper thin.
Eisenberg acts like he's from a totally different movie. Like Batman Forever or Amazing Spiderman 2. At times it's interesting but most of the time he is god awful. I don't see how anyone couldn't get that Lex is batsh** crazy. His initial reasoning for hating batman and superman isn't explained very well but at some point it's hinted he wanted to get them out of the way and clear the decks for some kind of alien invasion of earth. He's cringe inducingly bad at times. Makes Hackmans lex look menacing.
Lex had Zods body rolled, carted, and literally dragged around like something out of weekend at Bernies. He stuffs naked Zod into a pool of goo in a kryptonian space ship, splatters his own blood on the corpse, and dunks him in the pool to marinate until he corpse mutates into Doomsday. It's so strange it's almost funny.
We get to see Batman vs Superman and what little there is is good but way too short. The fight between batman and superman is good but the setup is just absurd and it starts strong with superman but then gets totally one sided with batman handing him his a$$ by the end. Wayne and Kent have to be turned into idiots to be played into fighting each other. The trailers set up a far more clear cut reasoning from them to go at each other then the convoluted and over complicated say the film does. Their reasons for having that animosity just isn't believable enough for two guys that smart. Kent forgets his concern for his kidnapped mother for a while and just keeps fighting. It's so darn stupid. Poorly convenient script writing. He could have just hovered away and kept trying to tell Batman what was going on.
Doomsday....looked ridiculous. I laughed out loud. He looked like a big hydrocephaleptic baby. Oh god. Cgi for him was borderline terrible at times. Cool fight at the end but so much was going on. Superman takes doomsday into space and the military nukes them in orbit. It's very DKR . Lois's whole purpose at the end is to throw away then retrieve a kryptonite spear Batman forged to kill Superman and almost drown in the process. Superman saves her again and in one of the rare times Cavill is actually believable as Superman.
There aremore big spoilers but I'll leave them be. I'm torn. The ending could work but I feel it's one story too many for a movie that's already huge. It's like WB took ALL the abandoned scripts like Burton's Superman Lives, Peterson's Batman vs Superman, Millers Justice League Mortal, Superman Flyby and told Snyder "here use all this in a movie. We paid for it so we want to get something out of it."
its so bizarre. If we'd just gotten what we saw in the trailers it would have been so much better. That was enough and it was focused and compelling. It didn't need to be so complicated even with the DCEU world building. Way too many subplots. There are some things that are actually improved on from man of steel but I have to say overall man of steel was more competently put together film and had more focus.
BvS basically suffers from many of the same problems iron man 2 amazing Spiderman 2 and age of Ultron suffered from. More concerned with world building than focusing on the really interesting story at hand only this time it might be worse because Snyder isn't as good at character storytelling and pacing. At least those other films had some better stand out dramatic scenes and some better paced action. The film LOOKS great. The aesthetics mostly work. But it needs a re edit badly. Very badly. The longer the movie goes on the more and more you realize it's gone off the rails. The actors were mostly capable of so much more. You can tell with the right support Cavill has a better performance in him I don't know how good but better.
Giving it a 6.5 out of 10 is being very generous. I really want to give it lower but I also don't. There's cool stuff in there but...arg.
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Post by doomsday1 on Mar 27, 2016 9:35:56 GMT -5
Probably the most poorly edited blockbuster film ever released. For the money involved and time it's taken to make it, it's staggering that it could be such a mess. There's a lot of great stuff in it and a lot of potential but it's never allowed to breathe because they've stuffed 4 stories into a 2 and a half hour film.
The cast were excellent, especially Affleck. I don't think Eisenberg was bad but that wasn't Lex Luthor, too far removed from the original character that it's not even the same guy. Cavill was fine but he didn't have much to work with, in fact the biggest disappointment of the film is the terrible characterisation of Superman, people weren't keen on him brooding and scowling in Man of Steel, so Snyder decided the best thing to do......would be to double down on that and make it even more pronounced in BvS, sheer stupidity. Fact is he's a pretty lousy Superman in this film, though it did look like he'd been tossed aside in favour of Snyder's shiny new Batman toy, after all Superman doesn't really get to speak to anyone apart from Lois
There's some really strange stuff in the plot which doesn't quite make sense to me, though it's hard to tell if I missed things because it was so bloated and frantic. Wonder Woman was a real surprise in terms of how good she was on screen, thought Gadot did well with everything she had. Doomsday was your standard CGI monster, though when he was evolving the visuals were so bad that I'm sure I've actually played video games with better graphics.
The death of Superman shouldn't have been in this at all, but that moment was well done, very touching, but it honestly shouldn't have been done in this film. It could have been a huge thing if it was done at the end of Justice League Part 1, but given that we all know Cavill is signed up to JL and Superman is in the film it really negates a lot of the emotional impact of Superman actually being dead, I mean we know he's coming back.
It doesn't deserve the level of hate it's getting, but I couldn't blame critics for not recommending it to people either, for having Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in it, it's disappointing. For me the best thing to come out of this will be Affleck's solo Batman film, that's an exciting prospect.
Zack Snyder I think can consider himself fortunate he's about to start filming the Justice League, he really doesn't deserve it after this. He got a lot of unfair criticism after Man of Steel, but with this he really has to take his medicine because what he delivered simply wasn't good enough, in fact the prospect of him making the Justice League is a scary one at this point.
Bottom line, lots of good stuff in there, great performances, but structure, pacing and plot stop mean it's never a good film as a whole.
5.5/10
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2016 10:03:46 GMT -5
I seem to remember you saying I was being too hard on the film a while back.
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Post by doomsday1 on Mar 27, 2016 15:24:29 GMT -5
If it was a good film you'd have still pissed all over it such is your hatred of Zack Snyder. Anyway going on the trailer it looked fine, the big flaws wouldn't be very evident to anyone who hadn't sat down and watched the full film.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 27, 2016 17:08:15 GMT -5
Longer review later. Got a feeling the Supes stuff got trimmed after a preview.
In short, there is a lot to like in the film.... I agree that I don't think it deserves all the hate it gets.
More curious about the extended 'r' cut now.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2016 17:57:41 GMT -5
If it was a good film you'd have still pissed all over it such is your hatred of Zack Snyder. Anyway going on the trailer it looked fine, the big flaws wouldn't be very evident to anyone who hadn't sat down and watched the full film. BS. I praised stuff in my review that I feared would be bad. I scored it higher than you did. A lot of the films problems were obvious from the trailers and interviews. The second trailer was roundly criticized so how can you say people didn't have anything to look at to give them pause? They focused so much on Batman for a reason.
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Post by doomsday1 on Mar 29, 2016 10:00:32 GMT -5
The biggest problems are structure and editing. You couldn't glean any of this from the second trailer so stop pretending you had some sort of insight into how it was all going to play out. Also, you scoring it higher than me doesn't mean anything, other than that I thought it was slightly more disappointing than you did. The only concern that's been there from the minute the first trailer hit was that instead of evolving Superman as they said they would, they'd keep him as a mopey conflicted Superman, which they did in the end. The film's got great potential, it's just all wasted by poor choices. Imagine looking for a pat on the back because you initially ragged on a film you were always going to rag on regardless Especially when it's Zack Snyder and history has shown the best he can deliver is a 'good' film, there's very little chance of him ever bringing everything together to produce a 'great' film.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 29, 2016 13:30:02 GMT -5
The biggest problems are structure and editing. You couldn't glean any of this from the second trailer so stop pretending you had some sort of insight into how it was all going to play out. Also, you scoring it higher than me doesn't mean anything, other than that I thought it was slightly more disappointing than you did. The only concern that's been there from the minute the first trailer hit was that instead of evolving Superman as they said they would, they'd keep him as a mopey conflicted Superman, which they did in the end. The film's got great potential, it's just all wasted by poor choices. Imagine looking for a pat on the back because you initially ragged on a film you were always going to rag on regardless Especially when it's Zack Snyder and history has shown the best he can deliver is a 'good' film, there's very little chance of him ever bringing everything together to produce a 'great' film. Why don't you stop being an a hole and personally going after people you don't agree with. If you come here to have a civil discussion great but if you come here to be a troll to start sh** you must have plenty of of time to waste. The film clearly looked bloated. It was. Doomsday looked like crap. Which he did. Certain things were limited in the trailer and they were in the film. You lead with your best stuff in trailers without giving too much away. They did and they STILL have stuff away after publicly denying it. If you're including messy unfocused scriptwriting in the "structure" problem I agree because the script meanders all about when it didn't need too. Lots of people said the same things I did. If Snyder had made a better film I would have given him all the credit. You say it just means I was less disappointed than you? Or it means I enjoyed it more than you or didn't blind myself to the problems evident and knew what to expect. Either way if I was so biased I'd hate this movie up and down and rate it a zero. I don't and I didn't. The evidence flies in the face of everything you say. I've given credit to things I criticized Snyder before so again ya have no case. Sorry.
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Post by stargazer0118 on Mar 31, 2016 18:48:20 GMT -5
I don't know what happened.. but I suddenly feel like watching this! Maybe it's all the hype around Wonder Woman and Batfleck, or maybe all the controversy about the movie, but I can't wait to see it. Probably tomorrow. Still haven't see Man of Steel. LOL BTW, Ben Affleck has the Batman look down like noone else before, IMO. And his Batman looks like a real badass like never before in live action. pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce6d896XEAAcGgT.jpgSo how do we show/post pictures here? Tried and tried but couldn't figure it out..
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 31, 2016 19:18:28 GMT -5
I don't know what happened.. but I suddenly feel like watching this! Maybe it's all the hype around Wonder Woman and Batfleck, or maybe all the controversy about the movie, but I can't wait to see it. Probably tomorrow. Still haven't see Man of Steel. LOL BTW, Ben Affleck has the Batman look down like noone else before, IMO. And his Batman looks like a real badass like never before in live action. pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce6d896XEAAcGgT.jpgSo how do we show/post pictures here? Tried and tried but couldn't figure it out.. Good to see you back! To post pictures click on this icon and put in the url. I'd say go check BvS out. It's worth seeing on the big screen at least once for the visuals alone. Make up your own mind. You might like it. It would help to see MOS first. I don't think you absolutely have too but the characters backstory and seeing the events in full does add to what you're watching.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 1, 2016 16:07:12 GMT -5
I don't know what happened.. but I suddenly feel like watching this! Maybe it's all the hype around Wonder Woman and Batfleck, or maybe all the controversy about the movie, but I can't wait to see it. Probably tomorrow. Still haven't see Man of Steel. LOL BTW, Ben Affleck has the Batman look down like noone else before, IMO. And his Batman looks like a real badass like never before in live action. pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce6d896XEAAcGgT.jpgSo how do we show/post pictures here? Tried and tried but couldn't figure it out.. I think it's worth seeing.... But keep expectations low. I knew ahead of time there was a 'checklist' of items they were going to have to set up the Justice League, so I thought it interesting how they set it up. Some hate it, but I was mildly impressed how they connected the dots.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 1, 2016 19:12:27 GMT -5
CAM is right. As long as you dont expect it to live all the way up to the MASSIVE hype it works much better.
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Post by stargazer0118 on Apr 2, 2016 1:07:16 GMT -5
I watched it today... and liked it a lot! So much I cried at the end..
I knew some liked it, but I was also aware of the bad reviews, but I just CAN'T understand all the hate. It's so unfair how much hate its gotten. Is it a masterpiece/without flaws? Probably not, but I liked most of it quite a lot. And you know this coming from me means something. I mean, I haven't even seen MOS because I was so disappointed SR didn't get a sequel... So biased I am not!
But this movie was very cool and thought-provoking. It's very dark, but I like dark if done well. I also don't think the main characters were so out of character like some say.. Batman and Superman live in a more cynical world. I wish Superman smiled/was more optimistic but the circumstances in the film didn't allow for it. And Batman has changed into a more rough version, but it makes sense in context. He has zero tolerance. He is done. Is it right? No, but everybody has a limit.
I liked both fights. Superman VS Batman and the Doomsday fight. I thought Doomsday looked really good and scary. The music was pretty good too and even great in parts. Wonder Woman looked awesome and I liked her acting well enough. Yes Affleck is an amazing Batman/Bruce. The best ever, IMO. This Batman truly kicks butt like a master he's supposed to be. And Cavill as Superman is very believable. He looks and sounds great. And this coming from a Brandon Routh Superman lover.. At times I felt I was watching Brandon's Supes.. I guess both look so much like Superman.. I guess it's just me.. But I can still appreciate Cavill, and he does well here. His Clark is weak, though. His only disguise is the glasses... Doesn't really work for me, but oh well. His suit/cape looks awesome in action. Really dig the colors. I even liked Eisenberg as Lex... and I was very against him in the role.. but somehow he works in this story. Mad scientist. He is kind of nuts.
The part I didn't like a lot was Batman's visions. I suppose he was seeing some possible future? It was kind of weird.
The clips of all the other JL members were great, really liked how it was done.
my rating is 9/10 right now. I'll watch it again next weekend. God, please let us have a Justice League movie... it's time!
Oh yeah seeing the Trinity together was awesome! Honestly, no Marvel/Avengers movie makes me feel this emotion. Not even close. I grew up watching Superman and his friends, so the other Marvel heroes will never compare no matter how good the movies can be.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 2, 2016 8:55:35 GMT -5
It's not Batman & robin bad like some people say. Theres a lot of good things in BvS. A lot of ambitious things we've never seen before. Especially visually. I do respect that Snyder swung big and didn't play it safe on some things even if they didn't work. As someone who didn't like it I'll see if I can explain the other side. A lot of people thought the film was poorly paced and edited. They thought the characterizations were not fully fleshed out. The movie tried to cram in too much and felt more like Justice league 0.5. Superman didn't say enough. Didn't emote enough. Didn't seem to enjoy helping people enough. Two films in and we still didn't really get to know who he was whereas in past incarnations we got to know him well enough far sooner to care. They did put the time in to develop Batman though. The film had logic problems and blatantly obvious convenience scriptwriting. Why would Lois throw a spear made of kryptonite into a pool of water where someone might find it later? Yeah get rid of it but like that? Wouldnt it be better to put it somewhere she could keep an eye on it until it was all over? They just did that so she would have to go back and find it, almost drown, and need superman to save her again. Basically to give Amy Adams something to do to justify her being in the movie. People bagged on SR for its wildly inconsistent portrayal of the effects of kryptonite on Superman but this film is almost as bad. He almost drowns and can't get out of a pool of water but minutes later he can pick it up AND fly it into Doomsday to kill him? Then there's Batmans kryptonite has grenades. It's not exactly clear how that got out of his system so fast. We're just told "ok" even though some of that had to get in his dam.n lungs. Superman could hear Lois in danger all over but couldn't tell where Martha was being held? He loved his mother so much that he wouldn't do everything in his power to reason with Bruce to save Martha. He could have hovered out of reach and shouted so loud he shattered windows. Things just happen. characters act stupidly just to move the plot along not because it makes sense or is organic storytelling. The "Save Martha" thing was a great idea on paper but they didn't develop it enough. They needed to think it through some more. Why would batman put that much animosity and pure hatred and anger aside so fast? Even if Martha was in trouble it doesn't mean his fears about Superman were unjustified. They needed some dialogue where they hashed out their differences for then but still had some tension. As it was Batman just turned on a dime. The tension just totally evaporated. If you're in a fight you usually don't just drop all the problems that fast. I can only imagine how hard it would be when one guy is so angry he wants to KILL the other guy. The film is just sadly littered with things like this. I'm looking forward to Civil War because the relashionship between Bucky and Steve has been developed for five years and three movies. And the tension between Steve and Tony has been building for four years and multiple films. It won't be rushed. The end of Winter Soldier where Steve dropped his shield and and said he wouldn't fight Bucky any more got to me more than anything in Snyders films. It's because they spent an entire film before that showing how close these two guys were. Closer than some brothers. The great thing about Civil War is nobody is really "wrong" on the two sides. If iron man does want Bucky dead or locked up Bucky can't really be held responsible for his actions either. He may be the biggest victim in all of this. He was tortured, brainwashed, and had 70 years of his life stolen from him. I love that across all these movies Steve Rogers feels like every bit the hero Superman used to be and unashamedly so. The MCU Capptain America represents more than just a version of the character that represents THIS time. He represents all times. Yesterday and today. It's like marvel distilled everything about the character across 75 years and infused it into the movie version. I can't say I feel that way about Superman. He doesn't feel like the summation of every version of the character across various media over 75 years. He feels like something new or modern but not everything. When I look at what Evans is doing I see Joe Simons Cap AND Ed Brubakers Cap. When I look at Superman I can't really say I feel the spirit of Mark Waids Superman or Grant Morrisons Superman or Mort Weisingers Superman all fused into one. It was amazing to see Superman Batman and Wonder Woman together in live action or the first time but Marvel will always get more of my respect for doing something like that first. It took them doing it first with their characters for WB to finally make it happen with theirs even though it was much easier for WB to make it happen first. Marvel had higher hurdles to jump to create a shared universe. WB could have done this decades ago but they didn't have the vision or the foresight. They didn't see the value in it until recently. Personally I thought BvS usually had the veneer of depth but didn't really explore things enough for it to really matter. Sometimes it did rise above that and that's what it needed more of. I'm glad you liked it though. A lot of people have liked it so you aren't alone. The success of the film guarantees them a chance to build a better future on the big screen.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 2, 2016 13:08:38 GMT -5
I watched it today... and liked it a lot! So much I cried at the end.. I knew some liked it, but I was also aware of the bad reviews, but I just CAN'T understand all the hate. It's so unfair how much hate its gotten. Is it a masterpiece/without flaws? Probably not, but I liked most of it quite a lot. And you know this coming from me means something. I mean, I haven't even seen MOS because I was so disappointed SR didn't get a sequel... So biased I am not! But this movie was very cool and thought-provoking. It's very dark, but I like dark if done well. I also don't think the main characters were so out of character like some say.. Batman and Superman live in a more cynical world. I wish Superman smiled/was more optimistic but the circumstances in the film didn't allow for it. And Batman has changed into a more rough version, but it makes sense in context. He has zero tolerance. He is done. Is it right? No, but everybody has a limit. I liked both fights. Superman VS Batman and the Doomsday fight. I thought Doomsday looked really good and scary. The music was pretty good too and even great in parts. Wonder Woman looked awesome and I liked her acting well enough. Yes Affleck is an amazing Batman/Bruce. The best ever, IMO. This Batman truly kicks butt like a master he's supposed to be. And Cavill as Superman is very believable. He looks and sounds great. And this coming from a Brandon Routh Superman lover.. At times I felt I was watching Brandon's Supes.. I guess both look so much like Superman.. I guess it's just me.. But I can still appreciate Cavill, and he does well here. His Clark is weak, though. His only disguise is the glasses... Doesn't really work for me, but oh well. His suit/cape looks awesome in action. Really dig the colors. I even liked Eisenberg as Lex... and I was very against him in the role.. but somehow he works in this story. Mad scientist. He is kind of nuts. The part I didn't like a lot was Batman's visions. I suppose he was seeing some possible future? It was kind of weird. The clips of all the other JL members were great, really liked how it was done. my rating is 9/10 right now. I'll watch it again next weekend. God, please let us have a Justice League movie... it's time! Oh yeah seeing the Trinity together was awesome! Honestly, no Marvel/Avengers movie makes me feel this emotion. Not even close. I grew up watching Superman and his friends, so the other Marvel heroes will never compare no matter how good the movies can be. By the way, welcome back! Hope to see you around here more, Stargazer!
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 2, 2016 13:17:56 GMT -5
Ditto!
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Post by stargazer0118 on Apr 2, 2016 13:27:07 GMT -5
Metallo, I noticed all those coincidences, developments and characters actions you mentioned, but I see it all the time in these type of movies, though.. all the darn time. Not even Avengers is free of that. Personally, I don't have a big problem with any of those things you mentioned. It's so difficult to make Superman vulnerable or to know how powerful he should be, but if you just buy it on an emotional level it works for you. If you didn't well it doesn't. I don't need for everything little thing in these movies to make complete sense.. because if you do, then it's hard to enjoy them for what they are, IMO. Yes Superman can hear everything or a lot, but only when the writers think it works for the plot/story they are telling. Superman the Movie has lots of plot holes, but we still love it, even though some things don't work for me anymore like Luthor and co. They are just so corny and cheesy now it hurts, but some things still hold up very well. I appreciate that in BvS they took the time to actually explain how kryptonite could hurt Superman. STM never did it. Any way, looks like BvS is not doing so good this weekend at the BO, and that makes me sad. Seems things I like a lot are not meant to continue, but only time will tell. I'm watching it again next week with my son who couldn't see it yesterday with me. He is 15 now and thinks Avengers is just ok. We at least agree on that. It's not a bad movie, but we don't get goosebumps like many seem to get with it. I just prefer the DC heroes so much more I suppose. But I respect everyone's opinion. I do agree on one thing, though.. Superman needs to smile more if there is a JL movie. Things need to change in the world so that he can feel more positive and confident. Otherwise, he won't seem to be growing.
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Post by stargazer0118 on Apr 2, 2016 13:33:11 GMT -5
Thank you guys! I enjoy reading your posts, even when we don't agree. It's nice to comment on the movies and shows. thanks.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 2, 2016 13:33:19 GMT -5
You're right. Most movies have those problems. I think they were just worse and particularly glaring in BvS for some people because there wasn't as much to distract from them. I think when a lot of people come out not loving Superman they have other things to think about. STM has some of throse same problems but when your distracted by Christopher Reeve soaring to John Williams you're too busy to care about sll the flaws.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 2, 2016 13:36:20 GMT -5
I think one thing that hurt BvS box office was no build up to it with other movies. The five movie build up to avengers was part of the marketing. People who don't know much about comics went to see what all that other stuff in the solo films was leading too. I fear WB looking for short cuts may have cost them a bit. They shouldn't feel like they have to catch up to Marvels dozen steps with a couple
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Post by stargazer0118 on Apr 2, 2016 13:37:06 GMT -5
You're right. Most movies have those problems. I think they were just worse and particularly glaring in BvS for some people because there wasn't as much to distract from them. I think when a lot of people come out not loving Superman they have other things to think about. STM has some of throse same problems but when your distracted by Christopher Reeve soaring to John Williams you're too busy to care about sll the flaws. I have to disagree.. I think BvS has plenty of pretty things to look at like Superman himself and Batffleck.. Even Wondy is great eye candy, and I'm not into women at all, but I can see when a woman is beautiful. Also the cinematography and imagery is fantastic, IMO..
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Post by stargazer0118 on Apr 2, 2016 13:39:15 GMT -5
You're right. Most movies have those problems. I think they were just worse and particularly glaring in BvS for some people because there wasn't as much to distract from them. I think when a lot of people come out not loving Superman they have other things to think about. STM has some of throse same problems but when your distracted by Christopher Reeve soaring to John Williams you're too busy to care about sll the flaws. I have to disagree.. I think BvS has plenty of pretty things to look at like Superman himself and Batffleck.. Even Wondy is great eye candy, and I'm not into women at all, but I can see when a woman is beautiful. Also the cinematography and imagery is fantastic, IMO..
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Post by stargazer0118 on Apr 2, 2016 13:41:30 GMT -5
I think one thing that hurt BvS box office was no build up to it with other movies. The five movie build up to avengers was part of the marketing. People who don't know much about comics went to see what all that other stuff in the solo films was leading too. I fear WB looking for short cuts may have cost them a bit. They shouldn't feel like they have to catch up to Marvels dozen steps with a couple I wanted to reply to this post, not the other one. No sure how to delete the last one.. And yes, you might be right. Hope it's not too late, I really want a JL movie in this universe. :/
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 2, 2016 13:45:47 GMT -5
You're right. Most movies have those problems. I think they were just worse and particularly glaring in BvS for some people because there wasn't as much to distract from them. I think when a lot of people come out not loving Superman they have other things to think about. STM has some of throse same problems but when your distracted by Christopher Reeve soaring to John Williams you're too busy to care about sll the flaws. I have to disagree.. I think BvS has plenty of pretty things to look at like Superman himself and Batffleck.. Even Wondy is great eye candy, and I'm not into women at all, but I can see when a woman is beautiful. Also the cinematography and imagery is fantastic, IMO.. Well I don't mean just visually but the characters and the emotional connection to them as well. I agree stuff in BvS LOOKS great. When I was s kid Reeve WAS Superman to me. even when he talked. He represented something deeper. A morality. A role model. Something to aspire to. He was the hero of all those comic books I used to read. Even with Routh I felt that connection. Like this was the hero I looked up too. Personally I feel Routh brought more heart to the role than Cavill even if some people say Cavill is the better actor Don't worry though, Star. The DCEU isn't going anywhere. WBs got way too much money tied up and way to many hopes for the future to scuttle their plans for more DC movies.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 2, 2016 14:55:28 GMT -5
Metallo, I noticed all those coincidences, developments and characters actions you mentioned, but I see it all the time in these type of movies, though.. all the darn time. Not even Avengers is free of that. Personally, I don't have a big problem with any of those things you mentioned. It's so difficult to make Superman vulnerable or to know how powerful he should be, but if you just buy it on an emotional level it works for you. If you didn't well it doesn't. I don't need for everything little thing in these movies to make complete sense.. because if you do, then it's hard to enjoy them for what they are, IMO. Yes Superman can hear everything or a lot, but only when the writers think it works for the plot/story they are telling. Superman the Movie has lots of plot holes, but we still love it, even though some things don't work for me anymore like Luthor and co. They are just so corny and cheesy now it hurts, but some things still hold up very well. I appreciate that in BvS they took the time to actually explain how kryptonite could hurt Superman. STM never did it. Any way, looks like BvS is not doing so good this weekend at the BO, and that makes me sad. Seems things I like a lot are not meant to continue, but only time will tell. I'm watching it again next week with my son who couldn't see it yesterday with me. He is 15 now and thinks Avengers is just ok. We at least agree on that. It's not a bad movie, but we don't get goosebumps like many seem to get with it. I just prefer the DC heroes so much more I suppose. But I respect everyone's opinion. I do agree on one thing, though.. Superman needs to smile more if there is a JL movie. Things need to change in the world so that he can feel more positive and confident. Otherwise, he won't seem to be growing. I agree.... With superhero films, it's hard to know what 'logic bumps' and plot holes are too much to swallow.... Different with each person and film. (An example, I loved Spider-Man 2, but one of my best friends has big issues with his repowering and how doc oc was defeated, took him out of the movie, I had no issues with it) Avengers had some great fanboy moments and scenes, that ere priceless IMO--- but at the same time, overall it felt like a TV movie in some ways, albeit a great tv movie overall. (the clunkiness of loki's possessing people always felt a bit cheesy to me) Because of the parameters and 'checklist' on that film to balance so many elements simultaneously, it's amazing that it's any good at all, though, I felt.
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