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Post by booshman on Dec 12, 2016 18:54:14 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 13, 2016 2:29:06 GMT -5
Wow! If this has the extended battle shots or (I hope) the deleted Donner arctic scenes in hq and letterbox- then I'd be willing to buy the vudu digital.... though I wonder if it's ONLY streaming?
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Post by booshman on Dec 13, 2016 3:07:34 GMT -5
It's available to buy in HDX to own on their site. Looking at Vudu's literature it says the movie bought to own are stored on a set top box. I assume it would be in some encrypted format that would require it to be captured using a video card.
If you have Vudu already, could you stream it to check it out?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 13, 2016 20:20:41 GMT -5
It's available to buy in HDX to own on their site. Looking at Vudu's literature it says the movie bought to own are stored on a set top box. I assume it would be in some encrypted format that would require it to be captured using a video card. If you have Vudu already, could you stream it to check it out? I purchased it on Vudu- but am having issues with the hardware that I'm trying to figure out. One thing for sure: Imdb states the RDC as 1:55, whereas Vudu puts it as 2 hours, 2 min..... so there's hope that there's SOME deleted stuff by Donner at least restored properly- but if it is, I imagine it might just be accidental due to Thau and WB releasing a 'next to last' cut. In either case, will keep all posted!
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Post by Kamdan on Dec 13, 2016 20:41:21 GMT -5
The East Houston scenes from the Lester cut are restored in this version, complete with a new dubbed voice for the kid. The soufflé scene is in this cut. I'm assuming these were cut at Donner's request, because he was very critical of these two very scenes in his commentary.
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Post by booshman on Dec 13, 2016 22:23:20 GMT -5
Does the kid sound American now?
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Post by Kamdan on Dec 14, 2016 0:53:57 GMT -5
Yes, but the line readings are horrible. Not a bit of concern when he asks Zod to put his daddy down. Also, the finger beam is removed in this version. Hope this version can somehow be archived. They might take it own when they realize this isn't the real Donner cut.
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Post by booshman on Dec 14, 2016 1:57:06 GMT -5
It's been posted on Myspleen.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 14, 2016 3:07:21 GMT -5
The East Houston scenes from the Lester cut are restored in this version, complete with a new dubbed voice for the kid. The soufflé scene is in this cut. I'm assuming these were cut at Donner's request, because he was very critical of these two very scenes in his commentary. How sad that the Donner deleted scenes (particularly the entrance to the fortress, the arctic police, and extended Lois/Supes talks) weren't the ones included in this flaw. Being a completist, awesome to have in any case. Thanks for posting this Booshman! On another note: the choices are interesting to see what might have been in Thau's head. It IS darker by allowing Zod to harm the father and Non kill the son (bizzare)- and I wonder how many reviews were based on this.... and the idea of removing the 'finger beams' but allowing Zod to levitate things was an interesting choice- as mainly the project seemed to be choosing the lesser of two evils in many cases. On the other hand- still SO badly edited in other spots!
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Post by booshman on Dec 14, 2016 3:24:18 GMT -5
The East Houston scenes from the Lester cut are restored in this version, complete with a new dubbed voice for the kid. The soufflé scene is in this cut. I'm assuming these were cut at Donner's request, because he was very critical of these two very scenes in his commentary. How sad that the Donner deleted scenes (particularly the entrance to the fortress, the arctic police, and extended Lois/Supes talks) weren't the ones included in this flaw. Being a completist, awesome to have in any case. Thanks for posting this Booshman! On another note: the choices are interesting to see what might have been in Thau's head. It IS darker by allowing Zod to harm the father and Non kill the son (bizzare)- and I wonder how many reviews were based on this.... and the idea of removing the 'finger beams' but allowing Zod to levitate things was an interesting choice- as mainly the project seemed to be choosing the lesser of two evils in many cases. On the other hand- still SO badly edited in other spots! No worries, Tyler gave me a shout about it so I thought I'd post here. It is a shame that there are more scenes, but since the ones you mentioned are on the bluray, even if they are lower quality, they could always be added in if you wanted to.
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Post by Kamdan on Dec 14, 2016 5:42:24 GMT -5
Here's a breakdown of what I've noticed so far:
There are no introductory texts explaining how this is the film Donner intended and how screen test footage was used.
The Lex and Miss Teschmacher scene in the Fortress ends differently with a less pronounced toilet flush and Teschmacher screaming.
A reaction shot of the deputy replaces Non's reaction shot of the shotgun fired at Zod's chest. A shot of the Sheriff replaces the Deputy's "Jesus H. Christ" line. The Lester version of the scene continues here within Zod throwing the gun, Non retrieving it and yanking the police siren off. Note that the new foley and ADR of this scene is pretty terrible. Non's grunts and the "Just checking the tire" lines are taken out. He does not cradle it in this version. This leads to the soufflé scene.
Then we cut back to East Houston with Non using his heat vision to the scene where Non throws the siren and kills the boy. After this, we get the establishing Fortress shot as Superman and Lois are dining.
The Lester version of Non using his heat vision on the military jeep and it crashing through the billboard is intact here.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 14, 2016 15:09:23 GMT -5
Here's a breakdown of what I've noticed so far: There are no introductory texts explaining how this is the film Donner intended and how screen test footage was used. The Lex and Miss Teschmacher scene in the Fortress ends differently with a less pronounced toilet flush and Teschmacher screaming. A reaction shot of the deputy replaces Non's reaction shot of the shotgun fired at Zod's chest. A shot of the Sheriff replaces the Deputy's "Jesus H. Christ" line. The Lester version of the scene continues here within Zod throwing the gun, Non retrieving it and yanking the police siren off. Note that the new foley and ADR of this scene is pretty terrible. Non's grunts and the "Just checking the tire" lines are taken out. He does not cradle it in this version. This leads to the soufflé scene. Then we cut back to East Houston with Non using his heat vision to the scene where Non throws the siren and kills the boy. After this, we get the establishing Fortress shot as Superman and Lois are dining. The Lester version of Non using his heat vision on the military jeep and it crashing through the billboard is intact here. The Amazon Prime version DOES have the intro texts. Weird. Will check out other differences, too. (Unfortunately, some of the bigger offenses with bad voice dubbing by Reeve impersonator is there). It's strange how Thau's choices still went from going a bit darker (as originally intended) but still keeping the Lester ridiculous at the same time. (the jeep crash, but then the guy acting like he had a headache a few seconds later) I notice the flow is a LITTLE better with the extra minutes even if it's Lester footage. Pity how it does seem less and less of a chance we'll ever get an official recut of this. But oh well...
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Post by Kamdan on Dec 14, 2016 16:55:08 GMT -5
Here's a breakdown of what I've noticed so far: There are no introductory texts explaining how this is the film Donner intended and how screen test footage was used. The Lex and Miss Teschmacher scene in the Fortress ends differently with a less pronounced toilet flush and Teschmacher screaming. A reaction shot of the deputy replaces Non's reaction shot of the shotgun fired at Zod's chest. A shot of the Sheriff replaces the Deputy's "Jesus H. Christ" line. The Lester version of the scene continues here within Zod throwing the gun, Non retrieving it and yanking the police siren off. Note that the new foley and ADR of this scene is pretty terrible. Non's grunts and the "Just checking the tire" lines are taken out. He does not cradle it in this version. This leads to the soufflé scene. Then we cut back to East Houston with Non using his heat vision to the scene where Non throws the siren and kills the boy. After this, we get the establishing Fortress shot as Superman and Lois are dining. The Lester version of Non using his heat vision on the military jeep and it crashing through the billboard is intact here. The Amazon Prime version DOES have the intro texts. Weird. Will check out other differences, too. (Unfortunately, some of the bigger offenses with bad voice dubbing by Reeve impersonator is there). It's strange how Thau's choices still went from going a bit darker (as originally intended) but still keeping the Lester ridiculous at the same time. (the jeep crash, but then the guy acting like he had a headache a few seconds later) I notice the flow is a LITTLE better with the extra minutes even if it's Lester footage. Pity how it does seem less and less of a chance we'll ever get an official recut of this. But oh well... I'm actually quite pleased with this edit of the film. The handling of the East Houston scenes was quite choppy in the initial released version of the Donner Cut and the commentary confirmed to me that Donner didn't want the killing of the boy or the soufflé scene in his cut. When I noticed the quality of both of the scenes on the special features, it got me curious as to if they had be intended to be used and cut following Donner's viewing. This new evidence tells us that's the case. It's funny how they dubbed over the boy's British accent, but kept in the woman who says, "He was only a boy!" The Restored International Cut of the film dubbed over the woman's accent. It's also a shame that there was no attempt at trying to incorporate the Artic police arrest of Luthor, as the deleted scene from the DVD/Blu-ray release is obviously from the Restored International Cut of the scene, abet in widescreen. That also tells me that there is indeed a widescreen version of that edit that I'm sure would sell if it was available on Warner Archive. Same with that workprint of Superman IV that is missing a couple of more scenes. Apparently, Jim Bowers of Caped Wonder has been aware of this issue as far back as April and Thau reportedly isn't happy that this edit has been released. I hope that by downloading this, it'll keep this version intact if they decide to take it down and replace it with the version we are all familiar with now. Big part of being a part of this community is having this stuff preserved and it wasn't far how only a portion of the Non kills the boy scene was presented in the You'll Believe documentary in a non-anamorphic format. Another addition to the Luthor in the Fortress scene is the "I wish you had not asked me that" "I didn't ask anything" exchange is included with a long shot of Miss Teschmacher walking away from the console with full figured Jor-El in front of them.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Dec 14, 2016 17:36:53 GMT -5
Hey guys!! Long time no see. Well, after years of thinking the Superman 2 journey was over, VUDU comes along and gives us some new toys to play with lol.
I'm about 40 minutes into this and I'm breaking this down for ya. I won't repeat what's been stated already, but there's more (so far):
- The opening of Lester's NASA scene is re-instated (bouncing ball giving guy a headache, other guy saying the world forgot about the astronauts on the moon)
- New takes and dialogue during the end of the Lex and Jor-el scene which has already been stated. However, here's exactly how it happens: We have basically the same exchange between Lex and Lara, NOW with Lex and Jor-el ("I wish you had not asked me that"). However, these are even new takes than the one Lester went with. As for Eve's scream upon flushing the toilet, after 35 years I guess we finally know why Eve is gone from the story from then on out. She fell victim to ol' Kal's super-toilet lol. Guess he needs a toilet with super-pressure to handle his turds of steel lol.
- The police encounter with the villains is basically the same as theatrical, with the younger officer's line of "checking the tires" omitted. Non cradles the police siren first and THEN tries to hand it to Non (a very obvious reversed shot).
- Soufflé' scene has the deleted scene music cue, NOT the music as it's heard in the RIC.
- Non testing his heat vision while the boy with the comic book watches him has a sound effect that sounds like teeth being drilled by the dentist.
- Ursa's line "He's a general" is NOT Sarah Douglas, but a bad sound-alike.
- The new line readings of the boy are both badly acted AND he sounds waay too young (the kid looks between 12-16 years old, but now sounds like he's no older than 10)
- Zod saying "No one may leave" is Stamp's actual voice (higher pitch), NOT the lower pitch dub as it's heard in the RIC. HOWEVER, when Zod snaps his fingers, Non has that look of doubt on his face initially, followed by the younger deputy close-up reaction shot, as it's seen in the RIC. However, the audio of the line readings and music is the same as the deleted scene version, NOT the RIC.
- The repeated frames of the helicopter crashing into the house are gone.
- There's now 2 takes when Superman and Lois are sleeping in bed (it fades from a close shot to a medium shot).
- General that "answers only to the President" has Lester line reading.
- Were the 2 kids saying "Superman didn't even do nothing!!" in the Donner Cut? I can't remember.
Well, that's all I noticed. Hope you guys are all doing well!!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 14, 2016 18:43:35 GMT -5
Hey guys!! Long time no see. Well, after years of thinking the Superman 2 journey was over, VUDU comes along and gives us some new toys to play with lol. I'm about 40 minutes into this and I'm breaking this down for ya. I won't repeat what's been stated already, but there's more (so far): - The opening of Lester's NASA scene is re-instated (bouncing ball giving guy a headache, other guy saying the world forgot about the astronauts on the moon) - New takes and dialogue during the end of the Lex and Jor-el scene which has already been stated. However, here's exactly how it happens: We have basically the same exchange between Lex and Lara, NOW with Lex and Jor-el ("I wish you had not asked me that"). However, these are even new takes than the one Lester went with. As for Eve's scream upon flushing the toilet, after 35 years I guess we finally know why Eve is gone from the story from then on out. She fell victim to ol' Kal's super-toilet lol. Guess he needs a toilet with super-pressure to handle his turds of steel lol. - The police encounter with the villains is basically the same as theatrical, with the younger officer's line of "checking the tires" omitted. Non cradles the police siren first and THEN tries to hand it to Non (a very obvious reversed shot). - Soufflé' scene has the deleted scene music cue, NOT the music as it's heard in the RIC. - Non testing his heat vision while the boy with the comic book watches him has a sound effect that sounds like teeth being drilled by the dentist. - Ursa's line "He's a general" is NOT Sarah Douglas, but a bad sound-alike. - The new line readings of the boy are both badly acted AND he sounds waay too young (the kid looks between 12-16 years old, but now sounds like he's no older than 10) - Zod saying "No one may leave" is Stamp's actual voice (higher pitch), NOT the lower pitch dub as it's heard in the RIC. HOWEVER, when Zod snaps his fingers, Non has that look of doubt on his face initially, followed by the younger deputy close-up reaction shot, as it's seen in the RIC. However, the audio of the line readings and music is the same as the deleted scene version, NOT the RIC. - The repeated frames of the helicopter crashing into the house are gone. - There's now 2 takes when Superman and Lois are sleeping in bed (it fades from a close shot to a medium shot). - General that "answers only to the President" has Lester line reading. - Were the 2 kids saying "Superman didn't even do nothing!!" in the Donner Cut? I can't remember. Well, that's all I noticed. Hope you guys are all doing well!! Hey Tyler! Yeah..... it's nice to have a new (although completely unintentional by WB I'm sure) to enjoy and examine... Though- it's still really shocking just how some of the REALLY editing-offensive bits were still there prior to the 'final' version. (Particularly the bad 'I'm not a coward Zod!' dub- why not just use the IRC audio if he was going to include it?) While I agree it's a slightly smoother edit- the waste of time re-doing some of the other bits (i.e. speeding up and badly music editing the Niagara Rescue scene) that could have been used for other parts is still troubling. Can't help but wonder if SR 2 and Singer had been able to increase box office (and semi-continued the Donnerverse), if we might have encouraged WB to spend a little more for a recut (Presumably the main costs would have already been spent on the first recut) for a package dvd Eh. Anyhow- yeah, time to re-examine this 'new' cut of the RDC!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 14, 2016 19:28:37 GMT -5
Saw the vudu and Amazon version: PLUSES: YES- the Brando/Lex scene I think is MUCH better by having even that 'bit' talking about the 'I wish you didn't ask me that' - maybe even it was just the shots from behind Lex in middle shot that made it LOOK like they were really in the same frame (besides the overly large profile of Jorel next to Lex and Teschmacher--- far larger than the similar shot with Supes/Jorel in the expanded 2006 STM // Lex leaving the fortress- even if the scream/implied fall by Teschmacher is a bit distracting. (Outtake/improv by Donner?) Anyone check if the Restored 2006 STM has any 'accidental' variants out there btw?
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Post by Kamdan on Dec 15, 2016 7:19:54 GMT -5
That scene is the released version. You're probably thinking of a fan edit that took it out.
Non's reaction shot and the "Jesus H. Christ" line are deleted in place of a new reaction shot from the deputy. Non never cradled the siren and I'm not sure what reversed shot you are referring to. It's the same as the theatrical. Thau also put in some bad ADR of the sheriff grunting as the car hits the ground and the siren waning down after he pulls it off.
Sounds like one of those jobs where they hired a woman to sound like a boy.
The crashing of the helicopter was notably sped up in the released version..
Yes, that's was in the released version.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2016 9:45:50 GMT -5
So this is an alternate cut of the Donner cut or a hybrid of the Donner and Lester versions? Was this official or a cut that wasn't intended to be released? It's interesting that this stuff happens but doesn't get any kind of announcment. I remember seeing a hybrid of the theatrical and directors cuts of Daredevil and had the same reaction.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Dec 15, 2016 10:04:16 GMT -5
So this is an alternate cut of the Donner cut or a hybrid of the Donner and Lester versions? Was this official or a cut that wasn't intended to be released? It's interesting that this stuff happens but doesn't get any kind of announcment. I believe this is what Michael Thau was going to give us originally until Richard Donner changed his mind and decided to get involved in the project after all. To an extent anyway. As Thau said, he was gonna keep in the memory-wipe kiss but Donner refused it. Sad to think that Donner himself was the very thing that messed up his own edit, even after he said for months that he wouldn't get involved specifically for that very reason (I'm not the same director I was back then). As for no announcement, yeah it sucks. But to be fair even when a movie is re-released, it flies under most people's radar's and they don't know until they're at the store, see a movie they like, it has a new cover (albeit a badly photoshopped onee) and go "Ooooh. Is there a new version of "...." out now? I wonder if it's better than the last release. Better buy it and see!!"
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2016 10:27:41 GMT -5
They should just release this on bluray as extended cut without Donners name on it. Toss in one of the other cuts of STM and make it a double feature. This version of II sounds like what most people wanted in the first place. Put that original ending back too or cut out turning back time part two because that just doesn't work
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 15, 2016 13:37:17 GMT -5
So this is an alternate cut of the Donner cut or a hybrid of the Donner and Lester versions? Was this official or a cut that wasn't intended to be released? It's interesting that this stuff happens but doesn't get any kind of announcment. I believe this is what Michael Thau was going to give us originally until Richard Donner changed his mind and decided to get involved in the project after all. To an extent anyway. As Thau said, he was gonna keep in the memory-wipe kiss but Donner refused it. Sad to think that Donner himself was the very thing that messed up his own edit, even after he said for months that he wouldn't get involved specifically for that very reason (I'm not the same director I was back then). As for no announcement, yeah it sucks. But to be fair even when a movie is re-released, it flies under most people's radar's and they don't know until they're at the store, see a movie they like, it has a new cover (albeit a badly photoshopped onee) and go "Ooooh. Is there a new version of "...." out now? I wonder if it's better than the last release. Better buy it and see!!" There's still quite a few clunker edit decisions in there, I think, that doesn't totally absolve Thau of poor judgement.... with either unnecessary changes that made things even worse or deletions. What's weird is how VIOLENT this version is and/or suggests. The kid gets killed. It's suggested that Teschmacher is killed by the kryptonian toilet? The priorities on the cut still seem strange, but I'm glad that at least the 'whole' Brando/Lex scene is intact.
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Post by Kamdan on Dec 15, 2016 14:55:07 GMT -5
Don't forget that Thau left Luthor in the Fortress when Superman destroyed it.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 15, 2016 15:38:41 GMT -5
So, after 10 years, is there a verdict about who is to blame for the Donner Cut being such crap?
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Post by booshman on Dec 15, 2016 19:46:51 GMT -5
Apparently, Jim Bowers of Caped Wonder has been aware of this issue as far back as April and Thau reportedly isn't happy that this edit has been released. Where did you hear that? So, after 10 years, is there a verdict about who is to blame for the Donner Cut being such crap? I'd say WB for not putting the money and time into it that it needed. You give the project to Thau with no real ability to pull it off, then give him no money and a tight deadline, and then ask an aged Donner (with a totally different perspective due to the time passed since he was on the project), to sign off on it. It was handicapped from the get go.
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Post by Kamdan on Dec 16, 2016 5:30:58 GMT -5
Facebook.
It's a shame this wasn't given the Blade Runner Final Cut treatment, but look at how long that took to get to that point. The Director's Cut released in the 90's was a hasty effort that fans had to live with for a long while until it was treated correctly.
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