|
Post by Kamdan on Dec 31, 2016 7:54:53 GMT -5
I never understood the anicdote Donner and Mankiewicz shared on their commentaries that Reeve wanted to deliver that line to Brando himself. Seemed that dubbing Jeff East was an afterthought when post-production was in effect, as indicated by the TV version containing East's voice for scenes not in the theatrical. They say he did this so he had the chance to work with Brando, but one of his first scenes filmed was with Brando for the repowering scene. I'm sure it's a case of misremembering details, but forgetting details like that can make your credibility skip a bit.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by atp on Dec 31, 2016 11:25:17 GMT -5
Why were all the scenes with Reeve and Brando so poorly acted in the Donner cut?
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,843
|
Post by Metallo on Dec 31, 2016 12:52:18 GMT -5
I never understood the anicdote Donner and Mankiewicz shared on their commentaries that Reeve wanted to deliver that line to Brando himself. Seemed that dubbing Jeff East was an afterthought when post-production was in effect, as indicated by the TV version containing East's voice for scenes not in the theatrical. They say he did this so he had the chance to work with Brando, but one of his first scenes filmed was with Brando for the repowering scene. I'm sure it's a case of misremembering details, but forgetting details like that can make your credibility skip a bit. That's a good question. I have no idea what he filmed first (and as you said the dubbing would be later on...maybe he read the line to Brando off camera when he was shooting the jor-el hologram material) but as far as STM that would have been his first on screen "acting" or line reading with Brando that people saw so maybe he wanted it to have the best execution and impact. Reeve's line readings had dramatic affects on the scenes and I've always said it's interesting to see his process and how his performances evolved from screen tests to shooting and then reshooting certain scenes. I agree with ATP in that I prefer his performance in the Lester version of II when a depowered Clark goes back to the fortress asking for Jor-Els guidance and help. Somehow it seemed more natural. Maybe he wanted to work with Brando MORE or it was Reeves one chance to actually "act" in the same room with him. If my memory's right Reeve and Brando didn't share any actual in person screen time together AND exchang dialogue. Brandos dialogue and image as a hologram are put in later in the fortress scenes and with the repowering Brando is the only one who says anything ("my son..."). Reeve's "who am I" may have been the one chance to actually have an exchange with Brando in person. There weren't really many if any other opportunities.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 18, 2017 18:17:29 GMT -5
I never understood the anicdote Donner and Mankiewicz shared on their commentaries that Reeve wanted to deliver that line to Brando himself. Seemed that dubbing Jeff East was an afterthought when post-production was in effect, as indicated by the TV version containing East's voice for scenes not in the theatrical. They say he did this so he had the chance to work with Brando, but one of his first scenes filmed was with Brando for the repowering scene. I'm sure it's a case of misremembering details, but forgetting details like that can make your credibility skip a bit. That's a good question. I have no idea what he filmed first (and as you said the dubbing would be later on...maybe he read the line to Brando off camera when he was shooting the jor-el hologram material) but as far as STM that would have been his first on screen "acting" or line reading with Brando that people saw so maybe he wanted it to have the best execution and impact. Reeve's line readings had dramatic affects on the scenes and I've always said it's interesting to see his process and how his performances evolved from screen tests to shooting and then reshooting certain scenes. I agree with ATP in that I prefer his performance in the Lester version of II when a depowered Clark goes back to the fortress asking for Jor-Els guidance and help. Somehow it seemed more natural. Maybe he wanted to work with Brando MORE or it was Reeves one chance to actually "act" in the same room with him. If my memory's right Reeve and Brando didn't share any actual in person screen time together AND exchang dialogue. Brandos dialogue and image as a hologram are put in later in the fortress scenes and with the repowering Brando is the only one who says anything ("my son..."). Reeve's "who am I" may have been the one chance to actually have an exchange with Brando in person. There weren't really many if any other opportunities. There's a couple of things that feel 'off' with what we saw in the RDC with the repowering. First off: #1: Donner's history of films (including STM) have had flawless performances, but there's no such thing (I believe) as flawless takes. #2: Mank's script had that 'mini-speech' talking about how regretful Clark was about leaving the world in the hands of his enemies.... (I'd read the script before seeing the RDC)- but I envisioned it performed as a slow, sad regret.... not a 'faster faster' performance. Mumbling these words fast seems/seemed weird. Donner reportedly always did multple takes. Would have loved to see if there was a 'slower' line reading that would have made sense. Going straight from getting to the crystals, kicking them around, and going into the monologue always looked weird. Was it Donner's mandate to Thau to choose 'faster faster' takes that doomed this? #3: The actual interaction between Clark and Jor-el also seemed stilted timewise, and I wonder if that was a mismatch performancewise or editing. It's fine with the depowering (for the mostpart), but the repowering conversation seems awkward. Brando's seemigly tired in his performance and slow. Reeve's reactions are edited in a way that seems to hit one flat note after another- but in the script, Jor-el is yellling at Clark and being slightly out of character in a moment. Either way, there seems like a mismatch of performances there that didn't exist in the depowering. Anyhow.... if (and it probably won't ever happen again) there's no new recut ever, then it'd be nice to see more of the outtakes and alternate takes used in these scenes.
|
|