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Post by EnriqueH on Mar 3, 2017 19:59:19 GMT -5
Not the Man of Steel one, guess which version?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 4, 2017 12:37:31 GMT -5
DAMMIT ENRIQUE! You beat me to it. Was just about to post this.
How was Logan? May go see it tonight.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 6, 2017 5:59:16 GMT -5
Yeah......good to see.
And in my opinion it's something that has got lost on modern Superhero flicks(Marvel or DC).
The dual identity factor and it's effect on how the protagonist interacts with the environment around him/her. Even Slater's Supergirl had better dual identity scenarios than the modern bunch.
Now you just get lazy slosh like "suit up" without any real distinction between the disguise and it's alter ego.
Raimi's Spiderman was the last to really emphasize this aspect with any depth IMHO.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 6, 2017 14:23:24 GMT -5
Yeah......good to see. And in my opinion it's something that has got lost on modern Superhero flicks(Marvel or DC). The dual identity factor and it's effect on how the protagonist interacts with the environment around him/her. Even Slater's Supergirl had better dual identity scenarios than the modern bunch. Now you just get lazy slosh like "suit up" without any real distinction between the disguise and it's alter ego. Raimi's Spiderman was the last to really emphasize this aspect with any depth IMHO. I'm glad that the crowd I saw this with ate it up and got it.... the younger ones, I doubt would have gotten the phone booth and Williams music reference.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 6, 2017 17:29:35 GMT -5
You should post a review of Logan, CAM.
I miss the suit up scenes in the Snyder verse. I guess I thinks they're silly. Big shock. Even Nolan put one in Batman begins because he knew it was a sort of staple.
I also guess it's hard to even fake or believe Superman could wear that bulky overpadded monstrosity under his clothes and the new Batsuit looks like it would take forever to get into.
It's armor...that kinda fakes that it's not? At least the other batsuits clearly were presented as solid armor pieces.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 6, 2017 18:15:05 GMT -5
You should post a review of Logan, CAM. I miss the suit up scenes in the Snyder verse. I guess I thinks they're silly. Big shock. Even Nolan put one in Batman begins because he knew it was a sort of staple. I also guess it's hard to even fake or believe Superman could wear that bulky overpadded monstrosity under his clothes and the new Batsuit looks like it would take forever to get into. It's armor...that kinda fakes that it's not? At least the other batsuits clearly were presented as solid armor pieces. There was one reviewer that just NAILED everything I thought about "Logan", I think I'd feel better sharing that link once I find it. Bottom line, I loved it. It made up for the vomit-inducing racist "Wolverine 2" movie that Mangold directed.... sortof. In any case, Logan was much more powerful in its choices than I expected. My only real criticism is that there were points that didn't have to go 'total bloodbath' and have some more ,moments/rays of light in it, but this worked far more than I expected it to. The kid steals the show.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 6, 2017 19:38:05 GMT -5
Now I wanna read your thoughts on Mangolds The Wolverine! I mostly liked that movie but it kinda falls apart in the third act. The Silver Samurai was a total bust. Like something out of X-Men Origins bad. Felt like the studio wanted to rehash the end of a lot of recent superhero movies like iron man with a big mech suit/robot to fight. So disappointed with that.
Liked the flashback to WWII BUT old man Yashida shouldn't have been the bad guy. Shingen should have been the man bad guy with a classic Silver Samurai as his second. He should have been a normal sized mutant man in Silver plated adamantium armor. Not sure how they could have kept the plot point with the grandfather that way but maybe he dies like in the movie and it goes in a different direction from there with Shingen trying to take the company from Mariko. They just f*cked the whole Japan story. Imo its an ok movie that was this close to being a good one that falls apart by going for some cliches.
This is why I think the series should reboot after Logan. You might be able to confirm or deny this but in so many ways it's a great film to end things on but also paints them in a corner with future movies set in the foX-men Singerverse.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 6, 2017 20:06:06 GMT -5
Now I wanna read your thoughts on Mangolds The Wolverine! I mostly liked that movie but it kinda falls apart in the third act. The Silver Samurai was a total bust. Like something out of X-Men Origins bad. Felt like the studio wanted to rehash the end of a lot of recent superhero movies like iron man with a big mech suit/robot to fight. So disappointed with that. Liked the flashback to WWII BUT old man Yashida shouldn't have been the bad guy. Shingen should have been the man bad guy with a classic Silver Samurai as his second. He should have been a normal sized mutant man in Silver plated adamantium armor. Not sure how they could have kept the plot point with the grandfather that way but maybe he dies like in the movie and it goes in a different direction from there with Shingen trying to take the company from Mariko. They just f*cked the whole Japan story. Imo its an ok movie that was this close to being a good one that falls apart by going for some cliches. This is why I think the series should reboot after Logan. You might be able to confirm or deny this but in so many ways it's a great film to end things on but also paints them in a corner with future movies set in the foX-men Singerverse. Basic problems to Wolverine 2: 1. Story overly complicated 2. Mostly unlikeable characters (only really enjoyed the actress who played Yukio) 3. Meh to boring action 4. For a romance, ZERO chemistry between Mariko and Wolverine. Personal irritation: EVERY SINGLE MALE ASIAN = UNINTERESTING AND UNREDEEMABLE BAD GUY EVERY SINGLE FEMALE ASIAN = MADLY IN LOVE WITH LOGAN and "Good"
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 6, 2017 21:11:41 GMT -5
Lol. Gotta say I agree with all that. Most of the Asian characters were predictable. Loved the girl who played Yukio too. She went on to play Katana on Arrow. Also liked the girl who played Mariko but yeah she and Jackman had like zero romantic chemistry. She played Mercy Graves in BVS in a pretty thankless worthless role.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 7, 2017 23:56:42 GMT -5
Lol. Gotta say I agree with all that. Most of the Asian characters were predictable. Loved the girl who played Yukio too. She went on to play Katana on Arrow. Also liked the girl who played Mariko but yeah she and Jackman had like zero romantic chemistry. She played Mercy Graves in BVS in a pretty thankless worthless role. It boggles my mind that Wolverine 2 is considered far superior to Wolverine: Origins. There's stuff I like (and dislike) in both, but I always thought that Origins had the much harder job of being a (forced by the studio head) prequel and give it more credit for how difficult the task was--- (Much like I give Star Trek: Generations tons of extra credit for all the requirements thrust on that film, too) The girl who played Yukio unfortunately seemed pretty flat as Katana on Arrow. The girl who played Mariko was so boring that I would have rather she was replaced by an inflatable doll, to be honest (at least it would have had some humor if nothing else).
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 8, 2017 9:16:36 GMT -5
I don't blame Gavin Hood at all. The blame falls squarely on Tom Rothman and to a lesser extent Lauren Shuler Donner. I never felt she really "got" the X-men and Rothman is just a cancer. It's clear from the deleted scenes where the studio reshoots began and that Hood made a better film than what we got. For one thing he had Wolverines memories being erased the same way Bucky Barnes mind was wiped in The Winter Soldier. None of that adamantium bullet to the brain bullsh!t. All that said...Origins is just a horrible horrible movie. Bad acting all around (even from Jackman sometimes) MORE studio intereference, pointless ruining of characters. I hated what they did to Silver Samurai in The Wolverine but I hated what they did to Deadpool in Origins even more. Why is Emma Frost Kayla Silverfox's sister? I can't imagine Rothman personally said hey let's make Emma Frost Silverfox's sister. Rothman probably pushed for things like bigger set pieces and action over story. Shows Shuler-Donner and the writers threw characters in there with no regard for the future or if into would make any sense. Origins has good things in it but the crappy parts are the apex of bad movie making. Even though Origins had a bigger budget than The Wolverine the special effects look worse. Even simple things. The laughable cgi claws. Bad green screen and compositing. Patrick Stewart's cameo at the end just looked embarrassing. I don't know wether to start with the fake looking background or the bad cgi de aging. The Wolverine has its flaws but it feels more like one complete directors vision and looks competently made on a technical level. There are times Origins looks like a bad fan film. I'd give them the excuse of rushing but they had three years after The Last Stand.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 8, 2017 12:05:53 GMT -5
I don't blame Gavin Hood at all. The blame falls squarely on Tom Rothman and to a lesser extent Lauren Shuler Donner. I never felt she really "got" the X-men and Rothman is just a cancer. It's clear from the deleted scenes where the studio reshoots began and that Hood made a better film than what we got. For one thing he had Wolverines memories being erased the same way Bucky Barnes mind was wiped in The Winter Soldier. None of that adamantium bullet to the brain bullsh!t. All that said...Origins is just a horrible horrible movie. Bad acting all around (even from Jackman sometimes) MORE studio intereference, pointless ruining of characters. I hated what they did to Silver Samurai in The Wolverine but I hated what they did to Deadpool in Origins even more. Why is Emma Frost Kayla Silverfox's sister? I can't imagine Rothman personally said hey let's make Emma Frost Silverfox's sister. Rothman probably pushed for things like bigger set pieces and action over story. Shows Shuler-Donner and the writers threw characters in there with no regard for the future or if into would make any sense. Origins has good things in it but the crappy parts are the apex of bad movie making. Even though Origins had a bigger budget than The Wolverine the special effects look worse. Even simple things. The laughable cgi claws. Bad green screen and compositing. Patrick Stewart's cameo at the end just looked embarrassing. I don't know wether to start with the fake looking background or the bad cgi de aging. The Wolverine has its flaws but it feels more like one complete directors vision and looks competently made on a technical level. There are times Origins looks like a bad fan film. I'd give them the excuse of rushing but they had three years after The Last Stand. I look at Origins from a writing point of view and acknowledged the difficulty of: #1: Setting up that he loses his memory at the end #2: Somehow has to have an interesting arc #3: Has to explain all of the Stryker backstory #4: Has to explain Sabertooth and yet make it (kindof) fit fitting into X1 I thought the acting was nowhere as bad as most Zack Snyder films. The original David BEinoff script is actually available on the web, I still have yet to read through the whole thing, but want to- I can't imagine Beinoff from Game of Thrones turning in a hack job- But all the bizzarro inclusions (Silverfox, Emma Frost, Gambit) that were half-hazard I agree weren't well executed at all. The actress who would play Dejah Thoris, though..... I thought she was great, but thought that they should have made her human and not a mutant- making the betrayal worse (being the only human he trusts) and that there's a key moment where he 'implodes' when he hears of the betrayal--- rather than go into beserker mode- and tear things up when he finds out that she betrayed him- but I can see how the studio/ filmmakers might have seen that as turning Wolverine into a potentially dangerous abusive guy rather than a hero. Anyhow- with two Wolverine movies being 'not so great'- it's nice that out of the ten (wow) Wolverine films (counting X-men ones) that we got ultimately more good films than bad ones out of them. I'm still amazed that the 'reboot' with X-men: First Class was able to revive (at least for two films and now maybe one more) the X-men group movie series. I know it wasn't a major hit- so XDOFP getting greenlit- to me- is a minor miracle.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 8, 2017 12:42:57 GMT -5
With FC I think Fox saw the potential after such good critical reception. They had to know the next movie using Wolverine in a bigger role again and combining the original cast with the FC cast would get a lot more attention and anticipation. When wolverine and the X-men are in seperate movies they don't do as well as movies where Wolverine is part of the team.
All three solo Wolverine movie have popular comic book stories (Weapon X story and Origins story, the Japan story, and Old Man Logan as their foundation. The first two movies blew it with some great source material. Origins hurdles weren't really any more than most other superhero origin movies or prequels. If anything strong source material to start from gave them an advantage. The problems crept in with the studio bs. I give Hood a pass on that but not the film itself. It's just a poor movie imo.
Star Trek Generations gets more of a pass from me with the tight production schedule. They were still filming TNG when Generations started filming. That really is a case where the film had a lot going against it besides poor creative decisions.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 8, 2017 14:43:04 GMT -5
With FC I think Fox saw the potential after such good critical reception. They had to know the next movie using Wolverine in a bigger role again and combining the original cast with the FC cast would get a lot more attention and anticipation. When wolverine and the X-men are in seperate movies they don't do as well as movies where Wolverine is part of the team. All three solo Wolverine movie have popular comic book stories (Weapon X story and Origins story, the Japan story, and Old Man Logan as their foundation. The first two movies blew it with some great source material. Origins hurdles weren't really any more than most other superhero origin movies or prequels. If anything strong source material to start from gave them an advantage. The problems crept in with the studio bs. I give Hood a pass on that but not the film itself. It's just a poor movie imo. Star Trek Generations gets more of a pass from me with the tight production schedule. They were still filming TNG when Generations started filming. That really is a case where the film had a lot going against it besides poor creative decisions. I think it's awesome that Singer mentioned that he DID have the joining of the two casts together ahead of time- (though personally I would have liked to have seen a 'solo' movie with the First Class cast prior to DOFP, but beggars can't be choosers). Trek: Generations has a lot of great parts in it to me (although the second death of Kirk was a disaster)- but the commentary by the writers is one of the best, and they themselves mentioned how writing BOTH the finale to TNG and the movie at the same time was a giant crush. Pity that Berman didn't just use the script in TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise" for the movie and used both casts and modified it for the 'crossover movie' --- who cares if it already aired, the pluses would have outweighed the minuses imo.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 8, 2017 22:32:15 GMT -5
Generations is a decent movie. It didn't live up to hype but it's not bad. Certainly doesn't deserve to get lumped in with the lesser Trek movies. Like you said it does have some great parts. Has some strong themes that reminds me of TWOK. Soran could have been one of the great Trek bad guys but the writing wasn't there.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 9, 2017 12:25:37 GMT -5
Generations is a decent movie. It didn't live up to hype but it's not bad. Certainly doesn't deserve to get lumped in with the lesser Trek movies. Like you said it does have some great parts. Has some strong themes that reminds me of TWOK. Soran could have been one of the great Trek bad guys but the writing wasn't there. The last act I think is what suffers the most, even with it being rewritten. And Kirk really should have been open to a little bit of liposuction. It was really getting ridiculous.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 9, 2017 13:10:32 GMT -5
You'd think with his ego the Shat would have wanted to get into better shape for his last go around as Kirk. He still looked ok in Star Trek V but by VI he would have been more concerned about uniform belts instead of asteroid belts.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 13, 2017 10:26:05 GMT -5
In general it's a bit of a suprise that he hasn't kept fit for an actor that's as active as he is.
Not crazy about his behavior (as reported by too many other sources), but it's hard not to give him props for staying active non-stop, whereas others might have (and have) withdrawn and disappeared when failures came up. He seems to keep on going, and going, and going... that part is inspirational.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 13, 2017 10:44:47 GMT -5
Enrique said the same thing once and you're both right. He might look like a stuffed sausage but he really is sharp for his age and has the energy of a man at least 20 years younger. You wouldn't think he is in his mid 80s. Good genes I guess. It's a shame Trek hasn't done something to use him on screen for the last 20 + years even if it was as Kirks father or grandfather. They almost waited too long to bring Nimoy back. Even Voyager got one last story out of Takei.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 13, 2017 21:14:59 GMT -5
Enrique said the same thing once and you're both right. He might look like a stuffed sausage but he really is sharp for his age and has the energy of a man at least 20 years younger. You wouldn't think he is in his mid 80s. Good genes I guess. It's a shame Trek hasn't done something to use him on screen for the last 20 + years even if it was as Kirks father or grandfather. They almost waited too long to bring Nimoy back. Even Voyager got one last story out of Takei. I'd read that Trek 2009 tried to get Shatner included at the end by having Spock share a hologram of Kirk giving a birthday greeting to Spock or such to younger Spock somewhere- sounded neat, but that Shatner thought the part too small.
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