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Post by stargazer0118 on Mar 27, 2017 1:22:52 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 27, 2017 2:38:16 GMT -5
It could be fun, but the problem is that it's just hard to NOT compare it to Marvel's projects up to this date.
I admit that I did have the 'wow' factor in seeing Wonder Woman with Batman and Superman for the BvS trailer- but I think the roster doesn't elicit as much excitement- both the Flash and Cyborg costumes feel OVER designed, and not an improvement over the comics. If the tv Flash and Arrow showed up (or better yet- Supergirl) in that trailer, then I think that 'wow' factor may have come in.
Or... maybe it's just that Aquaman, an alternate version of Flash, and Cyborg aren't quite as interesting characters to me as Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Vision, Black Widow, or Hawkeye.
Not trying to be a downer- I will go see this during the first week and I hope it's good, but the trailer just leaves me as 'meh' right now. I think if we had gotten Bale back as Batman or Routh back as Supes, that also might have juiced up my anticipation.
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Post by stargazer0118 on Mar 27, 2017 18:47:44 GMT -5
Well I love Man of Steel and BvS. SS was ok/fun. I'm really a big fan of this universe, and I love the Justice League characters a lot. I grew up with them. They are my heroes, especially Supes.
Avengers are ok but I'm not a big fan. For me this trailer feels exactly what I wanted for JL; more adventurous and fun while still dark and epic. My heroes never looked better!!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 29, 2017 16:07:29 GMT -5
Well I love Man of Steel and BvS. SS was ok/fun. I'm really a big fan of this universe, and I love the Justice League characters a lot. I grew up with them. They are my heroes, especially Supes. Avengers are ok but I'm not a big fan. For me this trailer feels exactly what I wanted for JL; more adventurous and fun while still dark and epic. My heroes never looked better!! I think if it were Routh and Bale in the mix, I might be more excited. I just think that Marvel Studios, Richard Donner, Chris Nolan, Sam Raimi, and Bryan Singer spoiled me on superhero adaptations. MOS I have issues with. I think moreso after seeing SR again recently. Still, I'll watch almost any superhero film in the theatres. I don't get why Aquaman can't be blonde and Hollywood STILL feels a need to change things SO much from the comics. But, I'll hope for the best, just low expectations....
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 29, 2017 19:57:25 GMT -5
To me it looks more like Snyders usual crap only it's trying to add some Marvel Studios style touches. Aquaman was a highlight but I agree with Cam it's too bad they're ashamed of him. He's more like Conan meets Drax.
Flash looks like them trying an MCU style comic relief character like Spidey and they're even along the Peter/Tony relashionship.
Worst of all it's WB once again trying to catch up with Marvel only they're once again cramming twice as much world building in there because they have no patience. We get Gordon Mera Henry Allen (even though it was just done far more in depth on tv) and whatever else I'm getting all crammed into one movie when that time could be devoted to more important things like the Leagers themselves. Does anyone give a f*** about Steppenwolf as the big bad? At least with Loki they set up who he was in a whole movie before Avengers. In typical WB fashion our first look at Steppenwolf was in a minute long deleted scene that got posted on the internet and wasn't even in the theatrical cut. Talk about taking shortcuts.
The JLA was never about some dark gritty style trying to be cool. They were THE light in the darkness. The gold standard of heroes. Not the cold blue tint. Supergirl and the Arrowverse are doing "justice" by DC and its history in a way Simple Zack never has. Just give Berlanti the movie verse to redo once this half a$$ed version reboots which will probably be sooner rather than later.
This REALLY makes me appreciate Logan even more.
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Post by stargazer0118 on Mar 29, 2017 22:54:02 GMT -5
Kingdom Come is not light. Some of the best stories in the comics are tragic. Any way, to each their own, but I love what I see. Marvel didn't invest fun. DC has been fun before.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 30, 2017 1:51:55 GMT -5
Kingdom Come is not light. Some of the best stories in the comics are tragic. Any way, to each their own, but I love what I see. Marvel didn't invest fun. DC has been fun before. I don't mind if WB/DC deliberately chooses a darker path... (I thought SR was perceived as dark, definitely Dark Knight was, well, dark) but if so, I still want the drama to be done well if so. With SR, Batman Begins, and Dark Knight I thought it was. With MOS and BvS- I liked them in parts, but thought there were issues. With Suicide Squad, I could see some potential for a good movie, but was ultimately disappointed by its pointlessness. I may sound negative, but I am rooting for DC to succeed and up their game. They can be dark as far as I'm concerned- but the drama has to be great and the story has to justify the tone, imo. If they're throwing tons of money at it, I just think it's ok to be tougher on superhero films as it's hard to say how long the films are going to have easy greenlights from the studios.
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Post by booshman on Mar 30, 2017 9:10:59 GMT -5
Just saw the trailer and I think it looks like utter crap. I'm not even sure I'll bother going to this one. I missed SS at the flicks due to it not being released here and I didn't really care for it when I saw it later. So much in this trailer looks really fake, Cyborg being one of the worst offenders. The blend of CG with the actor hasn't gone well, and he looks like a mash up of Dead Shot and a Silverhawk. I have no clue what they think they have done to the bat suit either. In BvS I really liked the suit, this looks more like Night Owl from Watchmen.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 30, 2017 10:47:39 GMT -5
Kingdom Come is not light. Some of the best stories in the comics are tragic. Any way, to each their own, but I love what I see. Marvel didn't invest fun. DC has been fun before. Exactly. Marvel didn't invent fun. DC was doing that first. It's a shame they're ashamed of all that history now and want to ape The Dark Knight. Visually speaking Alex Ross's art for Kingdom Come looks nothing like Zack Snyders movies. Kingdom Come was far more traditional looking color wise. Very lush and bold not desaturated. Tonally Kingdom Come is serious but it's not trying to be edgy or cool like Snyders stuff. The whole point of that story is it's a CRITICISM of grim and gritty comics that Snyder loves. The new heroes like Magog have turned the world to crap and the old guard like Superman come back to fix it. There's a reason Kingdom comes writer, Mark Waid, hated Man of Steel. The younger more violent heroes of Kingdom Come would fit in fine with Snyders movies but the whole point of Kingdom Come was that their way of doing things was wrong. Snyder doesn't get that.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 30, 2017 10:53:57 GMT -5
Just saw the trailer and I think it looks like utter crap. I'm not even sure I'll bother going to this one. I missed SS at the flicks due to it not being released here and I didn't really care for it when I saw it later. So much in this trailer looks really fake, Cyborg being one of the worst offenders. The blend of CG with the actor hasn't gone well, and he looks like a mash up of Dead Shot and a Silverhawk. I have no clue what they think they have done to the bat suit either. In BvS I really liked the suit, this looks more like Night Owl from Watchmen. Cyborg looks like utter sh!t. The problem (one of them) with Snyder is his films are so cgi heavy he has to make it all look like cgi even when it's not just to make it all blend together. None of it looks or feels real. Justice League will open big but if it's not any good it's gonna do worse than BVS because a lot of people already felt burned by that movie and are wary of JL. It happened after Star Trek Into Darkness and Turtles out of the shadows too. First movie did well but once people saw what it was all about they skipped the second film. The DCEU is in deep sh!t if that happens..
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 2, 2017 15:41:40 GMT -5
Just saw the trailer and I think it looks like utter crap. I'm not even sure I'll bother going to this one. I missed SS at the flicks due to it not being released here and I didn't really care for it when I saw it later. So much in this trailer looks really fake, Cyborg being one of the worst offenders. The blend of CG with the actor hasn't gone well, and he looks like a mash up of Dead Shot and a Silverhawk. I have no clue what they think they have done to the bat suit either. In BvS I really liked the suit, this looks more like Night Owl from Watchmen. Cyborg looks like utter sh!t. The problem (one of them) with Snyder is his films are so cgi heavy he has to make it all look like cgi even when it's not just to make it all blend together. None of it looks or feels real. Justice League will open big but if it's not any good it's gonna do worse than BVS because a lot of people already felt burned by that movie and are wary of JL. It happened after Star Trek Into Darkness and Turtles out of the shadows too. First movie did well but once people saw what it was all about they skipped the second film. The DCEU is in deep sh!t if that happens.. On the plus side, a friend who worked with the director of Wonder Woman shared with me that at least the rough cut is a good movie. Hope the final cut is good, at least.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 2, 2017 17:13:52 GMT -5
I think they might have something at least decent with Wonder Woman. Patty Jenkins is a good director. Jury is still out on Gadot but I think Jenkins will do her best to work around it. I think this movie will live or die by the editing. There's good stuff in there they just have to present it right.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 2, 2017 17:39:26 GMT -5
I think they might have something at least decent with Wonder Woman. Patty Jenkins is a good director. Jury is still out on Gadot but I think Jenkins will do her best to work around it. I think this movie will live or die by the editing. There's good stuff in there they just have to present it right. I agree. I always say that the success of the Spiderman movies is that you could remove the superhero stuff- and you'd still have a solid drama (with the Raimi ones= at least 1 and 2). With BvS- nope. Same with MOS and Watchmen. I don't expect a masterpiece, but would be awesome if it has the same level of ambition that Donner had for Superman.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 7, 2017 16:24:31 GMT -5
Snyders superhero movies are usually mostly cgi action with little character stuff. No life. The little that is there is dour.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 9, 2017 14:46:49 GMT -5
Snyders superhero movies are usually mostly cgi action with little character stuff. No life. The little that is there is dour. To me, the performances don't ring true. The best stuff so far has almost always been with voiceover in Snyder's resume to me. He's capable of fantastic visuals, but his sense of story and drama is skewed badly.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 9, 2017 17:01:43 GMT -5
He has trouble expressing himself verbally and emotionally so it's no surprise he can't get it out of anyone else. He's not the first director to focus on the visuals and leave the actors to figure it out themselves but anyone who does that has to be brilliant at what they do and he's not. He's a talented visualist but he's not a master like Kubrick or Cameron or Scott.
Snyder casts on looks. You look at Marvel and they cast on talent. Snyders actors look great but most of his lead heroes are mannequins. The Marvel actors don't match the physical stats but they bring the heart. with WBs sh!t scripts and a manchild director more concerned with what looks cool the actors are like kids lost in the woods.
Suicide Squad is structurally a bigger mess than BVS but it's more fun and that is what helps it get by where BVS doesn't. The characters have some personality despite it being a awkwardly stitched together film. Superman's suffering isn't what makes him relatable. It's his personality. It's his everyday struggles. He's nigh a god but how's he gonna scratch up the money to pay off the Kent farm before forclosure? That's how you make him relatable. Not by making him some impossibly good looking dude with a good looking reporter girlfriend who mopes around feeling sorry for himself. Make him the guy who wished the girl would have talked to him in high school like in Superman III. Let him have a good laugh.
Never understood the people who felt Superman had to be an angry badass to be relatable. Life is full of a lot different moments and emotions. Not just the bad ones. It's like people are so jaded now no one can just be a decent person.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 10, 2017 20:53:59 GMT -5
He has trouble expressing himself verbally and emotionally so it's no surprise he can't get it out of anyone else. He's not the first director to focus on the visuals and leave the actors to figure it out themselves but anyone who does that has to be brilliant at what they do and he's not. He's a talented visualist but he's not a master like Kubrick or Cameron or Scott. Snyder casts on looks. You look at Marvel and they cast on talent. Snyders actors look great but most of his lead heroes are mannequins. The Marvel actors don't match the physical stats but they bring the heart. with WBs sh!t scripts and a manchild director more concerned with what looks cool the actors are like kids lost in the woods. Suicide Squad is structurally a bigger mess than BVS but it's more fun and that is what helps it get by where BVS doesn't. The characters have some personality despite it being a awkwardly stitched together film. Superman's suffering isn't what makes him relatable. It's his personality. It's his everyday struggles. He's nigh a god but how's he gonna scratch up the money to pay off the Kent farm before forclosure? That's how you make him relatable. Not by making him some impossibly good looking dude with a good looking reporter girlfriend who mopes around feeling sorry for himself. Make him the guy who wished the girl would have talked to him in high school like in Superman III. Let him have a good laugh. Never understood the people who felt Superman had to be an angry badass to be relatable. Life is full of a lot different moments and emotions. Not just the bad ones. It's like people are so jaded now no one can just be a decent person. It's weird.... I've seen Bryan Singer onstage at Comicon twice, and in interviews he's not the most articulate guy, but he definitely has good performances consistently on his films (at least MOST of the time)--- so I give Snyder a pass on how he communicates in real life, as long as he can get the actors to do well onscreen. To me, I think it really is Snyder not having good story sense. He had great material for Watchmen, but it only looked good, for the most part. With "Sucker Punch", there were some great action scenes, but it was painful to watch something just so badly written and conceived. Snyder can shoot great trailers.... but then again, so can Michael Bay. For "Man of Steel" I blame Goyer perhaps even more than Snyder. Goyer said ON CAMERA when doing interviews for Batman Begins that he never 'got' Superman and wasn't the right scriptwriter for it. Many might criticize the screenwriters of SR, but they got his heart and spirit right imo. Whether it was just because they fully intended to make it in the spirit of Donner, it doesn't matter to me. Some felt the kid killed the character, but to me MOS has Superman as Dr. Manhattan or Mr.Spock. A step apart from people. And it's just incorrect imo.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 11, 2017 13:22:00 GMT -5
Singer just seems to get nervous in front of large crowds. That's understandable. He does know how to express himself in front of a camera or on set or in print interviews. Snyder can't do any of that. His appearance on the tonight show was cringeworthy. It's like Snyders got the mentality of a 15 year old dudebro.
If he can't express his thoughts it's no wonder his actors are so lost when not doing action scenes. And even if he could express himself his priorities seem be be more on action than drama. Singers problem is he's very intellectual and knows how to present subtext but can't do action or flare as well. Nolan is very clinical and precise but can't grasp passion. Snyder is visual/action oriented but doesn't do characters or story very well.
Goyers a smug little man whose not as talented as he thinks he is but presents himself as a guy who has all the answers. His talent is selling himself to WB not the writing. They bought his bag of bs and continue to do so. He has some good ideas but can't put together a proper screenplay without help. He clings to and rehashes stuff that other people helped him perfect. Norrington helped him realize the more plausible real worldness of blade so he brought that to Batman begins. Nolan helped him with the grounded non linear storytelling so he tried to rehash that with man of Steel.
Even in comics when he and Geoff Johns worked together who really was the better writer and who did the heavy lifting? Johns has had a lot more overall success any way you slice it. Not a coincidence.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 11, 2017 19:47:34 GMT -5
Singer just seems to get nervous in front of large crowds. That's understandable. He does know how to express himself in front of a camera or on set or in print interviews. Snyder can't do any of that. His appearance on the tonight show was cringeworthy. It's like Snyders got the mentality of a 15 year old dudebro. If he can't express his thoughts it's no wonder his actors are so lost when not doing action scenes. And even if he could express himself his priorities seem be be more on action than drama. Singers problem is he's very intellectual and knows how to present subtext but can't do action or flare as well. Nolan is very clinical and precise but can't grasp passion. Snyder is visual/action oriented but doesn't do characters or story very well. Goyers a smug little man whose not as talented as he thinks he is but presents himself as a guy who has all the answers. His talent is selling himself to WB not the writing. They bought his bag of bs and continue to do so. He has some good ideas but can't put together a proper screenplay without help. He clings to and rehashes stuff that other people helped him perfect. Norrington helped him realize the more plausible real worldness of blade so he brought that to Batman begins. Nolan helped him with the grounded non linear storytelling so he tried to rehash that with man of Steel. Even in comics when he and Geoff Johns worked together who really was the better writer and who did the heavy lifting? Johns has had a lot more overall success any way you slice it. Not a coincidence. I hear you, large crowds can make anyone's knees shake. Singer is intellectual, I agree. When he's interviewing in a calm setting, he articulates himself really well and I find myself agreeing with many of his arguments. I think you're on the nose with Nolan, too. His stuff is unsentimental- which made his 'Heat' imitation in TDK a perfect match.... but I still shake my head at the flat Talia/Bruce and Selina Kyle/Batman relationship. Ugh. I don't fault Goyer or Snyder for being smug or arrogant- (they may well be, but) I know Hollywood is said to be rough to stay in with thin skin, but I do think he can put out a 'good' comic book adaptation, with proper guidelines or collaborator. As long as both deliver what I like personally, they're in my 'good graces' so to speak. He's not in the same league as Geoff Johns as writer, though. I am, however, a little wary of Geoff Johns after seeing him onstage tout how great Green Lantern was as a movie. Ugh.
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