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Post by adam15 on Feb 12, 2009 12:18:08 GMT -5
Well this is IMHO, the greatest debate about SII. Of course if the blank bullets scene existed we wouldn't even be having this debate. But as it is, which SII opening do you prefer?
I would say that I prefer the D.P. jump opening. The Paris scene is actually kinda slow and listening to Lois try to spell Nobel is weird. Though I never noticed this but it WAS a cool (though maybe unintentional) link to STM because of her trouble spelling!
I saw an edit once where Paris was tightened but still, nothing tops Donner's opener to SII. Of course, I am still not a fan of the blank bullets scene (due soley to it being a screentest; I love the concept though)
Anyway, please vote!
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matt
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Post by matt on Feb 12, 2009 12:28:50 GMT -5
I like Lester's Superman II opening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2009 12:31:34 GMT -5
The Paris opening.
The Jump opening just doesn't work. I dunno if they were missing too much footage or if the tone was just completely missed, but I dunno, I didn't care for it all that much. I think it's goofy and hammy. It just doesn't fit STM to me.
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Post by superman on Feb 12, 2009 12:47:46 GMT -5
…now don’t stand around Kent!
PARIS!!!
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Feb 12, 2009 12:49:08 GMT -5
i like the fancuts that use both
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Post by Matt in the Hat on Feb 12, 2009 12:50:34 GMT -5
Daily Planet jump. Shows off the characters, Lois gets the clue that seemingly she missed over the last 40 years, and it's just funny. And it really says something about Donner's Lois as opposed to Lester's. Donner would have lois willingly fall to her death while Lester would just make a damsel in distress.
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Post by Jimbo on Feb 12, 2009 13:19:26 GMT -5
Screw the DP jump, Paris all the way.
Superman is in the Donner Cut for like 5 minutes. The rest of the time, he's Clark.
Paris scene has suspense, action, the shirt rip, good music, good EDITING, and much better special effects. I'm totally fine with S2 being its own thing with fewer ties to the first movie.
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Post by superman on Feb 12, 2009 13:25:35 GMT -5
Well Put.  |
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Post by adam15 on Feb 12, 2009 13:53:38 GMT -5
I know we all have a soft spot for Paris since we grew up with it. I think the D.P. jump is just so entertaining though... when Lois is ribbing Clark infront of Mr. White... it's so cool.
I think Lester missed the 'moment' when Lois realizes Clark is Superman. Donner's truly had it. I admit that Superman is hardly in the Donner cut but I'm sure Donner woulda shot some action opening featuring Superman which we would have seen before the D.P. jump scene. As it is, however, I see why people beliveve that Paris works better for the film, but when comparing the scenes on their own I'd say DP jump wins.
Plus Lois is hot in the D.P. jump wherein in the Paris Opening.. she startin' to sport the whole rat look! It's important to have Lois looking hot in as many scenes as possible because it lends credence to the idea that Supes would give up his powers for her.
How about a fan cut with the Paris opener followed by the DP jump and the juice scene cut out. They could reshoot the newspaper to say "terrorist scheme bombs!" and Jimmy Oleson's line about being there could be cut out.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Feb 12, 2009 17:24:32 GMT -5
The only two things I still like about the Lester version are...
PARIS
and...
The bit in the White House at the end with the flag. Everything else can go screw.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 12, 2009 17:56:05 GMT -5
Paris. There's a build to whats going to happen. THATS how you create anticipation. The DP opening in Donner's is just....Lois is retarded.
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HOSNI
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Post by HOSNI on Feb 12, 2009 18:49:49 GMT -5
Paris, purely because it gave us the alley change and starts with a bang, as a sequel should.
I like the DP jump, but the Donner Cut in its official form keeps us from seeing Superman (in costume) until Niagra Falls, far too long.
Had Donner returned in 79 to complete the saga we all know we would have seen Superman in the opening scenes arriving in Metropolis - taxi change etc etc.
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Post by Jimbo on Feb 12, 2009 18:54:22 GMT -5
Not to mention Superman stopping a fox hunt.  |
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The Phantom Menace
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Feb 12, 2009 21:09:23 GMT -5
I like both the Daily Planet jump and the Blank shot scene. Both are well acted by Reeve and Kidder in my opinion.
The problem is that those scenes don't feel connected to the rest of the movie (due to Donner being sacked and replaced by Lester).
So, I have to with the Paris opening as the scene that works better in the context of the film.
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Post by Ollie W on Feb 12, 2009 22:06:12 GMT -5
Definitely Donner's Daily Planet jump. It has the fun and energy that made STM great and it's shot beautifully.
I like the alleyway change as much as anyone, but Lester's footage looks so dull. One of the biggest sins of the Lester version is that the retained Donner footage (as shot by Geoffrey Unsworth) was completely ruined. Rather than Robert Paynter trying to match his lighting with Unsworth's he just degraded the Donner footage. It really angers me when Ilya in the SII commentary claims the assembly of footage shot by two directors is seamless.
Just watch the DC to see how much better the footage looks.
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Post by MAVERICK on Feb 13, 2009 0:30:28 GMT -5
Planet Jump.
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Kirok
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Post by Kirok on Feb 13, 2009 0:54:28 GMT -5
I too was impressed by how much cleaner, for lack of a better word, the footage was in the RDC. The Lester cut seemed to have a brownish tint that muted the colors and gave things an almost dirty look, while the RDC was much more bright and vibrant.
My vote is for the Daily Planet opening. Not only does it feature Reeve and Kidder at their best and connect SII to STM in the originally intended way, but when I showed the RDC to friends their response during the opening sequence was, "This is so much better!"
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Gandy
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Post by Gandy on Feb 13, 2009 8:35:28 GMT -5
RDC because it looks so good and is quite fun.
RLC because of the Superman action and starts with a bang.
I guess I like'em both.
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Feb 13, 2009 10:27:24 GMT -5
Something that flies!
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Post by adam15 on Feb 13, 2009 15:46:59 GMT -5
Looks like we are about evenly split. But as I said in my original post I believe that if the blank bullets scene had been properly shot we would most all pick the DP jump.
I mean the DP jump w/o the blank bullets scene feels like 1/2 of a puzzle... but it's STILL a great scene I thought. With blank bullets however, BOTH scenes would be so much more organically connected to the film and be so much better.
And It's kinda dumb having Lois be a damsel in distress again in Paris... Donner nicely turns the tables and has Lois intentionally plunge to her doom. Much better drama since she really could die rather than just taking a swim in a river.
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Post by Jimbo on Feb 13, 2009 16:26:59 GMT -5
Daily Planet Jump as intended > Paris opening > Daily Planet Jump that we got
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Feb 13, 2009 17:04:46 GMT -5
The only two things I still like about the Lester version are... PARIS and... The bit in the White House at the end with the flag. Everything else can go screw. LOL! |
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The Phantom Menace
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Feb 13, 2009 17:21:36 GMT -5
Daily Planet Jump as intended > Paris opening > Daily Planet Jump that we got That sounds about right.  |
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david
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Post by david on Feb 17, 2009 0:47:37 GMT -5
I have to go with the Planet jump because it is simply better directed. The Paris scene makes Lois look too stupid; yeah she's a crazy reporter but she's smarter than that.
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Post by Jimbo on Feb 17, 2009 0:51:24 GMT -5
Direction isn't everything. Editing plays a very important role too.
From the lack of coverage of Perry White in the introduction "great story, really great story!" to the shoddy effects of the eye beams to the horrible scream, it just doesn't work for me. Everything that's Donner/Baird/Unsworth is great, but the rest pales in comparison. By comparison, Lester/Paynter is consistent and complete.
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