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Post by adam15 on Feb 17, 2009 1:21:26 GMT -5
David is spot on... who the F cares if the Paris opening had better production values; it is moronic and a complete non-sequiter. The DP jump baby!! like Mank said let's get right into it, Lois is on to him!!!! A sooooo much more intelligent and fun way to start the film... Metalica says that Lois is moronic??? NOOOOOO!!!! She knows Clark is Superman and so do we!!! I LOVE that scene what tortures me all the time is that the pay off ( blank bullets) scene was never filmed... I hope one day they'll re-do the scene using digital doubles, in 5-10 years they'll be able to pull it off!
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Feb 17, 2009 1:32:38 GMT -5
DP Jump's somewhat better in concept, Paris is miles better in execution.
I prefer the one I can watch without having imagine what could have been.
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Post by adam15 on Feb 18, 2009 1:13:22 GMT -5
But the Paris sequence has nothing to do with the story of Superman... it's just a completely random way of explaining how the villains were freed. It's not fun or memorable or even all that exciting...
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Post by adam15 on Feb 26, 2009 11:40:36 GMT -5
Paris. There's a build to whats going to happen. THATS how you create anticipation. The DP opening in Donner's is just....Lois is retarded. How the heck is Lois retarded in Donner's opening? She was 100% correct about Clark being Superman... so why not take a long jump out of a 30 story window where SUpes would have plenty of time to save her due to the long drop? Lois is more 'retarded' in Niagra because even though she was right about Clark being Superman, he would not have had the time to save her because her fall into the water took 1/2 a second. She was already practically in the water by the time Clark even noticed she had jumped! It would be like Lois putting a gun to her head and saying shes 'gonna bet her life' but actually fires the gun before Clark even turns around.
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Post by adam15 on Feb 27, 2009 1:26:30 GMT -5
The Paris opening. The Jump opening just doesn't work. I dunno if they were missing too much footage or if the tone was just completely missed, but I dunno, I didn't care for it all that much. I think it's goofy and hammy. It just doesn't fit STM to me. Kevin... man..... come'on you know this opening was great. The problem is that you never saw it properly paid off with the bullets scene... screen test dont count...... compare the screen test of the first date from STM with the real scene and you'll see the leaps and bounds of quality a finished scene would make. Lets face it... we all know the DP jump is BETTER but because the pay off scene is soooooooooooooooooooo crude we don't see the forrest for the trees. I mean Tom Mank SAID that the scenes were INEXTICABLY linked so you cant judge one scene without the other... they're connected!!!!!! Okay guys heres a better comparison.... what is better the DP jump or the River jump??? We gotta revise the comparison cause the structure of Donner and Lesters films were soo different here lets just compare the initial I'll bet my life scene... DONNER wins hands down.
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Post by Jimbo on Feb 27, 2009 4:01:39 GMT -5
As I said about the previous comparison, what Donner intended was better than what Lester shot. However, what Lester shot was better than what Donner shot and Thau edited.
I believe the same applies when comparing the DP and Niagara jumps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2009 11:42:45 GMT -5
Aye.
Once again, Lester's cut wins out. I prefer the Niagara Falls jump over the Daily Planey jump.
Christopher Reeve isn't even seen or heard when Clark Kent is seen and heard on screen. It's just such a damn mess.
And that cheap little "pause" where everyone stands still as Clark runs at superspeed...yeah...that could've looked better.
There are precious few moments in the Donner Cut that outshine anything in the Lester Cut, and you haven't mentioned any of them so far. In my opinion.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Feb 27, 2009 12:03:00 GMT -5
Paris!
Iconic shirt rip (possibly the best ever); better music and a nice action opener - Plus Reeve in full costume.
Lois jumping out the window is superfluous given she does it again later anyway.
Total non-brainer.
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 27, 2009 16:18:28 GMT -5
Paris.
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Post by Matt in the Hat on Feb 27, 2009 16:39:48 GMT -5
Gotta say the shirt rip wasn't all that spectacular, and then the full change, it's just not that GOOD. Lester did better in S3 with the car and fence changes.
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Post by joey m on Feb 27, 2009 17:13:31 GMT -5
The Paris thing was always SO lame and those terrorists are straight out of the Pink Panther. At least the Daily Planet scene is supposed to just be cute and it is. Superman saving Paris from nuclear annihilation should be awesome and it's not even close. (just because The Donner Cut turned out to be a mess, doesn't make the other stuff magically better)
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Post by adam15 on Feb 27, 2009 18:14:21 GMT -5
The terrorist aren't even threatening! They fricken let the hostages go... then they p*ssy out with the bomb! But I'll admit as much as Donner gave STM a definative END with the turning back time Lester gave SII a definative beginning with the Paris sequence. Both films stand on their own this way instead of being a part 1 and part 2 deal.
Hey you guys what about a fan edit that makes STM and SII into one huge movie! That way we could use the DP jump right after Superman dumps Lex in prison and we see the rocket explode in space!! Would this work?
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Feb 27, 2009 18:43:52 GMT -5
I don't like either I'm afraid , except the bit before the paris part where superman changes in the alley. Both beginnings - Donner and Lester are stinkers and pretty boring compared to STM.
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Kirok
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Post by Kirok on Feb 28, 2009 0:50:24 GMT -5
Hey you guys what about a fan edit that makes STM and SII into one huge movie! That way we could use the DP jump right after Superman dumps Lex in prison and we see the rocket explode in space!! Would this work? Apparently this is exactly what Ilya Salkind wanted to do in the 90s but WB in all their wisdom didn't allow it because they thought it would interfere with the new Superman movie they had in development at the time. And we all know how that worked out...
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Post by 1stelder on Jun 17, 2009 14:40:15 GMT -5
Well this is IMHO, the greatest debate about SII. Of course if the blank bullets scene existed we wouldn't even be having this debate. But as it is, which SII opening do you prefer? I vote for the DP scene. Margot looks much better and it seems much closer to the style of STM which I liked better than SII(either cut). Also, like the way it ties more into STM and the by play between Clark and Lois here. That stated, Lester's Paris Eiffel Tower scene is a good action sequence on its own. Perhaps if Donner had been allowed to complete his version of II the first time, the Paris sequence could have been used to start III.
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 17, 2009 14:46:58 GMT -5
That stated, Lester's Paris Eiffel Tower scene is a good action sequence on its own. Perhaps if Donner had been allowed to complete his version of II the first time, the Paris sequence could have been used to start III. In ADM's Superman Redeemed, it does!
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Post by 1stelder on Jun 17, 2009 15:05:38 GMT -5
That stated, Lester's Paris Eiffel Tower scene is a good action sequence on its own. Perhaps if Donner had been allowed to complete his version of II the first time, the Paris sequence could have been used to start III. In ADM's Superman Redeemed, it does! Is that worth seeing? I've read about it merging II, III, & IV together.
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 17, 2009 15:09:15 GMT -5
It's merges III and IV together. The only section from II is the Paris sequence.
It's pretty neat and worth watching.
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Post by 1stelder on Jun 17, 2009 15:12:21 GMT -5
It's merges III and IV together. The only section from II is the Paris sequence. It's pretty neat and worth watching. They eliminate the Pryor scenes in it, right? Nothing against Pryor in other things but I've always thought he and Superman don't really mix well. I would gladly have given up all the Pryor scenes in III for more scenes with Annette O'Toole's Lana Lang.
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 17, 2009 15:17:10 GMT -5
No Pryor, no Lacy and no tar kryptonite. The focus of the story is on Smallville and nuclear disarmament.
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jun 17, 2009 15:24:06 GMT -5
Without tar kryptonite we would never have Evil Supes vs. Clark Kent. That's the best part of Superman III and IV combined.
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 17, 2009 15:36:05 GMT -5
Without tar kryptonite we would never have Evil Supes vs. Clark Kent. That's the best part of Superman III and IV combined. ADM instead changed it so that the scratch that Nuclear Man gave Superman made him turn evil.
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jun 17, 2009 15:43:26 GMT -5
Fascinating.
Has he finished this cut?
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 17, 2009 15:56:44 GMT -5
He released it ages ago. It's on fanedit.org, but all the download links are gone. (Thanks MPAA)
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jun 17, 2009 16:12:52 GMT -5
Can you be a dove and, y'know.
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