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Post by adam15 on Mar 20, 2009 23:55:39 GMT -5
Hey A-Digital-Man, I downloaded your cut (first torrent download ever and took forever too) It was a good cut. However, my heart sank when you didn't use thornes music for the hand crush. I could almost live with you using the bad shot of Superman gliding off the pole, but the lack of uplifting music for the hand crush was a show stopper. I also wish you had used the Fortress destruction... but oh well. Don't mean to harpe on your work a few changes and it would have been the perfect Superman II...
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Post by MAVERICK on Mar 21, 2009 3:29:36 GMT -5
To me it is a radical thing to say that you prefer the car escape over the balloon. Dont care. Already did. Dont need a dialog. Because it was unrealistic. Dont care. Dont feel the need to.  Dont care. Dont care. Dont feel the need to. Theres a thread about it with explanations for everything, along with reviews. Done. |
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Mar 21, 2009 5:47:50 GMT -5
LOL Adam @ EPIC FAIL. ;D
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Post by adam15 on Mar 21, 2009 13:24:09 GMT -5
Well then Maverick you have essentialy admitted that you only used the car escape to try to put your own signature on a film that isn't one iota yours to begin with. That is the only reason you put in the car escape; to differentiate the film as much as possible for it's own sake so you can claim artistic ownership; vanity.  |
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Post by MAVERICK on Mar 21, 2009 18:25:25 GMT -5
Well then Maverick you have essentialy admitted that you only used the car escape to try to put your own signature on a film that isn't one iota yours to begin with. That is the only reason you put in the car escape; to differentiate the film as much as possible for it's own sake so you can claim artistic ownership; vanity. Nope. Simply liked it better. Make stupid accusations agianst me one more time, & you get another week off. Drop it. |
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Mar 21, 2009 20:18:03 GMT -5
Maybe he likes to take vacations.  |
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Post by MAVERICK on Mar 21, 2009 20:21:04 GMT -5
Apparently. |
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Post by adam15 on Mar 21, 2009 20:50:32 GMT -5
Maverick I didn't mean to offend anyone, I never have and I'm sorry that I obviously offended you however unintentionally. Calling what you did with your cut a sign of vanity was over the top I admit... what I meant to say was that I believed that you were changing things just because they could be changed and the more unique one makes his/her cut (for better or worse) the more of their personal signature they put on it. What we all have to remember is that the film isn't ours so it makes no sense to go over the top with changes There is a difference between an adjusted cut (getting rid of the bad editing) and a best of both worlds cut as opposed to making wholesale changes that make the cut a personalized work (like the deja vu cut) One better brings out the original authors vision and the other is some fan cutter's personalized vision. Yes, we can get rid of Thaus bad editing or put in as much of Donners work as possible... but why take out a major sequence that has been in every version of Superman II just to replace it with something you like better? No one every associated with the film used this scene to utilize it in a fan cut says that the fan cutter knows better that both authors of SII... I tried to challenge that (IMHO) outrageous claim. Now, all I wanted was an explanation as to why you don't like the balloon sequence. All I got was a generic "the balloon scene is not realistic." I'm sorry but I don't believe that (based upon other unrealistic things you put in your cut) and since you won't elaborate and give me any other explanations, my opinion is solidified. Maybe you believe that showing the black box is stupid right? Well it's shown for a few seconds on screen; it's not dwelled on at all. What is wrong with having Luthor carrying his black box? Maybe he snuck it into the wardens car in your version right? Yeah very realistic. Here is my main argument against the car escape scene which I would have gave you had you formed a reasonable argument against having the balloon sequence. See; the guard expects to see Luthor and Otis to be in their cell right? That's why he turns around and shout "Light's out Luthor!" Well in the baloon escape Luthor and Otis have already begun their escape leaving decoys in their cell. In the car escape scene you used, Otis and Luthor are working on fixing the warden's car... so why did the guard expect them to be in their cell?? Lex is the most dangerous criminal mastermind.... they wouldn't just forget to tell the guard that he wouldn't be there. Also, how did Luthor manage to hide in the car while getting a stupid fake leg to slide under the car w/o anyone noticing? I assume the guard talking about how the warden likes cartoons (ugg!) would have seen the leg or noticed Lex hiding in the car. btw, where did Lex find a fake leg? Yeah showing the black box is stupid but showing Otis holding the fake leg is realistic... yeah. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 21, 2009 23:50:17 GMT -5
Tell that to Richard Lester.  |
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Post by Ollie W on Mar 22, 2009 3:53:40 GMT -5
What we all have to remember is that the film isn't ours so it makes no sense to go over the top with changes There is a difference between an adjusted cut (getting rid of the bad editing) and a best of both worlds cut as opposed to making wholesale changes that make the cut a personalized work (like the deja vu cut) One better brings out the original authors vision and the other is some fan cutter's personalized vision. Yes, we can get rid of Thaus bad editing or put in as much of Donners work as possible... but why take out a major sequence that has been in every version of Superman II just to replace it with something you like better? No one every associated with the film used this scene to utilize it in a fan cut says that the fan cutter knows better that both authors of SII... I tried to challenge that (IMHO) outrageous claim. A person would have to be very full of themselves to think that they are the person best equipped to bring out the author's original vision. Fan cuts aren't real films. And they never will be. Nothing beats the real thing. In a funny way I wish they didn't exist or weren't so feasible to make because you'd like to think that the film ends with those who created it. The fact that we can endlessly play with it makes it impossible to satisfy everyone and probably makes us more critical of the films we watch. Fan edits are a personal thing tailored to suit a particular editors tastes. Mav likes the car get-away better so he used it pure and simple. What you’re doing is fishing for someone to make a cut which suits your tastes. Some highly motivated individuals like Selutron and the Phantom Editor might use fan editing as a means to push for a new official release and highlight the flaws of current day movie making. But don't think that will ever be the last word. The digital age means that those days of precious home recordings of your favorite movies are long gone and people with chop and change them for as long as people care. Enjoy them for what they are, maybe make your own and hopefully in time studios will get it right. |
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Post by adam15 on Mar 22, 2009 9:09:50 GMT -5
I have no problem with people changing SII to make it better in their eyes. I just don't believe that anyone really thinks the car escape scene is better... that simple.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 22, 2009 11:52:50 GMT -5
Well said! I think what makes SII such an obsession to 'fix' is that: (1) after waiting for decades, possibly enough footage is out there to assemble something closer to the masterpiece that Donner intended originally... that we all wanted, to follow up STM- (2) it's the ultimate editing challenge, because so many things are different from both directors (from obvious to subtle to stuff that probably would have been reshot by the original director in the first place)-- (3) software and hardware is available to the home consumer to make it possible now. ((No one is obsessed with editing Superman III, which is a mark of how Lester doesn't know how to do a Superman movie properly without a Richard Donner doing half of the work...)) |
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Post by MAVERICK on Mar 24, 2009 5:16:01 GMT -5
Maverick I didn't mean to offend anyone, I never have Then you do it constantly without even trying? A stupid assumption to make. You don't know me. You don't know my tastes. And I don't feel obligated to explain myself to you. What makes sense is making what we are personally happy with. Its not for you to decide. Make your own cut. Because its what I like better. Is that even a sentence? You just called me a liar yet again. I told you above that the next time warrants a suspension. See you in 7 days. The next time you act up, we're putting you to a vote. Fan edits are a personal thing tailored to suit a particular editors tastes. Mav likes the car get-away better so he used it pure and simple. What you’re doing is fishing for someone to make a cut which suits your tastes Thank you Ollie. Couldn't have said it better myself |
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Mar 24, 2009 6:44:34 GMT -5
Mav, sorry to go off topic. But, are you getting my PMs? I've sent you a few over the past few months and you haven't replied.  |
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Legsy
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Alright, alright, alright...
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Post by Legsy on Mar 24, 2009 9:42:10 GMT -5
Adam got banned, again! Colour me surprised.
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Post by MAVERICK on Mar 24, 2009 10:17:59 GMT -5
Mav, sorry to go off topic. But, are you getting my PMs? I've sent you a few over the past few months and you haven't replied. Havent gotten a PM from anyone in days actually, & I usually get a few. Try again & I'll see if I can sort it out. Thanks for the heads up! |
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Post by stargazer01 on Mar 24, 2009 13:45:58 GMT -5
Fan edits are a personal thing tailored to suit a particular editors tastes. Mav likes the car get-away better so he used it pure and simple. What you’re doing is fishing for someone to make a cut which suits your tastes MAV, I can't help but think of you every time I read or write that word (exactly). ;D ;D It is so you.  |
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Post by Jimbo on Mar 24, 2009 14:02:34 GMT -5
Wow, look at what I missed.
Is personal preference something he cannot fathom? When I was cutting the thing for MAV, even I had some misgivings about that. I loved the balloon scene. But it's his cut. He explained to me why he made those changes, and was good enough for me.
MAV already answered Adam's question satisfactorily. No one has to justify his opinions.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 27, 2009 23:30:43 GMT -5
In re-watching the behind the scenes on the restoration of the audio elements (where they 'cooked' the audio tapes), I wonder just how much damage the cleanup process (if any) had on the original audio for some of Clark and Lois' dialogue in SII.
Everyone mentions the voicedouble in the beginning of the DP scene--- but was Lois also dubbed for the Fortress and Diner scenes? Her voice seems a LOT softer....but was this just due to original on-set performances being softer, like in Terence Stamp's delivery in the RDC - or - a voice double for Kidder -or- just audio that got severely changed in the cleanup process? Anyone have any insight on this?
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Mar 28, 2009 9:01:35 GMT -5
There were lots of weird things going on in SII. Take for example Superman looking slightly more 'softer' in appearence especially his hair. I'm starting to wonder if that was Lester's idea, for making it all lovey dovey.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 28, 2009 11:21:40 GMT -5
Agreed--- In Mankiewicz's script, Supes does seem more regal and innocent at the same time in the scenes with Lois, once he's revealed. In Lester's version, Supes seems more humbled and nervous around Lois- it still works, but definitely takes away from the Donner idea of Supes as a god (of sorts) on earth and more like (almost too much like) an average schmoe with powers.
And- while we're on the subject of SII weirdness- the hair and lighting mismatches with the Lester recreations in the DP confrontation scene were horrible from the get-go. The idea of Lois being more distraught (knowing Supes is depowered) is a nice touch, but the mismatch is so bad for a professional film (I forgive it for fan cuts) that it's painful.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Mar 28, 2009 19:59:14 GMT -5
I agree, there are many issues with SII which is a shame because it could/can be so much more than what we have. Unlike SIV which is just basically polishing a turd, if attempted to be improved/fixed. ;D
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