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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 12, 2009 13:22:44 GMT -5
In STM, Supes is calm when he asks if a electrical plant worker is injured, another worker just screams 'Yeah!' as if talking to another person, then (in the ABC cut) Supes looks grim again, and flies off- followed by audio of workers relieved/ amazed to see Supes. Given the context of everything falling apart, Supes comes off as a great father figure to humanity, who takes a moment to make sure that everyone's alright, but gets right back to business.
In the STM theatrical, another worker just screams 'Yeah!', and (in one of the rare bad cuts of STM), it cuts to Jimmy Olsen....which....to me, the cut kind of makes it seem like Supes is a bit out of touch with the direness of the situation.
***
When a similiar situation comes up in SIII, Supes is yelling at a fire chief about a situation, and this always struck me as a wrong creative choice, that was made because of how the STM theatrical moment was cut.
Why?
Because, if Supes is considered a 'god on earth'- who is indestructible - then, the assumption is that Supes, as an authority figure and leader, can never be shown to freak out in a situation, particularly to human beings who are far more vulnerable than himself.... which is why I thought that the creative choice (though not the edit) of Superman being calm and offering assurance regardless of the situation was built in to him.... which gave far more power when he screams at the end of STM. He's not someone who ever needs to yell or scream.... and shouldn't seem that way in front of other human beings, as he's the ultimate example for hope for humanity.
Or.... should Supes be yelling and shouting in crisis to tell people what to do?
What are your thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2009 13:26:56 GMT -5
He will do what must be done to save people. If dumb ass people aren't listening, or things are too loud, then of COURSE, he's gonna have to shout and scream and such.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 12, 2009 13:32:22 GMT -5
Good point, I may be complaining more about Reeve's line delivery in SIII when shouting at the fire chief--- to me, he sounded like a person panicking, rather than (for lack of a better example) a leader with the authority that, say, a Jean-Luc Picard would have shouting a command on the bridge of the Enterprise.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 12, 2009 13:44:32 GMT -5
I agree- but I thought performance-wise, we should see that (in a subtle way) on his face in closeups. Calm in front of people who always need him to be strong and a symbol, but right underneath the surface- even more worried because he knows his own limits as to what he can (and can't) do.
If he NEEDED to shout/scream, sure---I don't have a problem with that- but, if that's the case, then I thought it should be a key dramatic moment (and perhaps Reeve thought in SIII that would be a closeup chosen)...not a tossaway moment in SIII. I think it's perfectly acceptable for firemen and police to do that whenever necessary- when someone who is considered a 'God on earth' (who can intimidate simply by folding his arms over his chest and give a look) yells during all crisises, then I think it can only add to more hysteria- given how he knows how he's constantly perceived as THE calm in the storm.
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Mar 12, 2009 13:44:50 GMT -5
I consider it bad direction on Lester's behalf.
Reeve's primal scream in STM is warranted. It deserves to be there. It's a moment of desperation. He saved the day, but just didn't save the one person he loves the most.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 12, 2009 13:48:45 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure he's shouting over the noise along with trying to emphasize the seriousness of the situation. A fire is nothing compared to acid raining down on part of the east coast.
Of all the things Lester did wrong I don't think this is one of them. he got some actual seriousness and drama in there.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 12, 2009 13:53:06 GMT -5
Oh, I agree. It's one of THE best moments of STM. (It's just too bad it also opens up the door to turning back time- one of the unfortunate worst moments of STM)  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 12, 2009 13:55:06 GMT -5
I hear you, but I still think a closeup would have helped that moment out a lot...
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Post by stargazer01 on Mar 13, 2009 10:54:37 GMT -5
In STM, Supes is calm when he asks if a electrical plant worker is injured, another worker just screams 'Yeah!' as if talking to another person, then (in the ABC cut) Supes looks grim again, and flies off- followed by audio of workers relieved/ amazed to see Supes. Given the context of everything falling apart, Supes comes off as a great father figure to humanity, who takes a moment to make sure that everyone's alright, but gets right back to business.In the STM theatrical, another worker just screams 'Yeah!', and (in one of the rare bad cuts of STM), it cuts to Jimmy Olsen....which....to me, the cut kind of makes it seem like Supes is a bit out of touch with the direness of the situation. *** When a similiar situation comes up in SIII, Supes is yelling at a fire chief about a situation, and this always struck me as a wrong creative choice, that was made because of how the STM theatrical moment was cut. Why? Because, if Supes is considered a 'god on earth'- who is indestructible - then, the assumption is that Supes, as an authority figure and leader, can never be shown to freak out in a situation, particularly to human beings who are far more vulnerable than himself.... which is why I thought that the creative choice (though not the edit) of Superman being calm and offering assurance regardless of the situation was built in to him.... which gave far more power when he screams at the end of STM. He's not someone who ever needs to yell or scream.... and shouldn't seem that way in front of other human beings, as he's the ultimate example for hope for humanity.Or.... should Supes be yelling and shouting in crisis to tell people what to do? What are your thoughts? I agree with your sentiments for the most part. I definitely think that Superman should not be a screamer, especially not in front of people. It should only happen in very extreme and rare ocassions, IMO, and even during a crisis, I expect him to talk to people with authority and a firm voice but not "yelling". There is a difference. Same thing with craying or laughing out loud, etc. It just doesn't suit his public persona and his status as Earth's Greatest Protector. And that doesn't make him any less human to me. It is all part of who he is and represents to the world. It's tough, I guess, but it's part of the job. He can cry, be sad and laugh out loud privately or with the people close to him, like Ma Kent, Lois (if they are in a relationship), Batman, for instance. I just don't see an adult Superman as a very outgoing or extroverted kinda guy at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2009 11:59:38 GMT -5
Superman must be a caring, loving big brother to all of mankind. His extroversion is necessary for people to trust him. He has to show that side of him, otherwise he'd be too godly.
He has to be able to talk to a crowd of millions. He has to be able to talk to an old lady who can't hear him too well. He has to be able to make people comfortable when he's saving them.
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Post by stargazer01 on Mar 13, 2009 12:47:27 GMT -5
I agree with that^Kevin. I just prefer my Superman to be more of the strong and silent type. I think he should be a man of few words, but that when he talks everyone pays attention because it's going to be special and meaningful.
I really don't like it when they make him talk too much. It comes off as cheesy.
Now, Flash, he is a talker.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Mar 13, 2009 21:37:42 GMT -5
I think it depends on the situation, to convey a certain emotion I think it's necessary. I think, the good thing about it when he screams is it shows he really must be in distress (Lois's death, junkard scene) because most of the time he is pretty cool and under control guy. Now if we're talking shouting, as in calling someone or saying something to be heard like at the factory fire, I think that's different.
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Post by fggafagas on Mar 14, 2009 12:54:25 GMT -5
I hear you, but I still think a closeup would have helped that moment out a lot... I think it's fine as it is. I never got the impression he was panicking at all. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Mar 14, 2009 16:20:48 GMT -5
...fascinating....  |
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atp
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Post by atp on Mar 14, 2009 17:13:08 GMT -5
Why should he EVER panic if he can just turn the world back to fix anything?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2009 14:02:38 GMT -5
Which is why he shouldn't be able to do such a thing. Unless every time he did, he made things worse. That'd be the only acceptable situation. Him being able to go back in time really kinda...I dunno...makes it not so dramatic whenever anything potentially catastrophic occurs.
Deus ex Machina, if you will.
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Post by adam15 on Mar 15, 2009 18:32:32 GMT -5
Judging from the sounds coming from the gallery with Jeremy in SIV; Superman was definately a screamer!  |
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Mar 15, 2009 20:46:20 GMT -5
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Post by MAVERICK on Mar 20, 2009 0:05:53 GMT -5
I was gonna post my opinion on this, but, as is often the case, Kev has already spoken my heart for me: Superman must be a caring, loving big brother to all of mankind. His extroversion is necessary for people to trust him. He has to show that side of him, otherwise he'd be too godly. He has to be able to talk to a crowd of millions. He has to be able to talk to an old lady who can't hear him too well. He has to be able to make people comfortable when he's saving them. Perfect. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 10:12:54 GMT -5
Batman's the quiet one. The one who should never say more than three or four lines during or after something requiring his skills.
Superman? He can stay at the crime scene and shake the hand of every goddamn police officer that came to the scene, and personally thank them.
Let's get one thing straight, Superman ain't a quiet, broody, fly away when I'm not needed kinda loner. That's Batman. Superman will watch Batman fly away and shrug and turn around and say hi to the little kids he just rescued from a fire and pat their heads and let them grab onto his pinky finger so he can lift them all up.
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Post by adam15 on Mar 20, 2009 10:35:37 GMT -5
In SR Superman seemed like a loner... gushers are gonna say "duuuh... dats cuz in da storie he leavez so he feel alienated... blahbpe blah dododooo..."
Anyway, Kevin you good sir are 100% correct on your point FACT. That is precisely why I hate SR... will Routh cum out of his sheck/brown cape by Superman Unleashed and not be such a loner and say more than six words? If it comes out (holy heck I hope it don't) then I hope that's the case!
On the side note of referencing Superman III I'm gonna observe (shuddah!) that Reeve's best acting was when he screamed in SIII... seriously that was great I nominate it for best scream.
Does anyone else ever feel like Superman in SIII and just scream with your arms in the air like he did in the junkyard?... best way to vent IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 12:18:38 GMT -5
Superman Returns is a different story altogether. The circumstances are completely new to him and the whole Superman universe, so his reaction to his new surroundings and life is pretty damn understandable. Given what he had to work with, I'd say Superman reacted, in Superman Returns, as he should've.
I can definitely see where you're coming from, though, for damn sure. I don't want any of that in the next Superman movie. No loneliness. No dark brooding. He needs to be SUPERMAN throughout.
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Post by stargazer01 on Mar 20, 2009 12:42:06 GMT -5
Exactly! ^^ Adam, Superman always behaved kindly and approachable when around people in SR (inside the plane with Lois and the press people, with Kitty, with Lois during the rooftop interview, with Richard in the sea plane, and also in the deleted scene with Perry, for instance). Don't you remember that?  |
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Post by adam15 on Mar 20, 2009 12:49:40 GMT -5
I do think that in SR he's like this loner wierdo stalker that no one likes... there's no warmth in his performance... Routh is devoid of any personality as Superman. At his best Routh only hearkens to Reeve but it's a pale comparison.
Compare Reeve saving the boy in Niagra Falls "Only one ride to a customer!" to Routh saving Kitty and trying to leave ASAP cuz he's not interested in her (for obvious reasons). Reeve has a positive aura as Superman and he touched everyone he met in a positive way... he was truly the light showing the way. Routh was a brooding dark semi-angst filled Superman and it didn't work. Hopefully the next movie (in whatever form it comes in) will eliminate Superman's anti social tendencies from SR and have a brighter tone.
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Mar 20, 2009 13:05:47 GMT -5
It's amazing how opinions differ. I'm not surprised, either you HATE SR or LOVE it.
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