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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 17, 2009 9:30:16 GMT -5
My cut is the best! Just kidding!  I am going to watch your cut shortly. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Mar 17, 2009 23:04:33 GMT -5
You took out Supes talking about the green crystal calling to him, and Lois reacting confused. Yeah I get toning down the dialogue at that part. Seems like Lester wasn't good at getting Reeve to act as imposing as he did in the first one. Superman acts likes he's nervous during that scene. If I were you, I'd cut out as many of his "um"s at that part, and his pauses. Starting with "But, um" before he says "That's when I found out who I really was." Maybe trim the part after she's mentions dinner and cut straight to him saying "Tonight, sky's the limit."
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 18, 2009 9:15:54 GMT -5
Nice call! But I mainly edited the scene to take out Lois' responses. She doesn't act the way she did in Superman 1.
My Superman II: The Final Cut is 95% complete already. I just have to work on some fades and that's it.
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 18, 2009 10:02:27 GMT -5
Here's a new preview:
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Post by Jack Tripper on Mar 18, 2009 11:53:27 GMT -5
the cut from the guy with the mug to the fortress was pretty jarring. also, are you really keeping the toilet bit?
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 18, 2009 13:09:39 GMT -5
Jarring, really?
I might keep the toilet bit. It's kind of funny. I could cut after Lex says "Too true to be good."
Right now that cut is at 1 hr, 55 minutes.
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 18, 2009 13:15:28 GMT -5
The cut is very pro-Donner but a lot of Lester fortress material is being used. It really helps the cut. I also used the music from Lester's cut on the Moon and when the villains come to the Daily Planet. I didn't use Lester's music in the Fortress finale because it's cut different from Donner's, and Lester's fortress is way too green compared to the clean whites, so going back and forth between cuts would be very unreasonable. I also removed some errors - namely Zod's face being "mirrored" when he's shooting heat rays down at Metropolis.
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Post by Jimbo on Mar 18, 2009 13:21:34 GMT -5
For the Metropolis fight, I find it better to start with the Lester version, and just cut out the things you don't want. Use the Donner version as a template for making cuts because the music and SFX of the Lester version are better. That also takes care of the flipped shots of Zod as the Lester version doesn't have that problem.
That doesn't include the Donner-only stuff, which I liked, like the Lois reaction shots and the punch into the Statue of Liberty. Those I reinserted.
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 18, 2009 13:56:57 GMT -5
For the Metropolis fight, I find it better to start with the Lester version, and just cut out the things you don't want. Use the Donner version as a template for making cuts because the music and SFX of the Lester version are better. That also takes care of the flipped shots of Zod as the Lester version doesn't have that problem. That doesn't include the Donner-only stuff, which I liked, like the Lois reaction shots and the punch into the Statue of Liberty. Those I reinserted. I used the Lester stuff until the cab driver says "This is gonna be good", then it's strictly Donner because it is more action packed. I asked my GF which fight I should use, and she said "Donner" no question. We're not fans of Lester's version, but he did film some good stuff to help save the project. Adding his fortress material really helps the middle of the film big time. BIG TIME. |
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Post by Jack Tripper on Mar 19, 2009 15:08:09 GMT -5
yeah i mean if you're cutting the whole bit after zod lands in the water and ursa discovers her heat vision than i would suggest cutting the scene after the guy throws the water out of the mug. not cutting on an action can look weird sometimes. also the way it is right now, you need to fix the music and maybe sound fx where it cuts back to lex and tessmacher. i think that's the most jarring part about it. however, if you are leaving the scene where they discover their heat vision, than why cut it and split it up in the first place? Jarring, really? I might keep the toilet bit. It's kind of funny. I could cut after Lex says "Too true to be good." Right now that cut is at 1 hr, 55 minutes. |
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Post by adam15 on Mar 19, 2009 15:32:59 GMT -5
Well, I am still very much looking forward to bizzarroworld's SIV cut and his SII cut looks great! LOVE his opening especially since he used Lester's shot of Superman flying baack to Earth after the rocket exploding... GENIOUS! However, I can't watch SUperman II without Thornes score when Superman crushes Zod's hand. That moment should get a cheer and in the Donner Cut the music is so ordinary that it just plays out.
Sorry bizzaroworld!
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Post by indo77 on Mar 19, 2009 17:33:53 GMT -5
Jarring, really? I might keep the toilet bit. It's kind of funny. I could cut after Lex says "Too true to be good." Right now that cut is at 1 hr, 55 minutes. To be honest the jarring moment described totally kills the scene, you would be better the entire Lester scene played through. I have no probs with the toilet scene but the entire problem with the 2006 cut was the lack of Lester scenes to back up the story. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 19, 2009 17:41:55 GMT -5
agreed.
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 19, 2009 17:55:34 GMT -5
yeah i mean if you're cutting the whole bit after zod lands in the water and ursa discovers her heat vision than i would suggest cutting the scene after the guy throws the water out of the mug. not cutting on an action can look weird sometimes. also the way it is right now, you need to fix the music and maybe sound fx where it cuts back to lex and tessmacher. i think that's the most jarring part about it. however, if you are leaving the scene where they discover their heat vision, than why cut it and split it up in the first place? Jarring, really? I might keep the toilet bit. It's kind of funny. I could cut after Lex says "Too true to be good." Right now that cut is at 1 hr, 55 minutes. The scene with Zod and company walking through the weeds and Ursa getting bit by a snake is gone. I've always hated that scene, it's so lame. I've also cut Heading South -- the new cut from the guy's face to the new scene is much better. I've actually cut all material that was not "complete" in either the Donner or Lester versions. I've added Lester material to the middle of the film. The final cut of the movie is 1 hr, 45 minutes. |
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 19, 2009 17:57:12 GMT -5
Well, I am still very much looking forward to bizzarroworld's SIV cut and his SII cut looks great! LOVE his opening especially since he used Lester's shot of Superman flying baack to Earth after the rocket exploding... GENIOUS! However, I can't watch SUperman II without Thornes score when Superman crushes Zod's hand. That moment should get a cheer and in the Donner Cut the music is so ordinary that it just plays out. Sorry bizzaroworld! I've used Thorne's score in the crushing the hand sequence. I think you'll be happy with this cut of Superman II. The running time is 1 hr, 45 minutes. |
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Post by indo77 on Mar 19, 2009 18:46:32 GMT -5
yeah i mean if you're cutting the whole bit after zod lands in the water and ursa discovers her heat vision than i would suggest cutting the scene after the guy throws the water out of the mug. not cutting on an action can look weird sometimes. also the way it is right now, you need to fix the music and maybe sound fx where it cuts back to lex and tessmacher. i think that's the most jarring part about it. however, if you are leaving the scene where they discover their heat vision, than why cut it and split it up in the first place? The scene with Zod and company walking through the weeds and Ursa getting bit by a snake is gone. I've always hated that scene, it's so lame. The final cut of the movie is 1 hr, 45 minutes. Well even if you hate it you still need to fix the scene with the guy with the mug somehow (Zod lands on water); I am not being an arse just telling you how I see it as a testing audience. It kills the scene and if you want to call it "Final Cut" you need to fix it to get it to that level. Believe me I don't want to sound ignorant and wish the best for your cut but you should listen to constructive criticism. In my professional work I face this everyday - if you want to label something "Final Cut" then no matter how good your technical talents are you should listen to feedback to appease everyone. Who knows - maybe it could be "Final cut". I don't like when people tear apart software I built but I still have to listen to them. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 19, 2009 18:59:16 GMT -5
There will not be a "final cut"
There will never be a "final cut"!
You can't please everyone.
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Post by adam15 on Mar 19, 2009 19:10:56 GMT -5
Bizarroworld, do you use Thorne's score all the way until Lois punches Ursa. If you do (and judging by that great opening) I am totally pumped for your cut. How do I see it? Is Mega Upload a torrent site? Torrents take 4ever  .... but it'll be worth it! And guys, the Final Cut monicker doesn't have to be taken literally |
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 19, 2009 20:25:03 GMT -5
The scene with Zod and company walking through the weeds and Ursa getting bit by a snake is gone. I've always hated that scene, it's so lame. The final cut of the movie is 1 hr, 45 minutes. Well even if you hate it you still need to fix the scene with the guy with the mug somehow (Zod lands on water); I am not being an arse just telling you how I see it as a testing audience. It kills the scene and if you want to call it "Final Cut" you need to fix it to get it to that level. Believe me I don't want to sound ignorant and wish the best for your cut but you should listen to constructive criticism. In my professional work I face this everyday - if you want to label something "Final Cut" then no matter how good your technical talents are you should listen to feedback to appease everyone. Who knows - maybe it could be "Final cut". I don't like when people tear apart software I built but I still have to listen to them. What's wrong with cutting away after the guy looks on in shock? The scene after is now a much smoother transition. We don't need to spend any more time than necessary on a guy in watching Zod walk on water -- and we don't need a scene of the trio walking through the weeds getting bitten by snakes.  I did fix the scene - I got rid of Heading South and replaced it with a scene that goes more smoothly with the boat guy. On a positive note, don't you love the cut of Zod talking nonsense about "what a strange surface?" |
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 19, 2009 20:25:50 GMT -5
Bizarroworld, do you use Thorne's score all the way until Lois punches Ursa. If you do (and judging by that great opening) I am totally pumped for your cut. How do I see it? Is Mega Upload a torrent site? Torrents take 4ever .... but it'll be worth it! And guys, the Final Cut monicker doesn't have to be taken literally Yes, I used Thorne's score for the entire scene from when he crushes Zod's hand to when Luthor tries to make a deal. |
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Post by indo77 on Mar 19, 2009 21:00:24 GMT -5
What's wrong with cutting away after the guy looks on in shock? The scene after is now a much smoother transition. We don't need to spend any more time than necessary on a guy in watching Zod walk on water -- and we don't need a scene of the trio walking through the weeds getting bitten by snakes. I did fix the scene - I got rid of Heading South and replaced it with a scene that goes more smoothly with the boat guy. On a positive note, don't you love the cut of Zod talking nonsense about "what a strange surface?" Everything up to 0:54 is good, but I think you cut violently to the next scene and I don't agree about a "smoother transition". I expected more from Zod and Co. It's like you teased the audience then just moved on... Edit: I think you must also acknowledge that a "Final Cut" of this movie really needs to acknowledge the best of both directors' work. Both the 1980 and 2006 versions are a mess. I am not being a pain, but you should expect any "Final Cut" to provide an even balance. I wish you success - no one will ever produce a perfect cut unless Donner and Lester got together. |
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Post by Jack Tripper on Mar 19, 2009 23:13:44 GMT -5
just to show what i was talking aboout, i did a quick edit in keeping with your cut ideas but adjusted the shot with the guy with the mug. also, i don't know if i'm imagining things but after tessmacher finds the toilet, doesn't lex say "she found it." i think adding that line then cutting to the villains would flow even better.
watching this again i should have made the cut to the last scene as soon as you hear the sound of his drink hitting the ground. it adds a little punch.
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 20, 2009 1:15:35 GMT -5
Not bad! You just used the 2nd shot of the guy drinking the coffee. I was going for just a "shock" shot. I think it just comes down to semantics. Very nice, though!
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 20, 2009 1:19:10 GMT -5
What's wrong with cutting away after the guy looks on in shock? The scene after is now a much smoother transition. We don't need to spend any more time than necessary on a guy in watching Zod walk on water -- and we don't need a scene of the trio walking through the weeds getting bitten by snakes. I did fix the scene - I got rid of Heading South and replaced it with a scene that goes more smoothly with the boat guy. On a positive note, don't you love the cut of Zod talking nonsense about "what a strange surface?" Everything up to 0:54 is good, but I think you cut violently to the next scene and I don't agree about a "smoother transition". I expected more from Zod and Co. It's like you teased the audience then just moved on... Edit: I think you must also acknowledge that a "Final Cut" of this movie really needs to acknowledge the best of both directors' work. Both the 1980 and 2006 versions are a mess. I am not being a pain, but you should expect any "Final Cut" to provide an even balance. I wish you success - no one will ever produce a perfect cut unless Donner and Lester got together. I didn't post the "smoother transaction" version yet. In "The Final Cut" version, the Zod & co. builds up over time. I don't think there's any sense showing more if there aren't any more good scenes to show. For example, I'd rather just tease the audience than insert that scene were Ursa gets bitten. The next scene with the trio of traitors is when they meet the police. I did an edit on that as well, removing the obvious Zod double in the close-up. Thanks for your ideas though, it really helps to see what an audience will think. |
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Post by bizarroworld on Mar 20, 2009 1:30:43 GMT -5
What's wrong with cutting away after the guy looks on in shock? The scene after is now a much smoother transition. We don't need to spend any more time than necessary on a guy in watching Zod walk on water -- and we don't need a scene of the trio walking through the weeds getting bitten by snakes. I did fix the scene - I got rid of Heading South and replaced it with a scene that goes more smoothly with the boat guy. On a positive note, don't you love the cut of Zod talking nonsense about "what a strange surface?" Everything up to 0:54 is good, but I think you cut violently to the next scene and I don't agree about a "smoother transition". I expected more from Zod and Co. It's like you teased the audience then just moved on... Edit: I think you must also acknowledge that a "Final Cut" of this movie really needs to acknowledge the best of both directors' work. Both the 1980 and 2006 versions are a mess. I am not being a pain, but you should expect any "Final Cut" to provide an even balance. I wish you success - no one will ever produce a perfect cut unless Donner and Lester got together. I've just finished up my cut, and I'd say it's mostly pro-Donner but I did use more Lester scenes than in the official "Donner" cut. The total running time is a lean 1 hr, 45 minutes. I only used "completed" scenes -- meaning no deleted scenes footage. I wanted the best quality of Donner and Lester's material. To make the best Donner cut (which by default is the most "pure" Superman II you could ever get), you've got to use more quality Lester scenes to make it more meaty and complete, especially in the middle of the film. As far as the redneck, metropolis battle, and fortress finale, forget about it. Anyway, I hope this new cut of Superman II has a good reception. I'm already hearing good things about the Superman IV cut, but honestly Superman II was a lot more fun to do... so much footage to choose from. Just looking at my Sony Vegas timeline with Donner's and Lester's films there was amazing. I'm going to watch a few more fan edits of Superman II tomorrow, there's some great stuff out there. |
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.... but it'll be worth it!
I did fix the scene - I got rid of Heading South and replaced it with a scene that goes more smoothly with the boat guy.