Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Apr 6, 2009 10:50:07 GMT -5
Thats like saying T2 is a remake of Terminator. SR has some beats and structure similar to STM but its not a remake. Anybody could see that.
Theres to many new characters and new story elements. Superman himself is somewhat different as well. The action is also different.
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 11:12:55 GMT -5
Well...STM and SR... they both begin on Krypton, Jor-El gives speech, planet explodes. Kal-EL arrives on Earth, gets job at Daily Planet, there's an air travel disaster where Superman is revealed for first time... identical dialog sprinked thoroughout. Luthor goes to Superman's fortress to learn his 'secret' sees Jor-El again... has another land scheme..... Superman and Lois meet on the roof for another interview... they fly around again.... Lex gets the addis ababa Kryptonite again from the museum lays it on Superman and throws him into the water/pool. The bad girl Eve/Kitty has a change of heart and saves the day.... Superman throws missle/kryptonite mountain into space... also stops natural disasters earthquake/flood..... then winkes at the camera....
pretty similar yes?
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Post by MAVERICK on Apr 6, 2009 11:37:40 GMT -5
Its a Sequel.
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 6, 2009 11:39:36 GMT -5
Well...STM and SR... they both begin on Krypton, Jor-El gives speech, planet explodes. Kal-EL arrives on Earth, gets job at Daily Planet, there's an air travel disaster where Superman is revealed for first time... identical dialog sprinked thoroughout. Luthor goes to Superman's fortress to learn his 'secret' sees Jor-El again... has another land scheme..... Superman and Lois meet on the roof for another interview... they fly around again.... Lex gets the addis ababa Kryptonite again from the museum lays it on Superman and throws him into the water/pool. The bad girl Eve/Kitty has a change of heart and saves the day.... Superman throws missle/kryptonite mountain into space... also stops natural disasters earthquake/flood..... then winkes at the camera.... pretty similar yes? I can understand that some people could not get all of the messages in SR..  And yes, there is a lot of similarity between parts of STM and SR; the bones, the structure is similar. However, the meat of the story is a whole different beast, yes? And please, please, don't try to pass your opinions as law. It doesn't work that way. Thanks.  |
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Apr 6, 2009 12:27:20 GMT -5
I didn't know Luthor went to the fortress in STM...
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 12:55:50 GMT -5
Oh.. that part was stolen from SII.
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Post by Jimbo on Apr 6, 2009 12:58:57 GMT -5
Especially that part when he turns the world around at the end.
Oh wait.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 14:31:20 GMT -5
Superman saving a Jet in the most spectacular Superman stunt ever caught on film A.) Superman Returns was shot digitally, hence there was technically no "film" involved. B.) It wasn't really a "stunt," since the whole thing (other than some closeups of Routh) was rendered on a computer.  I love that sequence, even though it wasn't shot on film. I'm not a fan of SR overall, but that was probably the most exciting superhero action sequence I've seen. I love the score, especially during the moment when Lois looks over and sees Superman zip by the window. Great stuff. I wish the big reveal in the stadium would've been a few beats longer, but that's a small complaint. I do have to agree that SR is very unoriginal. Harris and Dougherty are the John Logans of Superman films; their entire script was adapted from bits and pieces of other people's work. Even the airplane sequence, which is awesome, was lifted from Abrams' script, IIRC- that draft had Superman saving Air Force One and landing it in Fenway Park. The "Superman hovers in the air and listens for trouble" scene was also Abrams' idea. So right there, two of the most interesting scenes from the film were thought up by someone other than Singer/Harris/Dougherty, yet they're the only ones whose names appear in the credits. Brandon Routh was a great find, despite the issues I have with SR. I have no problem with WB bringing him back for The Man of Steel, or whatever they want to call it- in fact, it'd be a major selling point for me. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 14:40:29 GMT -5
Yeah, that's one of my favorite parts of the movie. It's such a beautiful little moment, you can just feel what Lois is thinking. The music is gorgeous.
It's a stunt that Superman performed to save people. And was in a film. So Mav's right.
LOVE the scene. Wish it was more real than CGI but still love it.
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 15:05:19 GMT -5
Superman saving a Jet in the most spectacular Superman stunt ever caught on film A.) Superman Returns was shot digitally, hence there was technically no "film" involved. B.) It wasn't really a "stunt," since the whole thing (other than some closeups of Routh) was rendered on a computer. I love that sequence, even though it wasn't shot on film. I'm not a fan of SR overall, but that was probably the most exciting superhero action sequence I've seen. I love the score, especially during the moment when Lois looks over and sees Superman zip by the window. Great stuff. I wish the big reveal in the stadium would've been a few beats longer, but that's a small complaint. I do have to agree that SR is very unoriginal. Harris and Dougherty are the John Logans of Superman films; their entire script was adapted from bits and pieces of other people's work. Even the airplane sequence, which is awesome, was lifted from Abrams' script, IIRC- that draft had Superman saving Air Force One and landing it in Fenway Park. The "Superman hovers in the air and listens for trouble" scene was also Abrams' idea. So right there, two of the most interesting scenes from the film were thought up by someone other than Singer/Harris/Dougherty, yet they're the only ones whose names appear in the credits. Brandon Routh was a great find, despite the issues I have with SR. I have no problem with WB bringing him back for The Man of Steel, or whatever they want to call it- in fact, it'd be a major selling point for me. Yeah the jet sequence wasn't a stunt caught on film... it was nothing but a videogame sequence! |
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Post by Jimbo on Apr 6, 2009 15:08:18 GMT -5
That's a fault of ALL stuntwork and special effects in movie-making today. Don't single out Superman Returns for that.
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 6, 2009 15:11:56 GMT -5
And get used to it cuz realistically speaking, there are some action/fight sequences that must use extensive CGI work, ESPECIALLY with a character like Superman. There is only so much a human being can do.
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Apr 6, 2009 15:36:53 GMT -5
Adam would actually have them drop a jumbo jet onto a baseball stadium...which is just retarded. not really much of another way they COULD do all that in SR. It was still brilliant.
Jason White was an awesome character in STM wasn't he folks? Oh wait....
you could call ALL the Superman movies remakes of the first one if we're using this logic...even Supergirl.
STM itself is a ripoff of Superman on Earth with Adams thinking.
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 15:39:09 GMT -5
That's a fault of ALL stuntwork and special effects in movie-making today. Don't single out Superman Returns for that. I agree with that... but some movies still use CGI tastfully (like LOTR) and a lot use it way too much (like Star Wars and SR) SR is just the sad and depressing result of how films like it are made today. When I see that plasticy CGI Routh zip across the screen in a digital blur I'm reminded of Chris Reeve actually being suspended in the air on wires.. twisting turning and zooming toward the camera in a magestic ballet... 100% practical and optical effects all caught in the camera. THAT makes me cry! |
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 6, 2009 15:49:22 GMT -5
That's a fault of ALL stuntwork and special effects in movie-making today. Don't single out Superman Returns for that. I agree with that... but some movies still use CGI tastfully (like LOTR) and a lot use it way too much (like Star Wars and SR) SR is just the sad and depressing result of how films like it are made today. When I see that plasticy CGI Routh zip across the screen in a digital blur I'm reminded of Chris Reeve actually being suspended in the air on wires.. twisting turning and zooming toward the camera in a magestic ballet... 100% practical and optical effects all caught in the camera. THAT makes me cry! OK, the flying in SR could have been better in some scenes; especially by using more REAL Brandon/Superman in close ups. true. But a lot of the flying was also good/great, IMO. And it's true that a lot of the flying in STM done by Chris was/is pretty cool, but NOT all of it. Some take offs and landings are bad by today's standards. Sorry but it's true. Not all it is "majestic". I think your love and nostalgia for the old films blinds you a lot of times. |
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 19:27:00 GMT -5
They abused CGI in SR... they even had a fricken CGI Brandon ROuth close up at the end.... how can you look at that shot w/o cringing? It's like they were saying 'hey look how good our CGI Brandon Routh is... it can withstand a close up! ' Uhh... no it can't it looks fake and plasticy! And I don't think anyone here views STM w/ rose colored glasses. We see it for the FLAWLESS MASTERPIECE that it is. Even thought I meant it when I said Superman on the whole stinks to high heaven.... STM is 100% perfect... no flaws at all and THAT is why we celebrate it's existence on this board and scorn all imitators! |
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Post by MAVERICK on Apr 6, 2009 19:57:40 GMT -5
they even had a fricken CGI Brandon ROuth close up at the end.... how can you look at that shot w/o cringing? It's like they were saying 'hey look how good our CGI Brandon Routh is... it can withstand a close up! ' Uhh... no it can't it looks fake and plasticy! I agree with that. I hate that shot. Stupid abuse of CGI. They could have easily used Brandon for that shot. Yes, a few do tend to view STM with rose colored glasses. Whereas most of us see it as the flawed but awesome Masterpeice that it its. Its got PLENTY of flaws. Its not perfect. But I stil love it. We all do. If by imitators you mean Superman Returns, then you are wrong. We as a whole, dont scorn it. You do. You dont speak for everyone. |
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 22:32:33 GMT -5
Superman the movie has no flaws. Finding a "flaw" in STM is like saying the crack in the Liberty Bell is a "flaw"
STM is a cinematic classic like Wizard of Oz, Ben Hurr, Gone with the Wind, etc.
SR on the other hand is like, no offense because I know you like it, but did you ever see the movie "Dude Where's my Car?"
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 22:36:28 GMT -5
uhhh... downwithrouth? How come you are defending SR at every turn? I know Lt. Dan said I was secretly in love with SR but I'm starting to think it is YOU WHO'S HAVING THE AFFAIR!!!Seriously dude, please tell me exactly why you don't like SR? Just a quick bullet point or two wopuld be nice! |
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Post by MAVERICK on Apr 6, 2009 22:48:31 GMT -5
Superman the movie has no flaws. Finding a "flaw" in STM is like saying the crack in the Liberty Bell is a flaw STM has flaws. Some of the effects. And I dont like anything to do with Otis. I also hate turning back time for a girl hes never even kissed. Hey look everybody, Adam is being inflamatory! Wow! How cool! |
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 23:13:04 GMT -5
It's a simple analogy to show how much better I think STM is than SR::
STM is to SR as
Ben Hurr is to Dude Where's my Car
I'm not being inflamatory I'm just making a point... I'll try to be more subtle if that's too much!
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Post by MAVERICK on Apr 6, 2009 23:14:34 GMT -5
You are SO awesomely witty Adam!  |
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 23:16:50 GMT -5
really?
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Post by MAVERICK on Apr 6, 2009 23:20:48 GMT -5
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Post by adam15 on Apr 6, 2009 23:25:57 GMT -5
Ahhhh the owl of orly???!?!?! NOOOOOOOOO! I think we had a great debate tonight folks and we all learned a thing or two. Perhaps 2morrow we will debate again!!
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