Would you accept an older Superman in movies/tv?

[Jor-L5150]

Apr 19, 2009 16:07:06 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

I liked Brandon Routh, but I did think he looked more like SuperBOY than SuperMAN. But in his defense, it's probably because I'm older now.

However, when I look at Chris Reeve, I don't see a boy, I see a man. I guess it's all attitude.

if routh had an eyebrow trim , and a more conservative haircut , a little less metro...
i think it'd be perfect.
( still- i like thomas gibson for it )

[crazy_asian_man]

I liked Brandon Routh, but I did think he looked more like SuperBOY than SuperMAN. But in his defense, it's probably because I'm older now.

However, when I look at Chris Reeve, I don't see a boy, I see a man. I guess it's all attitude.

I don't think there is an alternative to Routh- primarily because the restrictions of casting (following in Reeve's footsteps performance-wise and likeness-wise) that make it next to impossible. I'm glad if, as the net seems to say, WB has come to the same conclusion.

Any known actor would be a tough sell. You're already trying to make an audience believe in a superhuman. Making the audience believe a known actor is a superhuman just makes the credibility stretch even more thin (It worked for "Iron Man" because the public image of Robert Downey's Jr.'s past history and Tony Stark are incredibly similiar, but Ben Affleck as Daredevil and Nic Cage as any superhero--- are nice attempts, but ultimately take the believability down a few notches because of their celebrity associations before the movie.)

Having said that Routh is the only choice I can envision, I have to admit I liked Routh's Clark Kent far more than Reeve's (it felt like the 'real' persona, rather than Donner/Reeve's idea of integrating comedy with Kent as a 'put-on')....and Reeve's Superman far more than Routh's. Reeve had the confidence and authority down, underneath the innocence under Donner's direction.

Routh's voice (to me) sounds so much like Reeve's, it's almost scary (in a good way), but - it might be partly how the costume is build differently from Reeve/Donner's version (it's funny how costume alterations can make a difference in perception)- with the smaller 'S' and how the cape is connected in the front- (I never had an issue with the darker shade, but the smaller 's' feels less intimidating in its smaller size on the chest. And, yes, I know it was that way originally in the comix, but....) - but also the performance could have had more of an edge when he confronts villains in the film as well. (One of the few weaknesses of the performance, I thought. When he holds his ground, Reeve comes across as a Superman you don't want to mess with--- when Routh does, it's ok....but.... not nearly as intimidating.)

Still--- it was a first feature film role, and according to the net, Routh's background hasn't had as much acting training as Reeve had in the theatre growing up- with the years that have passed since then, I'm sure (as with anything), a second go-round would come with polishes here and there.....just as many comment here about Reeve's performance in the first depowering footage by Donner when Reeve was first cast, to his performance years later in the theatrical.

[stargazer01]

Apr 20, 2009 18:31:11 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

Apr 19, 2009 16:07:06 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

I liked Brandon Routh, but I did think he looked more like SuperBOY than SuperMAN. But in his defense, it's probably because I'm older now.

However, when I look at Chris Reeve, I don't see a boy, I see a man. I guess it's all attitude.

if routh had an eyebrow trim , and a more conservative haircut , a little less metro...
i think it'd be perfect.
( still- i like thomas gibson for it )

What? What do you mean by 'less metro'?

Personally, I see nothing wrong with his eyebrows. On the contrary, I think it complements Brandon's look. It makes him look more manly, mysterious, mature AND sexy.

I've seen manips of him with his eyebrows trimmed, and you know what? I HATE IT. It reminds me of the gay guys who do it. So, no thank you. Besides, a lot of artists draw Superman with heavy and bushy eyebrows like Brandon's. And, as a member of the opposite sex, I prefer it that way.



On the hair, well, I can understand where some people are coming from, but I liked his hair; it was old school/classic Superman hair. It reminds me of these images of the character. My guess is that that's what Singer was aiming for. At least his hair moved with the wind.. Personally, it works for me. I loved it how his Superman was the strong and quiet type. He also came on stronger to Lois than Reeve's Superman. I think this was an improvement to the personal interactions between these two. I always felt that Reeve's Superman acted like an adolescent in his relationship with Lois. IMO, that doesn't work anymore.





Know what I thought the first time I saw him in the suit (during the plane rescue)? Me: "God, Superman came back looking younger... AND hotter.



*ends rant*

[crazy_asian_man]

On the hair, well, I can understand where some people are coming from, but I liked his hair; it was old school/classic Superman hair. It reminds me of these images of the character. My guess is that that's what Singer was aiming for. At least his hair moved with the wind.. Personally, it works for me. I loved it how his Superman was the strong and quiet type. He also came on stronger to Lois than Reeve's Superman. I think this was an improvement to the personal interactions between these two. I always felt that Reeve's Superman acted like an adolescent in his relationship with Lois. IMO, that doesn't work anymore.

The old 's' curl is distinctive- which is what I liked about it, but it's not a killer if it's not there for me.

Superman as strong and silent type.....sometimes. I didn't have any problems with Routh in SR (as I've said he's the ONLY choice imo right now)...but the idea of him being strong/silent all the time...hm...

To me, if focused on too much, being the strong silent type feels a bit at odds with years of seeing him in ads in comics touting this, that, and the other thing in public. Being in the public spotlight for so long, what Reeve brought was someone comfortable enough with the spotlight being on him (though he shouldn't SEEK the spotlight) and being asked to speak when needed. (a good example would be his handling of crowds in STM by the end and his speeches in SIV at the U.N.)

Not that Superman should be a chatty person- but when asked to speak, there's a certain air of authority that Reeve projected that I think Routh doesn't quite reach. Unfair comparison? Yes, but.... again, it took Reeve time to get comfortable in Superman's shoes- I have a hunch another film would give a stronger performance just through more experience the second time around for Routh.

As far as his interaction with Lois--- you're RIGHT ON when you mention that Superman acted like an adolescent schoolkid next to Kidder's Lois-- which I thought was the point in the first two films (also that BOTH were, on a certain level, good people but adolescents under the adult facade....which added to the charm).

For SR- I agree that a different type of interaction needed to happen- both had to be more mature adults, especially with a kid involved. I should clarify that there are a few times that I thought Reeve's Superman was better than Routh's- but the personal moments with Routh and Bosworth -to me- couldn't be done better. It's hard for me to picture another actress that would have had the same chemistry with Routh in the film as Lois.

With STM, Lois was, in some ways, the more 'streetwise' experienced character of the two of them--- In SR, I agree that that dynamic wouldn't have felt very good on any level, given the storyline. They have a history, (although the secret identity thing between them after having a kid is still something a little weird that I think Singer would have addressed in MOS), and the story is more painful/bittersweet because it is between two mature adults that might never be able to be with each other...

(((*Tangent, but....as I write about SR and the situations in the movie, it really brings up how crappy it is that that tragic love triangle between Supes/Lois/Richard we will never get to see resolved in ANY form, if we never get a chance to see it on the bigscreen.

Unlike "Pushing Daisies", where the writer is determined to give closure through comic books for his series that had a cliffhanger--- I doubt Singer and his writers will share the same enthusiasm to put that out in comic form. There were rumors that he might have done an x-men comic years ago, but that still hasn't happened years later, so....*sigh*)))

[stargazer01]

CAM said,
The old 's' curl is distinctive- which is what I liked about it, but it's not a killer if it's not there for me.
I love the curl. It's iconic. I prefer it to be there.


Superman as strong and silent type.....sometimes. I didn't have any problems with Routh in SR (as I've said he's the ONLY choice imo right now)...but the idea of him being strong/silent all the time...hm...
Yeah, I know what you mean, but, IMO, Superman's characterization worked for this particular story. In a way, Superman was going through a very difficult phase. He was feeling very disconnected from humanity. He came back a different Superman than when he left.

This is what Singer himself said on this subject:

VOICES FROM KRYPTON: I love the fact that this movie is connected to the Donner film, but I wonder if there is a risk of doing that at the same time.

SINGER: No, because there’s enough going on in it that you don’t need to have seen the Donner film as a compendium, but Superman has to look and sound and feel as though he stepped out of your collective conscious of who the character is. In most people’s conscious and subconscious, the character shines most brightly from the Richard Donner film. When I see a film I deem a classic, I know I have to make something new, I know I have to depart, but it doesn’t make sense for me to depart all the way. It would be great to have Christopher Reeve, but we don’t have that option. At the same time, Brandon, for all of the moments that he channels Christopher Reeve, is a very different character; a very different Superman.

VOICES FROM KRYPTON: What does he bring to this character?

SINGER: He brings a vulnerability to the character that this particular story requires. Lois Lane has moved on, she has a fiance, she has a child. Superman hasn’t been around for five years and he has to face this, and Brandon brings a kind of vulnerability. Whereas Christopher Reeve played the character with a greater sense of confidence and at times flirtatious, this Superman finds himself more lost and ultimately more vulnerable as he tries to redefine his place in the world.

Link:
www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/VoicesFromKrypton/news/?a=5927



To me, if focused on too much, being the strong silent type feels a bit at odds with years of seeing him in ads in comics touting this, that, and the other thing in public. Being in the public spotlight for so long, what Reeve brought was someone comfortable enough with the spotlight being on him (though he shouldn't SEEK the spotlight) and being asked to speak when needed. (a good example would be his handling of crowds in STM by the end and his speeches in SIV at the U.N.)
Well, this was the story that Singer wanted to tell. It worked for some, not so much for others, and some even hate it to death.

Also, Reeve couldn't save SIV if you ask me. He wasn't great All the time actingwise, including STM and SII. I think he was perfect in the role because he embodied the character, had the right voice and was a very solid actor. He was the right fit. That's what makes him perfect casting to me, not that he was flawless in the role. At least I haven't seen him in anything to consider him a great actor. I know this is blasphemy in this board, but this is how I feel.

I feel the same exact way about Brandon. He absolutely embodies the character for me. He makes a fantastic Superman, not just an ok one. He even gives me things that not even Reeve gave me in his movies, like when he arrives to New Krypton (the crystal island), and when he faces that crowd in the stadium. I have Superman in the flesh right there. I think that he (like Reeve) has the presence. And I also think that he can be impossing and commanding if needed to be. I saw some of that in SR. There probably weren't enough moments of that to some people's tastes, but the story didn't focus on that. It was more of a personal and instrospective story about how Superman felt.


Not that Superman should be a chatty person- but when asked to speak, there's a certain air of authority that Reeve projected that I think Routh doesn't quite reach. Unfair comparison? Yes, but.... again, it took Reeve time to get comfortable in Superman's shoes- I have a hunch another film would give a stronger performance just through more experience the second time around for Routh.
I'm pretty sure that we didn't see all of what Brandon is capable to do in the role. I feel like he was just in first gear in SR. I think he can be a pretty badass Superman if given the opportunity, the right script and a good director.

As far as his interaction with Lois--- you're RIGHT ON when you mention that Superman acted like an adolescent schoolkid next to Kidder's Lois-- which I thought was the point in the first two films (also that BOTH were, on a certain level, good people but adolescents under the adult facade....which added to the charm).
No doubt it was charming but a bit too much sometimes, IMO. Superman lowered himself to Lois' level way too much to my tastes, but that's probably not Reeve's fault but the director and the writers'. This is a god we are talking about.

For SR- I agree that a different type of interaction needed to happen- both had to be more mature adults, especially with a kid involved. I should clarify that there are a few times that I thought Reeve's Superman was better than Routh's- but the personal moments with Routh and Bosworth -to me- couldn't be done better. It's hard for me to picture another actress that would have had the same chemistry with Routh in the film as Lois.
I liked Kate but I do imagine other actresses doing an even better job, personally. BTW, a lot of people think that Kate and Brandon didn't have any chemistry. I don't agree, I think they looked cute together. I just wish Singer had given her a sexier look; she looked too thin and that hair wasn't great either, IMO.


With STM, Lois was, in some ways, the more 'streetwise' experienced character of the two of them--- In SR, I agree that that dynamic wouldn't have felt very good on any level, given the storyline. They have a history, (although the secret identity thing between them after having a kid is still something a little weird that I think Singer would have addressed in MOS), and the story is more painful/bittersweet because it is between two mature adults that might never be able to be with each other...

(((*Tangent, but....as I write about SR and the situations in the movie, it really brings up how crappy it is that that tragic love triangle between Supes/Lois/Richard we will never get to see resolved in ANY form, if we never get a chance to see it on the bigscreen.
Unlike "Pushing Daisies", where the writer is determined to give closure through comic books for his series that had a cliffhanger--- I doubt Singer and his writers will share the same enthusiasm to put that out in comic form. There were rumors that he might have done an x-men comic years ago, but that still hasn't happened years later, so....*sigh*)))
I think Singer set up a great and epic drama for a fantastic sequel. Unfortunately, we won't see it. *sigh* indeed.