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Post by snoopkryptodog on Apr 19, 2009 8:02:18 GMT -5
I agree with Evil Supes - that moon sequence was excellent. Bravo! I also like your precredit sequence, though I do have one suggestion to improve it. The transition between music cues sounds awkward, specifically the transition from the curtain pull theme to the krypton theme. I'd suggest either going with an extended krypton theme running over the curtain pull (which admittedly means you'd lose the curtain pull theme and the connection to STM opening comic book sequence). Alternatively, stick with the curtain pull theme until you hit the drum roll that leads into the Superman March. Keep the drum roll, but insert the krypton theme here. Drum roll ... horns. You can add some shots of space travel to make up the difference. While not a perfect visual match for STM, it would make the musical transition less abrupt.
I also think your cut from the exploding missile to the DP is too abrupt. Could you add a visual of Superman flying into Metropolis and changing into CK?
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 19, 2009 13:35:10 GMT -5
Very nice work CAM. The reaction shots from Hal Holbrook work perfectly. Since you said the sound has to be changed, I'm assuming "Artimis, Artimis come in please. Houston calling." as well as the rest would be placed over "Capricorn one this is Houston." And I'm sure fixing the names of the astronauts written above their heart monitors will be easy too.
I also think you should use the line "Get me the President" from the 3 hour cut STM. Maybe use some of the footage as well. Like the Presidents assistant picking up the red phone with the call from the Pentagon (maybe use that scene too, "It can't happen here.") while he's out playing golf. This might actually help the narrative. Let's us know that they're aware of what's going on. This is assuming of course you can make the footage widescreen, and maybe clean up the grainy-ness as well.
Way I see it, since these scenes aren't cannon, might as well put 'em to use here.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 19, 2009 15:56:13 GMT -5
 holleeeeshit ! that moon attack was absolutely amazing!!
damn , its like you read my mind- THIS is the scene i would have chnaged FIRST ( if i knew how th eheck to do it ) and that capricorn one footage really added to the gravity of the scene- there is no way mission control would just shrug off an astronaut flatlining like that. i need to see that actual movie , btw.i agree with the above comment that when hal holbrook goes to the red phone we need to see a cut to a government agent picking up a red phone. i will root around some politcal thrillers and see if anything comes to mind, and as to the flag sequence, i fail to see why there is so much malcontent pissiness about superman returning the flag. so what ? superman is a hero of the world , but he is also a deputised agent of the secret service ( true ) and its his job to be called on to protect teh president . cam- you are exactly correct that superman would be politically neutral and not-involved in war. but having said that he would be beholden to his homeland. i understand it would add to the scope/scale of the movie to see worldwide destruction- but since the story takes place in america i see why the focus is here, it could 3 hours of running time of zod just going from country to country kicking out every nation-state ruler just so the audience could feel its " equitable " . sheesh! lets make it a 10 hour series where we explore the local politics of every soveirgn nation in turn .... yeah , THATS a narrative...   no, zod landed in america , because thats where the nasa signal came from . he took over THAT government first , and when the other international leaders saw what happened they rolled just like president e g marshall. it was not at all jingoistic or unilateral. ( i geuss some people have a chip on thier shoulder , maybe we should have a movie where sherlock holmes rescues the czar of russia , robin hood rescues the sultan of persia , a samurai travels to england to save the queen , a royal knight of king arthurs court travels to imperial china to help build the wall...
THAT way characters rooted in specific cultures/countries would not be limited to tghier homelabd and could " save " the rest of the world ... )excellent work cam .
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 19, 2009 15:58:58 GMT -5
cam , do you intend to still use the east huston sequence ? imo- its a totla gaffe that zod would mistake a dirt-road podunk for the capitol of a nation that had vessals on the moon. the whole thing is awful , even with the gags trimmed out. also , looking at the moon sequence you re-edited, i hope you consider .." punishing " yourself a little less when it comes to all that rotoscoping and cut-and-pasting you want to do for the metropolis battle. a little goes a long way.   |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 19, 2009 17:38:58 GMT -5
I think something similar to the 'Donner Cut Reconstruction Speculation" page here on the site could be done with the Idaho scenes. Rotoscope Zod on top of the Washington Monument to give his speech, while using footage from the 3 hour cut of STM for crowd reactions.. Rotoscope Ursa using her heat vision to change the faces on Mt. Rushmore. Rotoscope Non melting the Eiffel Tower. This could be done using the footage of the villains in the Idaho scenes, and using them for a newer better scene.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Apr 19, 2009 18:10:00 GMT -5
No don't! ATP will have lost his life's purpose! It's best for him it isn't done. He needs something to protest for! ;D
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 19, 2009 20:20:44 GMT -5
I think something similar to the 'Donner Cut Reconstruction Speculation" page here on the site could be done with the Idaho scenes. Rotoscope Zod on top of the Washington Monument to give his speech, while using footage from the 3 hour cut of STM for crowd reactions.. Rotoscope Ursa using her heat vision to change the faces on Mt. Rushmore. Rotoscope Non melting the Eiffel Tower. This could be done using the footage of the villains in the Idaho scenes, and using them for a newer better scene. these are excellent ideas |
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 20, 2009 12:47:11 GMT -5
I think something similar to the 'Donner Cut Reconstruction Speculation" page here on the site could be done with the Idaho scenes. Rotoscope Zod on top of the Washington Monument to give his speech, while using footage from the 3 hour cut of STM for crowd reactions.. Rotoscope Ursa using her heat vision to change the faces on Mt. Rushmore. Rotoscope Non melting the Eiffel Tower. This could be done using the footage of the villains in the Idaho scenes, and using them for a newer better scene. Yes! This is an excellent idea. Surely it could be easy to do today with CGI technology? Won't someone try to do it? Please? |
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Post by Sverdlovski on Apr 20, 2009 13:04:17 GMT -5
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 21, 2009 8:57:05 GMT -5
I love how you added the LC footage of Supes in the chamber. I'm not completely dissatisfied with the body double, but I'd like to see Reeve's face during that scene as much as possible.
I like the idea of Jor-el's head being a different color for when we see 'recorded' Jor-el as opposed to his actual 'spirit' self talking to his son. Me personally I don't like the takes used by Thau during this scene. Hackman seems like he's just whizzing through the lines, especially when he mentions the cocker spaniel. I suggest looking at Selutron and Veris' takes on this scene as far as better takes. Me personally I can't stand Eve saying Zod is 'cute'. Takes away the severity of the whole siuation IMO.
For the depowering, my biggest problem with the Donner Cut (besides all things mentioned to death already), is that it feels like they simply took the footage and put it into the movie. Something any of us could've done in a day. During the scene there is no music until the chamber appears. CAM, you've made brilliant use of the "Lois jumps into the river" music for the DP jump. Now lets see if you can use the music from when Supes talks to his mother and put it here. I've seen this done by a few editors before. One of which even dubbed over Reeve's "I Love her" with the audio from when he says "I Love her" to his mother in the LC. Better delivery of the line if you ask me.
For more ideas on how to put your depowering scene together (editing and/or removing a few lines, which close-ups of Lois to use, etc...), I suggest looking at ALL the edits of this that people have done and put up on youtube. There's a good 5 or 6 of them up there.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 23, 2009 18:33:01 GMT -5
what are your intentions for the east huston scenes ?
( sorry if you already mentiooned that - i missed it )
trim out campy bits ? ( what would be left ? )
rotoscope zod over other stuff? ( glutton fo rpunishment )
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Post by Ollie W on Apr 23, 2009 23:45:27 GMT -5
Hey cam with regards to your re-coloring of Jor-El. It's not a bad effort. The shots of just the head where you've got the background from Jor-El's reveal in STM work fairly well. Just not totally sold on the blue effect. A bit overdone I think. Actually I seem to remember in one of the STM docs they showed a series of tests for how to portray Jor-El in the fortress and I think one example looked a little like yours.
It's such a shame what Thau did with this scene because the way Jor-El was portrayed for the de-powering and re-powering scenes worked well enough. Then we have what could have been a greater moment when Jor-El is revealed in his entirety and in color. But unfortunately it's compromised by the scene previously with Lex.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 15, 2009 10:52:29 GMT -5
Awesome work CAM!! I really can't wait to see your finished Metro battle scenes.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 15, 2009 13:50:46 GMT -5
Thanks, Tyler!  Now that I've come across a giant cache of decent Times Square footage, it's a lot more possible to finish that sequence the way I think Donner might have done it. If he insisted on shooting on location for the helicopter sequence, would have been awesome if he insisted on shooting on location for the Times Square/Metropolis battle. (even though I know there were giant problems with that--- the results for the helicopter sequence is of course classic). |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 30, 2009 20:16:50 GMT -5
Very nice work CAM. I knew you could easily do something like that with your skills. I'm guessing that shot is from the Lester cut FOS scene when he duplicates himself and Non goes flying into him. Amazing how you're able to use Lester footage and put it to better use huh?
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 31, 2009 9:45:28 GMT -5
"it's amazing (in a sad way) how unfinished the Donner cut feels that almost every scene feels like it needs retouching and compromise to really come close to the script and the spirit of STM"
You know, that's how I felt about the Donner Cut when I first saw the clips online right before it was released. Like they just took the scenes and cut and pasted them into the movie, something any of us could've done. No music, no editing, nothing.
Before I let you know how I feel about the edit, let me just say that I think, had Donner stayed on, he might've re-shot a few things here (as he's said numerous times on the commentary). I noticed that when she's staring at him, the zoom in on Clark shows him looking at her with a face of worry, like "Does she know?", but then in the next shot when she gets up to start drawing, he's looking at Jimmy again. Bad continuity, or maybe I'm just over-thinking it (a problem I think all us fan editors have of course lol).
So, my take on your edit. Instead of showing that look of shock on Lois' face twice (I noticed you re-looped the same shot and zoomed in on her face more), take out the zoom in of Clark when he looks at her, and put the Superman shot there. OR, even better, do some sort of fade where Clark turns right into Superman. It may not have been in the script that way, but you never know.
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atp
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Post by atp on May 31, 2009 18:26:02 GMT -5
I'm taking a little break on SII- East Huston and the pink bear are more headaches as far as creative decisions, go. Very open to viewpoints on this. Originally: #1: Idea was to really try to duplicate the Mank script- with crowds at the Washington monument- Rotoscope Zod giving his speech, audio from what he'd given at the small town, then destroying the monument. Some footage from Forest Gump (though sadly there wouldn't be footage of people scattering that I'd have to figure out). #2: But now, with Selutron's footage of the attack/landing of the villains, the continuity is out of whack. In using his footage (which saves a LOT of rotoscope time), there are no crowds at the monument- so the 'real' Mank scene can't be recreated. Instead- possibly... in the Mank script, there's a spot where, at the end of the Metro battle, Zod rises up in the sky and says a few threatening words to the people of Earth--- possibly I could put Zod's speech there. I definitely hate to lose it. Also, there are tiny other zod/criminal bits that I would have loved to figure out a way to keep (In a deleted LC scene, Zod signals Non to toss the car light at the kid. I would have rotoscoped Non tossing a car, but it seems a bit too brutal, even though I'd want it to be a darker film.) Again, open to ideas. The scraps here and there of Zod and company I'd love to find creative ways to include. I do have Supes' grabbing Zod's neck in a wrestling hold rotoscoped into the Metro battle (it's on the preview clip), but haven't found a way yet to also maybe preserve the rest of the stuff with the battle in the Fortress. I've seen the excellent way that one cutter had Supes use his heat vision on Non- but having a transition from that to the RDC seems a bit funky. Open to ideas on that, for sure. (hint hint) CAM have you seen this footage here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2fm65qOmY8Seems to be a lot of unused stuff you could rotoscope from, including a lot of crowd scenes. Could this work together with the monument? |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 31, 2009 20:10:06 GMT -5
Now that time has passed, and I listen to commentaries on re-edited films with little extra budget ("Payback" by Donner's protege, Brian Helgeland, is an interesting one for sure)--- I get glimpses of HOW tiny a budget can be for a straight-to-dvd re-edit. I can forgive a lot more for Thau, but I can't forgive some of the overcutting that created a lot of sloppiness in continuity that wasn't necessary (why trim the Donner part of the moon attack? Why waste man hours (and money) on trying to 'rescore' scenes that weren't necessary to rescore (again, the moon attack sequence) and use that money for better fx? Why a bouncing head for Marlon Brando? And on and on.... Anyhow, old tangent. I totally get what you're saying on the Donner cut. I had an old friends over that night the Donner cut was available, salivating over something I'd waited decades for, only to almost scream out in horror over how badly edited just about EVERYTHING was. It's even more revolting is that no matter what, there's no access to the Donner footage (really) to do a proper cut for free. If nothing else, I'll give Selutron major props to editing it better than Thau did, if he can get WB to let SOMEONE have access to the old footage and edit it better than THau. About the idea for the cut: good eyes, and thanks, I may try that idea for the change! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 5, 2009 4:30:02 GMT -5
NEW SHOTS: Zod spun by Supes and rearranged- www.youtube.com/watch?v=obJRppfVRZESound and backgrounds need a little tweak, but hopefully this ramps up the scene a little. (At least there's no laughing crazy woman in the car shot and less of the cheap dummy shot) |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 5, 2009 9:32:20 GMT -5
Interesting idea CAM. No shots of people laughing, more close ups of Supes face. I take it those swinging shots are from 4 when he throw the missiles into the sun? It's funny you did this because I've had an idea for a while now but never mentioned it because I knew there was no way I could do it. I have a feeling you can though CAM.
Since you were able to do the blur of Clark going down the steps when Lois jumps out the window, maybe you could speed up the footage of Superman swinging Zod around and add a whirling, wind/ tornado-ish effect around them, and also show Zod and Supes turning into a black and red and blue blur. I have a feeling that Donner might've done something like that. You'd have to speed up Zod flying into the Coke sign too.
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matt
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Post by matt on Jun 6, 2009 12:48:41 GMT -5
That is really neat!!! |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 6, 2009 12:50:58 GMT -5
I like what I see so far. Can't wait to see the final effect. Looks like you're gonna literally knock this one outta the park lol.
Another idea I have is (and I think the only person I've seen do this is Veris) is take out Reeve smiling when he says "Don't do it!!" right before Ursa and Non throw the bus. However, he took out all the dialogue, leaving Supes only shouting "No!" I think a better idea would be to either have him say "Don't do it!!, the people!!" very quickly (taking out the beat of silence between the sentences and have him say them back to back) while the shot is on the bus, instead of Reeve's face. So the dialogue would simply be moved to a different shot.
This way, we get all the dialogue, and no blooper of Reeve going out of character. Plus I think having him say it all faster is more in line with the character. Why would Superman stand there and plead with them after having this huge battle?
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jun 9, 2009 4:07:28 GMT -5
Nice work CAM, I especially like saving the tower. I think Zod pointing at Supes can do with some tighter cutting. So far when he points you show him walk forward, but perhaps you could just cut to him in the shot after (in the distance). It might look smoother. Other than that, it looks very impressive. |
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Post by Ollie W on Jun 9, 2009 4:27:12 GMT -5
Hey Cam is it at all possible to include the dialogue "somehow I just can't hear you Zod" from the RIC?
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Jun 9, 2009 8:50:17 GMT -5
Once again, a perfect example of how Lester's footage can be put to better use. I especially like this new shot of Superman grabbing the tower. SO much better than the theatrical version. Nice job CAM!!
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