Not a CAM cut: ugh preview warnings

[EvilSupes]

Yeah it really makes it the scene more dramatic and exciting to watch.

[EvilSupes]

That works pretty good CAM. But, is it possible to not have the backgrounds moving as much when Supes flies? I know you are trying to simulate the flying with Supes passing objects, but it seems a little a little weird in some places to watch. I understand this is a work in progress, just wanted to know if this was being acknowledged or not.

[Jor-L5150]

CAM , you're amazing.

( as for thau - he had his hands full with donner telling him " cut that ..cut this ...cut that ...ending ? i dont have one .." as much as i am " mixed " about SIIRDC , at least some of the hang-ups arent thau's fault )

[TylerDurden389]

First let me say I'm glad you made a new video. I was in Florida for 2 weeks so I haven't been around the boards.

This is a good first draft. Me personally I like the fortress being green and dark when he's powerless, so I would've made the Donner footage color match the Lester. Very nice job replacing Reeve's scream with the Lester audio.

I'd like to see (if possible) you lower the pitch of Reeve's voice so that it's a bit deeper, without lowering all the audio as well. Veris did this with Stamp's voice in the Donner footage so it matched the Lester sound. I've also seen this done in one of the other S2 fan-edits (can't remember which one, I've seen so many lol), but he made Reeve's voice TOO deep.

Other than that, I would simply like the shot of the green crystal lighting up taken out and replaced with something else. I know that was shot specifically for the Donner cut, and it doesn't match up. The crystal is black around the edges, and the burnt/black crystals look fake/cheap. I suggest watching Selutron's take on this part again and maybe coming up with something new for those shots.

Looking forward to the finished product!!

P.S. Something I forgot to say when you did the video of Supes spinning Zod and adding the wind effect. I was thinking it should be something like the effect used in the Diner revenge scene at the end when Clark spins Rocky on the chair.

[atp]

I also like it.

But do you think that you could intersperse shots of the villains around the world to rule it and destroying key monuments?

[Jimbo]

ATP, do you even read any posts to make sure your Villains Rule The World joke makes sense? It comes off like YouTube spam.

CAM, the color difference between bright blue and dark green Fortress is pretty apparent. Perhaps instead of brightening the darker shots, you should darken the bright shots.

You should focus on which performance is better. I prefer his reshot performance. Lester cut for the whole beginning, and then transition to Donner when he picks up the crystal.

[crazy_asian_man]

I also like it.
But do you think that you could intersperse shots of the villains around the world to rule it and destroying key monuments?

Sure. In CGI, of course.

[Jimbo]

Jul 1, 2009 1:43:08 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Can't help but wonder how this would have played out as is with Baird editing and if Donner had a chance to finish.....Donner said he would have reshot the Brando stuff, but would he have changed more here? Wonder as always....

With the fallout between Brando and the producers, it stands a good chance that Donner too would have been forced to cut Brando out from the picture. Donner's firing and Brando's suing for profits were two separate issues.

[Jor-L5150]

Jun 30, 2009 3:31:55 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

UPDATE: JUNE 29th, 2009:
My own take at remixing the infamous Repowering bit---
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P61Vv_o-FlM

Audio is half done....some music cues are repeated/not mixed as well as I like, but primarily two objectives:

#1: Keep as much Donner as possible
#2: Remove the poor Thau choices (including removing a rotten body double shot) in
Reeve's performance by mixing the Lester/Donner performance into one. (Is it smooth enough?)

Anyhow, the music transition is kinda sucky at the end, but hopefully the performance by Reeve is better...hoping, anyways...

just watched this again - really liked it

[SuperSnooper]

Hi CAM, great clips so far, wouldn't mind seeing the finished edit of your opus one day!

Other films that'll have NASA footage would be The Right Stuff (1981)(though it may be set in late 60s) also some library footage of the Space shuttle landings which you'll find in many documentaries.

Other films that may help, Countdown (1969), Meteor (1979).

Good luck with the edit.

[TylerDurden389]

To quote the cab driver in Lester's S2: "Man, this is gonna be GOOD!!"


(Though I actually hope that line DOESN'T show up in your cut. I feel Lester throwing that in was like he's telling the audience "Get ready for a big fight scene with special effects" like we don't know what's about to happen. Donner wouldn't have done it, so it doesn't belong IMO.

[ukdrummajor]

i think those two new clips are excellent.

definately add more tension.

[TylerDurden389]

Good job there CAM. I've read the original script once or twice, but I must've missed the tension beat that was to be before the villains break in. Personally, I think it works either way.

One suggestion I have is to maybe utilize the clip of the guy on the phone who says "Don't worry, NO ONE is gonna get in here!!". and instead of showing someone going through the wall in front of him, show the villains breaking in.

Second clip, THANK YOU for finding a way to take that woman out of the scene. I also like how you use the shot of Supes lifting the elevator and put it here. I do feel however, that the cuts are a little too quick. If you could find a way to make the actual rescue last a bit longer, I'd say you've got it.

Looking forward to more!!

[TylerDurden389]

BRAVO!!! CAM, this is beautiful!! This is by far the BEST edit of the depowering scene as far as matching the Lester footage with the Donner footage. GREAT job of rotoscoping Lois' nightgown onto her "Donner Cut" body. I do have a few nitpicks (though I'm sure you're gonna tweak this clip anyway). The shot of Lois opening her mouth to say something. I would use this shot later on. Either when Jor-el says he must become one of them, when he says his powers on earth would disappear forever, or when he says "once this is done there is no going back". The reaction shot will work in any of those spots.

I don't why, but I feel that, had Donner re-shot this scene (or just finished the movie in general), he would've edited this scene, as well as the dialogue. "After all I've done for them? Will there ever come a time when I've served enough?" just seems wrong to me. Hearing Superman himself talk about his own powers and what he does with them, I feel like it lowers the magic of the film, because it feels like Superman is breaking down his own character. Selutron cuts straight to "At least they get a chance for happiness" and I felt it works better. The shot of Lois after he says "So much stronger." should be used when he's flying towards the chamber. She turns her eyes in the right direction.

The shot of Brando raising his head and Reeve lowering his, once again, I feel that Donner would've edited this out and gone straight to Supes saying "Is there no way then Father?" or maybe even go straight to "Must I be denied the one thing...etc." I understand this is suppose to be a moment where the father is showing discipline over the son, but again I just feel that it's only here because they never edited this properly, and that it drags the scene on (especially since there's no music).

"Father, I love her". The line from the Lester cut will always work better for me. In the Donner Cut, Reeve almost sounds like he's hesitating/stuttering, like he's not sure about what he's doing, and is only doing this to rebel against his father. In the Lester cut, he sounds much more convinced. The shot of Lois closing her eyes works perfectly. The shot of Reeve just standing there looking back at Jor-el, why? If he's so sure of what he's doing, what is he waiting for? I think it works smoother if after he lands, cut to Lois, then cut to Jor-el talking, and THEN go to Reeve turning around and going in.

Ok, now the depowering itself. I LOVE how you used audio from the Lester cut, though I would love the all music from Lester scene used as well. It fits the mood perfectly, and it's better than hearing the same music cues during both the depowering AND repowering scene. I don't like the body double, but that's just me. The close-up of Reeve's face in shock...AWESOME!!! I don't know where you got that from, but it WORKS so well!! PLEASE leave that in. I would also remove the shot of Reeve walking through the fire and splitting in half, as well as the other shot of him splitting in half. I feel that Lester went the cheap route here, as if he's not giving the audience enough credit to figure out what's going on.

Love the use of the test footage of Reeve in the chamber, but the moving camera might be a bit much. Could you try keeping it still? Also, I know rotoscoping takes forever but, I like the shot of Lois covering her face. So you'd need to get her nightgown on her for that part. I DO like the shot of her her looking over to Jor-el. LOVE how you have her react to him staring at her, and then backing up. PERFECT. The only thing that ruins it for me is those damn trumpets blaring. That music cue is ALL OVER the Donner Cut. Oh, and the fading out of Jor-el could be slowed down just a bit. Lastly, I'd remove the body double shot AND reverse the shot of Reeve exiting the chamber just for continuity's sake. The Donner footage shows him entering from the left, so naturally he should exit that way to.

I know I'm being a lot more critical than usual, but that's only because you're getting closer and closer to finding the vision. I mean it CAM. You're doing what should've been done 3 years ago. Forget Selutron, you're coming up with great ideas that make the vision of the perfect Superman 2 a little clearer with every video you make. BRAVO, CAM. BRAVO!!

[TylerDurden389]

Nice vids CAM. We're getting closer to the "Villains Rule the World" scene aren't we? Donner's vision may be brought to life yet.

Ok, first the depowering. LOVE the way you got Lois to fix the knot on her robe as she approaches. Very nice shot. Again, not crazy about Superman talking about his powers, but it's your edit. I also still feel that the scene should have music in the b.g, but then again, this is a very emotional scene (if not one of the CORE scenes of the film), so maybe silence does work, depending on what you're going for.

Still think the shot of Lois looking to her right should be used for when he approaches the chamber, but I understand you gotta work with what you have, and it IS important to show Lois' reaction when he talks about her. The shot of him staring at Jor-el before he says "Think Kal-el" is still there though.

GOOD JOB getting rid of some of the "shakiness" with the test footage inside the chamber. I like how you put the crystal walls on the outside in those shots, as well as the new close-ups of Reeve's face. Glad you put the Lester music back in. Thank you for putting Lois' gasp back in too. I still wonder if, had Donner re-shot this, he would've added Lois into the conversation, or at least had her begin to talk and Superman would've told her to keep quiet or something. Guess we'll never know on that one. That shot if Superman splitting in half is still there, but again, your edit, your decision. Oh, and I'm glad you reversed the shot of him walking out. Overall, this edit is definitely an HUGE improvement.

New East Houston scene is great. Much more fast paced, and I like the extra fire you added in. Oh and Zod pointing out (signaling) for Non to use his heat vision, VERY COOL. The shot of Ursa flying through the billboard with the army car I'm not crazy about though.

Villains rule the world scene. Not much to say here since it's simply footage from another movie added in, but I DO like what you did with the Eiffel tower. I remember on the "Donner Cut Speculation" pages, it said that it should be the shot of Ursa approaching the Astronaut on the moon, with her rotoscoped into the background of the forest where they land (the scene with Zod walks on water). Show a shot of Mt. Rushmore, then a close-up of Ursa's face (after she pulled off the astronauts' ribbon) and add in heat vision. Then slow the shot of the faces changing (while also taking out the 3 of them flying above it of course). I KNOW you can do that CAM.

[atp]

Wow, I love your fine work!

[Keith]

The depowering scene.. Holy Shit! That was awesome! I loved it.

Man the chill I got when Lois looked at Jor'El and the glare he gave her... damn!

CAM that was superb!

I tried to view the other one but it wasn't put up.

[TylerDurden389]

Yeah the other video isn't working. Anyway, I preferred the depowering edit you made before this, with a few exceptions. I like how you removed the speeded up shots of the body double in the chamber, I wasn't crazy about that. I like how you edited the "Superman splitting in half" shot (cutting away right after the split). I like how the music builds up when Reeve exits the chamber. However, it means using the same piece of music twice.

Not crazy about that FLASH of light when Reeve enters the chamber in the test shot. Reeve shouting "FATHER!!"...eh. I guess it can be used here since you're gonna use the line from the Lester cut, but since we don't actually see him say it, makes it a little jarring IMO. Remove these 2 things and I'd say you've got it. We will have a depowering scene with NO LESTER Reeve shots at all (except for exiting the chamber).

One idea I think you should do is, add a red "Hue" to the new close-ups of Reeve's face. Since the inside of the chamber is red with the body double shots, it'll help the continuity. Just don't overdo it!! Oh, and don't forget to add the sound effects of the chamber door opening again when Reeve exits it.

[TylerDurden389]

CAM, I prefer your original take on the repowering that you made a while back. The shot of Reeve lying there was over silence, and I felt that worked better. Plus I liked that shot of him gasping in pain and falling down in that version. As well as those shots of him reaching out. I can understand you taking another crack at this scene since you have those new close-ups of Reeve's face. However, I think they should be used for the depowering ONLY.

However, I do commend you on doing a better job of using the music here. In your first edit of this scene, while I have no real problems with it (think it's fine the way it is), the music was jumbled around a bit, and being over-used/repeated. Now, I know you don't have your old edits on your original youtube page anymore, but I saved a lot of them. Would you like me to send it to you so you can use that as a template, making only minor changes? Or do you still (hopefully) have all those edits on your computer?

As far as the Eiffel Tower scene, if I were you I would try having the villains destroy it with their heat vision, making those big holes, instead of them flying through it. Like I said I'm not really feeling those shots of the villains flying around like that. But either way, good job!!

[Jor-L5150]

Jul 16, 2009 2:46:19 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

UPDATE: WEDNESDAY- JULY 15th, 2009:
2 BITS:
REPOWERING, (NOT de-powering) newest version with flashbacks + some new shots: (the last half of the repowering)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCCWFVkspM

i like the shot of him reaching up , and the shot of him falling down-

not sure how much of a recap-montage we need. just imo

[crazy_asian_man]

i like the shot of him reaching up , and the shot of him falling down-

not sure how much of a recap-montage we need. just imo

Cool! Thanks!

I'm split on the recap-montage. Primarily, it's trying to give more emotional 'juice' to the scene that I think was on the page, but somehow didn't translate to what came out in the RDC. To me, the speech scene of Jor-el as a baby should have had the same power as Jor-el saying goodbye to his adult son, now.....but since it didn't, thought I'd try it as a 'life going by in split seconds' only through Jor-el's eyes....and since the line says, "You will see my life through your eyes as your will be seen through mine", it was hard to pass up.

And....your opinion- especially if it conflicts with mine, definitely matters a lot. It doesn't mean that I automatically would change this or that, but coming from fellow devotees to the films, opinions especially here on this forum carries a lot of weight with me. As I said, terribly hard to be clear when the whole process of editing makes one sway back and forth on each and every decision. *sigh*

[TylerDurden389]

CAM, if I could, I would love to be there to help you put this thing together. Out of all the edits on S2 I've seen to this point, yours is definitely the most ambitious and for that I commend you (even if you haven't actually made a complete version yet lol). Sure I've seen people try to edit the footage of both versions together in order to make what they feel is a "complete" version of S2, but you've gone one step (ah heck, 10 steps) beyond to try to make the REAL complete version of S2 by making new scenes from whichever footage you can use, editing it how you choose.

I really do look forward to your completed version. I have dreams of alternate scenes, sequels, etc.. of the Superman movie universe. That's how much this stuff means to me. I grew up on these movies (well, parts 1 and 2 anyway), they mean so much to me. Even though there's been a lot of comic book movies made in the last 10 years, as great as some of them are, they'll never hold a candle to Superman 1 and 2 to me. Superman 1 and 2 still have that "magic" that I feel today's movies sorely lack.

But anyway, I've had a few drinks before I wrote this, so forgive me if I'm coming off as a little gushy lol. Btw, my name is Steve. Tyler Durden is Brad Pitt's character in the movie "Fight Club", and I've been using it as a screen name for every message board I go to ever since I saw it. It's one of my faves.

[TylerDurden389]

Really liking the outline you've got here CAM, and I'm VERY glad to hear that your first draft is almost done. Since you like the feedback I've been giving you, I'll give you my thoughts on the outline.

For the phantom zone trial recap, if you can, use the audio from STM BEFORE the 2001 restoration that Thau did. I can't stand that weird noise that was added in when the glass captures them. For the credits sequence, I really feel that Verisimilitude's second recap that he did about a year ago is pretty much perfect. Especially at the end when the shots of Superman seeing Lois' car in the crack, pulling the car out and lifting her out synch up perfectly with the music cues. I'd love to see a similar "Concorde" scene like the one Selutron did, but it ain't necessary IMO. I'm still trying to find a way to get his deleted youtube videos off someone's myspace page, but so far no luck. I've heard that it's possible to recover lost youtube videos and I would love to have them for reference.

Since you're gonna use the scene with Lois jumping in the water, I guess that means you won't be using that piece of music for the DP jump like you did originally?

The press conference is new, very curious to see what that'll be. When Superman is telling Lois about himself and the crystals, try to remember to cut out a lot of his stammering ("uh, um"). Are you gonna be using Selutron's actual scenes, or do you mean you've done your own take on these ideas? Also, any thoughts about putting the Suffle' scene back in? VERY GLAD to hear you're putting the IRC lines from the white house scene back in.

I'm also excited to see your new metro battle. I love the first one you did way back when, even if it was all over the place lol. For the part where Superman spins Zod and throws him into the Coca Cola sign, I hope you try a faster blur effect similar to the effect they did with the bully at the diner when Clark spins him on the bar seat.

As for the memory kiss scene, make sure to look over my edit on this again so you can tighten up the dialogue. Lastly, if you want, consider putting in the alternate flyby at the end where Reeve winks to the camera.

[Jor-L5150]

CAM -

when the repowering montage of Jor-El , seeing his life flash before him -
what if , those scenes were done as QUICK , silent scenes , just the music , a shot of lara and the baby , the trial , arguing with the council , the crystal ship breaks the cieling , seeing 18 year old clark/kal at the fortress .... just a few seconds , with music and " ....my son ..we will be with you...always..."

as opposed to sequences played out like the opening of the theatrical cut .


---------------

also - with jor's memory going by- are you implying that kal-el is psychically inhereting jor's knowledge/memory ?
does kal see what Jor sees ?
just wondered .

[Jor-L5150]

*(ugh) Memory kiss
*Verisimilitude POV of lost memories
*Shots of Lois waking up in bed
*Pizza scene w/Clark
*Insert deleted new camera by Jimmy/closet
*Change in alleyway
*Diner rematch
*Returning flag to white house (maybe insert closeup of President)
*Close comic- with new comic ending of smiling supes
*Applause by audience
*People leave the theatre
*End


THAT IS PERFECT .
exactly the WAY i would have wanted .