Post by crazy_asian_man on Oct 9, 2009 10:38:52 GMT -5
Thanks Ollie W & TylerDurden for additional feedback/reaction---
Like I mention, pro or con is good- and really appreciated. I know firsthand that it takes time and effort to write a detailed review, and I'm suprised how sharp everyone is at picking out which are LC and DC dubs/original voices/shots--- after looking at the footage so many times, much of the time it's a big blur now to me! (not the 'red and blue blur again' ;p )
With these cuts, I know there's things considered:
#1: intent
#2: execution
#3: resources available/ not available
#4: choice of standards- what compromises does one choose to be made based on resources available/not available
#5: how many hours does one want to spend making rotoscoping perfect before one moves on with living one's life? ;p
In a way I envy the idea of limiting one's work to blending the two films- and not going beyond. I do enjoy those cuts. But it still feels like something is always missing to me as is, more because of Lester than anything else.
I appreciate Ollie's mentioning that my intent went on a different level (adding new footage - composite or otherwise) - not saying better, just different- to make each scene bigger than what footage was available from the rdc and theatrical when possible, versus using footage that already existed in both the theatrical and rdc.
The problem with that intent is that it IS doomed to failure to a degree, I agree, with the ideas I wanted. As Ollie W mentioned-
Why?
#1: To match some of the ideas in the Mank script, there's not enough 70's footage available, that I'm aware of. I even modified some of the Mank script ideas (although I wasn't thrilled to) to try to generate the same spirit of sequences when otherwise it was impossible with what was available.
Stuff that sticks out because it doesn't match? Oh, absolutely.
The choice had to be made early on--- either really mismatching footage or dump the idea altogether or change the idea to try to match better. (much like the screen test decision by Donner/Thau)
Looking at the screen test, with Reeve's changing appearance every two seconds, it's a question of what one can stomach. I find it easier to stomach new footage in the battle scene background that move fast, than changing Glasses/hair in closeups.
I figure the footage that stands out (which still took a giant amount of effort and mental wrangling) takes the place of a drawn storyboard. Like the choice of the screen test in the RDC, if the idea conveyed is more important than the ability to execute 100%, one goes for it (or not= either is a valid choice) So it either has to be looked at that way in viewing, or it just won't work at all.
Similiarly, reusing flying shots for composites--- the fight scene would end up being a minute, tops, if I went with only using the same shots twice. Would it be better? Possible, but to me, it would be anticlimactic....although I agree 24 minutes is a bit too long.
There is a degree of chaos to the Metro battle versus Lester's - but it's partly a choice (but I think it's not necessarily much more chaotic than the rdc) of trying to make a feeling of urgency and danger with scraps of footage that never quite matches (though not because of not trying one's best).
Ideally, I'd physically SHOOT doubles in costumes against greenscreen (which I wish Thau would have been able to do for the RDC), but don't have that kind of money (or commitment to be fair) to juice up the fight properly--- but I'd also have to (ideally) either build models either in CGI or physical miniatures to also do that fight scene the right way--- but I didn't want to put on the expense of that--- so, did the best I could with limitations I chose, but agree that even then, still can be tightened in concept/otherwise.
But, to a large degree, as mentioned, it is doomed to failure with the resources. (I'm dying to see how Selutron tackled the Metro battle himself- is the battle short or was he able to expand it at all?)
About where I'm going next with this preview though---concept wise- to expand or to mainly keep and blend what's already there....
Personally, I'm a little torn.
It's hard to watch my own cut with it's footage compromises, even knowing that in many cases, it's a 'keep the idea with errors or lose the idea entirely' scenario.
On the flip side, when I watch the Lester or RDC cut now, (or other fan cuts), it's hard to view without feeling like this or that idea is missing and it bugs me.
SII to me, sadly feels like it'll forever be an not totally satisfying incomplete film in almost any form.
Wonder if Donner feels the same way? ;p
Like I mention, pro or con is good- and really appreciated. I know firsthand that it takes time and effort to write a detailed review, and I'm suprised how sharp everyone is at picking out which are LC and DC dubs/original voices/shots--- after looking at the footage so many times, much of the time it's a big blur now to me! (not the 'red and blue blur again' ;p )
With these cuts, I know there's things considered:
#1: intent
#2: execution
#3: resources available/ not available
#4: choice of standards- what compromises does one choose to be made based on resources available/not available
#5: how many hours does one want to spend making rotoscoping perfect before one moves on with living one's life? ;p
In a way I envy the idea of limiting one's work to blending the two films- and not going beyond. I do enjoy those cuts. But it still feels like something is always missing to me as is, more because of Lester than anything else.
I appreciate Ollie's mentioning that my intent went on a different level (adding new footage - composite or otherwise) - not saying better, just different- to make each scene bigger than what footage was available from the rdc and theatrical when possible, versus using footage that already existed in both the theatrical and rdc.
The problem with that intent is that it IS doomed to failure to a degree, I agree, with the ideas I wanted. As Ollie W mentioned-
Why?
#1: To match some of the ideas in the Mank script, there's not enough 70's footage available, that I'm aware of. I even modified some of the Mank script ideas (although I wasn't thrilled to) to try to generate the same spirit of sequences when otherwise it was impossible with what was available.
Stuff that sticks out because it doesn't match? Oh, absolutely.
The choice had to be made early on--- either really mismatching footage or dump the idea altogether or change the idea to try to match better. (much like the screen test decision by Donner/Thau)
Looking at the screen test, with Reeve's changing appearance every two seconds, it's a question of what one can stomach. I find it easier to stomach new footage in the battle scene background that move fast, than changing Glasses/hair in closeups.
I figure the footage that stands out (which still took a giant amount of effort and mental wrangling) takes the place of a drawn storyboard. Like the choice of the screen test in the RDC, if the idea conveyed is more important than the ability to execute 100%, one goes for it (or not= either is a valid choice) So it either has to be looked at that way in viewing, or it just won't work at all.
Similiarly, reusing flying shots for composites--- the fight scene would end up being a minute, tops, if I went with only using the same shots twice. Would it be better? Possible, but to me, it would be anticlimactic....although I agree 24 minutes is a bit too long.
There is a degree of chaos to the Metro battle versus Lester's - but it's partly a choice (but I think it's not necessarily much more chaotic than the rdc) of trying to make a feeling of urgency and danger with scraps of footage that never quite matches (though not because of not trying one's best).
Ideally, I'd physically SHOOT doubles in costumes against greenscreen (which I wish Thau would have been able to do for the RDC), but don't have that kind of money (or commitment to be fair) to juice up the fight properly--- but I'd also have to (ideally) either build models either in CGI or physical miniatures to also do that fight scene the right way--- but I didn't want to put on the expense of that--- so, did the best I could with limitations I chose, but agree that even then, still can be tightened in concept/otherwise.
But, to a large degree, as mentioned, it is doomed to failure with the resources. (I'm dying to see how Selutron tackled the Metro battle himself- is the battle short or was he able to expand it at all?)
About where I'm going next with this preview though---concept wise- to expand or to mainly keep and blend what's already there....
Personally, I'm a little torn.
It's hard to watch my own cut with it's footage compromises, even knowing that in many cases, it's a 'keep the idea with errors or lose the idea entirely' scenario.
On the flip side, when I watch the Lester or RDC cut now, (or other fan cuts), it's hard to view without feeling like this or that idea is missing and it bugs me.
SII to me, sadly feels like it'll forever be an not totally satisfying incomplete film in almost any form.
Wonder if Donner feels the same way? ;p
