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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 15, 2009 11:02:00 GMT -5
These are just little snippets I've done using Video Edit Magic 4.4. This is the first time I've attempted something like this, so please be gentle if there's any hard cuts.
First things first, tightening the dialogue.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 15, 2009 11:17:03 GMT -5
Interesting- I do like the DP with Paris trims, it does move much faster! Curious what's in store next. More, please!  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 15, 2009 14:51:45 GMT -5
Next comes scenes from the RIC that I feel should be put back in. Also used an alternate flyby that was never used in the films. I'd like to see the suffle' scene put back in as well.
Note that the RIC scene with Supes and Lois talking, while a Donner scene, has alternate dubbing. Maybe Lester planned on using it one point and had them re-dub the lines. Or maybe Donner had them re-dub it.
Again, please forgive the hard cuts and change in volume, I threw this together pretty quickly.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 16, 2009 10:30:14 GMT -5
I've mentioned the voice changes of Lois on other threads, too- Her voice seems too high to be Kidder in the arctic scenes in the RDC--- it was nice to see the IRC dub again- the performance, plus the music was always mixed in well on the ABC tv version. (As well as the balcony scene, I thought) The idea of inserting (if I get the rough video correctly) the Concorde flyby before the DP attack is interesting- a different kind of tension is put into it by seeing Supes on the way already, versus seeing Supes for the first time since the repowering on the flagpole. Interesting... More? |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 16, 2009 10:31:10 GMT -5
always room for more....  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 16, 2009 18:45:43 GMT -5
Ok, I know the "Feed the babies" scene doesn't make sense continuity-wise, but I like introducing him this way (since my fan cut would show Superman stopping both missiles after turning back time) and I just feel like the look on Hackman's face is a great way to segue' to the newspaper telling us what happens next.
I sped up Superman saving the boy at Niagra since he used to fall in slow motion (though some music editing would have to be done). Lastly, I tightened up the dialogue at the Planet. Maybe I just don't like Margo's performance under Lester's direction, or maybe it's because since my personal cut would have her say the exact same thing earlier, and I can't have her repeating herself with different feelings.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 17, 2009 3:06:45 GMT -5
#1: The "feed the babies" into the DP opening is an inspired choice- hmmm... #2: Thau speeded up Supes, too- I'm half/half on it. #3: Trimming of the Lester "memory kiss" dialogue- extra- hmmm.... if the audio is smooth to cut without sounding too strange, I may attempt that myself! The scene is so flat and cheap that I was never crazy about it myself (but then again, most of Lester's dramatic scenes left me cold)- but preferred it to the time-reversal bit for a second time. However, I never thought about trimming the dialogue down in that scene until you introduced this....hmmm! |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 17, 2009 13:26:48 GMT -5
Just so you know CAM, when I trimmed the dialogue there, I actually cut out certain shots and moved the audio as well. Basically, I cut certain shots out, while the keeping the audio of it, then moving that audio to different shots, and made sure it all synched up again. Took me a good 5 minutes just for that one part lol.
TBH I originally put the Concorde and Feed the babies scene back in just to see more of Reeve under Donner's direction. When he crosses his arms and gives Luthor that sarcastic smile, THAT is what Superman should be like. Under Lester's direction he just seemed too soft (though at this point it's obvious I'm not crazy about their performances under Lester's direction). Also, in Donner's scenes Supes' spit curl is more pronounced lol.
As far as trimming dialogue goes, yeah that was one of my nitpicks with other fan cuts. When I saw one editor trim the dialogue at the planet (and do it so seamless that I didn't even notice until a few viewings later), I decided to take a crack at it myself. I think with a little editing, even East Houston Idaho can be salvaged into something watchable. With the exception of dinner at the FOS, I would trim all the Lester scenes.
However, even though you've seen my bit with the concorde scene, I would still like to find a way to work in when Jimmy says Lois knows Supes' plan 'better than anybody'. I think it's a good way to remind us of the closeness they feel for each other.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 18, 2009 0:42:05 GMT -5
Except for the opening shirt change of SII- and "General, would you like to step outside", I'm with you in feeling Lester's direction was just too lazy overall. I can see how it burned up Donner to see the lazy footage by Lester, the footage that Donner had to fight like a bear to get, and see the whole thing get credited to Lester. Ow. I agree that the Concorde & Feed the Babies scene is great to see, mainly to see more Donner/Reeve footage. Again, I'm curious to see how it all plays out. And....sorry if I didn't notice all the efforts made on the scene- For the real theatrical Lester memory kiss scene, my mind usually glazes over so much, (since I find the scene so painfully cheap emotionally and productionwise) that it's one of the few scenes of Superman 2 I don't know by heart.... I'll have to check it out again and compare it to the original- BTW- please keep these coming! |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 18, 2009 10:33:54 GMT -5
That's ok if you didn't notice. I pointed it out so that if you try it you'd know exactly what you were in for. Believe me, compared to the stuff you've done it's really nothing major lol.
As far as putting up more, at the moment the only internet that's working in my house is on my brother's computer. I'll mention some ideas I have here, but now we're going into uncharted territory because a lot of ideas I have would require permission from other people who've had ideas that I would like to use for my cut.
Starting with the guy who posted the video on youtube who took the shirt reveal from part 3 and rotoscoped Reeve into the FOS, and I would add it to the end of your repowering scene.
Next I would want to get in touch with another editor I found on youtube who, while not altering the footage so much, he deepened the voices for Reeve and Brando during the depowering (I think he may have just slowed the frame rate down a pinch). Doing so made Reeve's performance more sincere, and I feel it actually added more depth and emotion to the scene as a whole.
(Update: Tried to put that video here and it said "embed disabled upon request". The guy's name is "Darthlongi" on youtube. He has some cool edits of his own, but this scene is the one I would use for my cut.)
Lastly, (and like you CAM this would be for my own personal cut only), I would also use the clips Selutron has done. I've already downloaded them from caped wonder and have edited them into the parts I would use them for, but of course I can't post them online since they're not mine.
When I get the time I'll post a complete outline of my cut. I just gotta get it all written down, and out of my head lol.
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Post by atp on Apr 18, 2009 14:06:09 GMT -5
Tyler, do you think you could somehow remove the East Houston Idaho stuff and replace with the sequence showing the villains around the world (to rule it) and destroying key monuments?
That's the only thing missing from all fan cuts IMO.
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Post by Paul (ral) on Apr 18, 2009 14:12:49 GMT -5
Tyler, do you think you could somehow remove the East Houston Idaho stuff and replace with the sequence showing the villains around the world (to rule it) and destroying key monuments? That's the only thing missing from all fan cuts IMO. you forgot to say "please". |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 18, 2009 15:16:14 GMT -5
1. Pedalero I believe is the one who did that roto of Reeve in the fortress with the shirt-rip. Jimbo asked me in the past to explore the idea, but couldn't get a jacket pasted onto Reeve convincingly - which I felt would help the continuity, rather than have the shirt and tie on suddenly from the moment before. (Though I guess it could be argued that he had the shirt and tie on under the jacket...but when does he take off the jacket in the repowering?)- anyways, that's why I passed on it, though it would be a cool moment, the trade off of the discontinuity is a little too much for my tastes. 2. I don't recall where, but I also came across clips where the pitch was slowed down on Reeve's repowering scene. (I did a similiar technique to a student film I did in the past to try to add more maturity to a person's voice- but...) The slowing of the voices I think I'm personally too aware of, and that's a pet distraction, but I can understand why one would go there. 3. I've had conversations with Darthlongi, great guy. 4. Looking forward to your outline! |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 18, 2009 21:30:18 GMT -5
ATP, as much as I would love to see this scene as well, you're talking to the wrong guy here lol. My edits are simple, to remove dialogue where I feel necessary, and to add scenes or re-arrange them to fit my personal tastes. This is the first time I've attempted anything like this. Verisimilitude's cut has a "villains rule the world scene", though not beat for beat from the script. I know he's been MIA for a while now but if you can get in touch with him, I'm sure he'd be more than happy to send you a copy.
Ok, my outline is:
1970's Warner's opening logo.
Reeve dedication (no music)
LC travel through space with DC opening music (but I'd like the red sun to be out back there)
DC trial recap (though I'd like to see that noise removed from right before the Phantom Zone sheet captures them, I noticed this in the 2001 director's cut of STM and since Thau worked on that, it's here to as well.)
Opening credits similar to the theatrical, Veris', or CAM's new version. However, I want the last few shots to be Supes flying away after Lois dies, him thinking about his powers, and flying up into the clouds. Then when the music builds up to hit that final note, we are coming towards the Earth, and when the song ends, we go right to Supes turning back time.
Selutron post time travel recap.
Feed the babies.
Lex Luthor scheme bombs.
Cut to DP Paris opening (we've already seen my edits on this).
The rest would be Veris' new take on this scene, save for some dialogue that would be scrapped when Supes saves Lois. I would remove "I believe this is your floor", "Oh thank God". And after he asks her is she's ok, cut right to her shouting there's a bomb. Also remove shot of her watching him as he flies up.
Elevator explodes, but since villains have been released earlier, I would cut the explosion short, add an echo to the sound and fading it out, and use footage of them flying to imply that they've heard it, and now know where Earth is. (I'll Post my edit on this once I get my internet back).
Selutron scene of Superman flying to the Daily Planet and changing to Clark in alley.
CAM's DP jump, except for lines "A Canary?", and "Something more in blue".
DC Lex in prison. I would love to see the extra lines of dialogue from RIC put back in here. "Infinite capacity to deteriorate". I also noticed that Otis' lines are spoken differently in the RIC when he says "Oh, with garlic and butter". I've put this back in as well.
LC Moon sequence, cut out hair dryer gag. RIC line "Men, to kill!!" "And I will lead" to be put back in.
DC prison escape, Veris' cut for Lex and Eve scene in hot air balloon.
Honyemoon haven scene, save for the bits I took out, and "It's alive".
Lex at the fortress IN FULL, meaning RIC cut of this scene, but once Lex puts the first crystal in, cut to Selutron's take on this scene. Then Veris' end of the scene (he used the best Hackman dialogue) Cut back to RIC after "She found it". Finish scene in full.
Niagra falls, heavily edited. No foggy glasses, no orange juice, Superman saves boy faster. Scene ends after Lois says "Clark is not around as usual."
Villains walking in forest, Ursa and the snake. (I only have this here for now because I need to break up the Niagra rescue scene with...)
Selutron blank bullets. Lovers fly north.
Selutron villains land in DC.
Selutron home movies. Superman explains past, save for lines I edited out. Maybe edit out "I'm sorry, see I really don't do too much about..." and cut right to "Tonight, sky's the limit". Finish scene as normal.
Selutron Ursa blows kiss, helicopter crashes.
"Where's Superman? Why doesn't he do something?"
Suffle' scene put back into dinner scene.
Selutron "So you are a general."
Darthlongi depowering.
Villains deface Mt. Rushmore, lovers in bed (doesn't matter if Lois opens her eyes or not, both work IMO).
DC Villains attack White house. I would like to see someone add bullet effects to when Zod and co. are shot. "What a backwards planet this must be." I'm on the fence about this line. Can work, but don't really care if it's in or not.
DC Diner.
DC Lex at White House, cut Non gag. Add RIC lines "Praying!!" "Yes to me!!"
DC Clark trek to fortress.
LC Clark admits failure. Though I've seen a cut where they used the DC scene and lowered Reeve's voice, except they lowered it too much. If I were to put these lines in, it would go like this, after LC Reeve says "I failed.", cut to DC "I traded my birthright etc..." however, add back in LC Reeve audio shouting "Father!!" over DC Reeve. If this were to be done, DC footage would have to match LC footage (darkness and shadows).
Selutron Clark discovers green crystal.
Jor-el speech, keep everything, but cut out "Once when you were small..." lines and go right to "Kryptonian prophecy".
CAM's repowering.
No junkyard reveal (continuity doesn't bother me.)
DC Daily Planet, with concorde scene in middle. Would like line about Lois knowing Supes plan "better than anybody" put back in.
Lex's doorknob line put back in. "Care to step outside?" as well.
CAM's metropolis battle. I would like RIC line "Somehow I just can't hear you Zod" put back in.
Veris Daily Planet after battle (he lowered Stamp's voice without lowering all the other sounds). Add back LC "Let us take his favorite".
Veris FOS scene. Would like to see RIC Lex and Supes dialogue put back in, as well as LC shots of Reeve in chamber.
Artic police save for "Smallville Strongboy".
RIC dialogue of Supes and Lois talking after FOS is destroyed put back in.
DC Supes and Lois on her balcony.
LC next morning, with edits that I've done. Upbeat music cue from "Can you read my mind" when they kiss. Perry looks at them from his office, confused. (I've seen someone do this on youtube. It implies that Supes doesn't make Lois forget.)
Cutaway to next day. DC Daily Planet, with dialogue edits that I've done.
DC Bully by elevator. Cut out Reeve walking into closet.
DC or LC Diner revenge scene. Either work for me.
LC Supes returns the flag.
Alternate flyby with Reeve winking at camera.
Opening scene from STM of Action Comics issue 1 being opened, reverse it.
Credits, doesn't matter which.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 19, 2009 3:46:20 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the outline, interesting choices- and I see a lot of similiar tastes- you were right I think in saying we have a lot of similiar aesthetics. The main thing that has me wondering is the opening that you have- it's definitely a lot longer, which for me is a little too slow to get started (as does Selutron's opening) but it does have the effect of making it feel far more connected to the first film. Also interesting that you chose to include the souffle scene. I know it was in the Mank script, but as Donner mentioned, the way lester shot it seemed so much like he misintrepeted the reading of the scene from the get-go... but at the same time, more scenes of Reeve as the character is always nice to revisit....
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 19, 2009 13:58:59 GMT -5
I'm glad you agree about our similar tastes. As far as the opening, I don't mind if it makes it a lot longer. For me it's not only just about having an action beat right from the start, it's also about explaining what he did after turning back time.
The soufle' scene I have an idea that might be worth tinkering with. Donner has said that the dialogue was supposed to imply that the two of them were about to have sex. How about this: Using the audio from the soufle scene, show various shots of the fortress. Starting with an outside shot, "I have to tell you something, I've never done this before."
Then a shot of the fortress from the inside (like the one when Lex first arrives there) "Don't worry, you're gonna be fine. Just, don't rush it."
Then a shot of the bed from the LC (maybe a freeze frame with depowered Clark and Lois approaching, with them matted out). This shows that they're not doing what we think they're doing since they aren't in bed.
Then either a fade into Superman using his heat vision (before the camera pulls back to reveal what they're actually doing), or maybe a close zoom of the same shot, then pull back to reveal. Similar to what's done in the scene originally, except the shot would start with a heavy zoom in (between their heads), and then a much longer zoom out to reveal what he's doing.
I'll do a quick attempt at this on my computer, put the video on disc and upload it online with my brother's computer. See what you all think.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 19, 2009 16:17:07 GMT -5
Here it is. Notice that the video I got it from changed the music from what was heard in the RIC:
And here's a quickie on my take of the villains hearing the explosion and flying towards Earth. In my fan cut Superman releases the villains with missile, AND directs them towards Earth with the hydrogen bomb. This one is very rough.
Notice I cut out more lines when Supes saves Lois. This is for time restrictions more than anything else. The bomb is supposed to go off in 60 seconds. I suppose if I wanted to keep the lines in, I could always remove "You'll have only 60 seconds to list them."
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Post by Bobby M on Apr 19, 2009 20:19:53 GMT -5
Superman II will only grow up to a very powerful level if we have that scene of the villains around the world (to rule it). I hope someone will realise this scene soon.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 21, 2009 1:14:14 GMT -5
REALLY nice job in 'reinventing' the souffle scene! Bravo! About the elevator scene: I thought about tackling this, too--- I agree that chopping dialogue between Supes and Lois can only help that scene- it was so flatly done by Lester... (closeups might have helped them, if the moment was important enough)- might even want to experiment with chopping out MORE dialogue, actually! |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 21, 2009 9:03:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words CAM. About the elevator scene, you think even more dialogue can be cut out? I suppose you can edit out "How'd I get myself into this" and just have music over it. But after that I think it would be weird to have the two of them there and not say a word to each other. Unless you can edit something and change my mind of course.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 21, 2009 12:59:28 GMT -5
I think ALL the dialogue can be cut out- "How's I get myself into this", "Are you alright?", "There's a bomb", "I know, I know..."---
But since Lester filmed it all in one take, I'd cut the split second after Lois goes to embrace Supes (before Supes speaks)--- to a cutaway of maybe either the Paris police looking through the binoculars--- then cut back as Supes pushes Lois away, and begins to lift the elevator. The downside of messing around with the timing is, of course, all the sound editing that has to be done, then. ;p
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Sept 25, 2009 10:36:25 GMT -5
Hi everyone. Just finished doing some more trims for my cut. Thought I'd share a few things with you guys. First things first, special thanks to CAM, Veris, and Pedalero. I've used bits and pieces from their cuts, as well as add/change things of my own. The 5 clips I put here are as follows: 1. New ending to opening credits - It ends with Superman finding Lois dead, and flying away to turn the Earth back. Not gonna say his name, but you know who I got the edited footage from  . 2. Honeymoon Haven - Deleted some of the bellboy's dialogue by doing a sound edit segue from outside. 3. Repowering - I want this scene to end on a high note, so I used Pedalero's "No Junkyard Reveal" clip, as well as another piece of footage. 4. "NO!! DON'T DO IT!! THE PEOPLE!!!" - An edit so quick and easy, I don't know why it hasn't been done already. 5. Lois remembers - In my cut, Lois will know his secret. So I end the scene on an uplifting note. I use the Donner Cut scene for the next morning after-wards, but edited it around to make it seem like they're going along with a joke. They have a secret that no one else knows about. 6. New ending - Used the Paris scene at the D.P. with edits. Ends after alleyway shirt reveal, as well as a few added shots from the KCOP cut. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 25, 2009 14:31:56 GMT -5
i never get tiredof these fancuts ! i'm silly like that. tylerdurden, that junkyard-reveal/repowering is one of my FAVEORIT home-made shots ever. i love it, its beautiful. hope you can make it work. the rest of your ideas are very interesting, and using the " feed the babies " as an intro is VERY clever. keep us posted good man. |
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 25, 2009 14:40:17 GMT -5
"NO, DON'T DO IT, THE PEOPLE!" is one of those "so bad, it's good" kind of things. I couldn't get the edit to work right, so I kept it. Thorne's music need not suffer because of it.
If you're editing the Donner version of the scene, then the music is different, and the edit can be much cleaner. But then, you're just dealing with horribly chopped up STM music.
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Post by snoopkryptodog on Nov 10, 2009 6:10:53 GMT -5
Assuming you can make these cuts and trims smoothly, you have an interesting set of changes here. It's too bad the rotoscoping on some of Selutron's clips was a work in progress, the footage can be jarring at times, so putting them into a fan cut may give the piece a "workprint" feel.
I've never been a fan of the memory kiss, so I'm happy to see you've taken it out. I've also always hated the notion of turning back time, not just for the impossibility of it, but for the fact that Jor-El twice warns Superman that it is forbidden to turn back time. Kal-El goes ahead and does it, and nothing happens. Worse, Lois seems to remember most of the events - what exactly did Supes change in the timeline?
Selutron's work at least explained some of Lois' remarks. It also pointed to a reason not to turn back time - in the new time line, the criminals are released. Alternatively, I remember an old fan cut where turning back time created ripples in the time space continuum, and it was those ripples that shattered the phantom zone. That idea might work too, cutting down the amount of time spent on a STM recap, and also avoiding the less than spectacular Donner footage of the villains' release (though I have seen several fan cuts that do a great job integrating the DC/LC footage).
The main contribution you're making here is trimming the Lester footage. Outside of the Paris sequence, which I'd cut completely (two nuclear blasts in space seems repetitive), I think much of the Lester footage is necessary for a SII cut that doesn't feel like a workprint.
I like your dialogue trims especially. Smoothly done, they get away from the campy feel of some of the dialogue, and some poorly directed acting, while retaining the elements of the scene that contribute to the whole of the movie. SII needs Lester footage reedited to have a more serious tone, not the outright removal of Lester footage.
I especially share a fondness for the souffle scene that others have expressed. I'd also encourage getting some notes from Jimbotron. I like the hybrid Lara/Jor El scenes he did, combining the superior Reeve acting with Lara scenes with the once missing Brando scenes.
Overall, you definitely have an interesting project here, even if I disagree with a few of your choices, based on my own preferences.
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