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Post by Jimbo on Apr 24, 2009 16:18:12 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, I know it's like the holy grail around here, but some things just really kill it for me. It's a darn good thing the rest of the movie is perfection, so the movie's not ruined. Anyway...
- Lex deducing that meteorites from Superman's home planet are lethal to him. (deadly........to him)
"Because of specific level of radioactivity?" How would Lex have even known it was radioactive? He didn't even know it existed until he ripped it out of the book.
Lex "deducing" that it's deadly to Superman is literally unlocking the secrets of the universe with a chewing gum wrapper. There's just too many assumptions and happy coincidences. If a planet blew up light years away, exactly what is the likelihood that fragments from it reached Earth?
- The only other thing I really hate is the ending, turning the world around. The Nostalgia Critic pretty much touched upon the main points: Stuff would fly off the Earth if that happened. Shouldn't there be a second Superman now? If Superman can fly around the Earth in less than a second, why couldn't he stop the missiles? Lois described earthquakes, meaning the missile still hit the ground, so why didn't the crack appear under her car again?
It was a weak plot element to use in any Superman movie. Doubly insulting that it was reused for the Donner cut, but that's another story.
- I guess another minor one was the treatment of Jeff East. The new high definition presentation does NOT help that prosthetic nose. And who cares if he didn't sound like Reeve? They still should have used his voice.
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Apr 24, 2009 16:19:32 GMT -5
They don't call Lex the Greatest Criminal Mind of Our Time for nothing.
EDIT: Have you heard East speak? He's like a bass when Reeve is a lower range baritone. Two totally different timbres. Yeah, his nose doesn't look right but they never expected Blu-ray to come out 30 years later.
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Post by Jimbo on Apr 24, 2009 16:30:45 GMT -5
Nope. Haven't seen his real nose either.
It's a minor squabble though. Kinda like Non's platform shoes in the Lester-shot scenes in Superman II. ;D
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Apr 24, 2009 16:44:36 GMT -5
He has a pointy little nose.
He's in Nicholas Meyer's Nuclear Holocaust movie, The Day After.
Weird, I had it on my PS3 last night. I just got to the part where the bombs go off. After that it get's pretty depressing.
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Post by adam15 on Apr 24, 2009 17:45:15 GMT -5
I guess the bit with Otis walking to Lex's Lair was a bit boring, coulda been tightened somewhat. Also, legoland needs to go. Funny thing is that both these problems could easily be fixed in some Ultimate edition of STM; blu ray anyone? Of course the time reversal is always contraversial; is DOES work dramatically but then again if you study it too much it starts to fall apart. I am glad though, since we never got Donner's finished SII that at least STM had such a finale like turning back time. It's like they knew that SII was never gonna be made (and in ways it never was  ) but they tried to give STM the biggest ending they could |
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Apr 24, 2009 17:48:13 GMT -5
Of course the time reversal is always contraversial; is DOES work dramatically but then again if you study it too much it starts to fall apart. Yeah, the same can be said about the BTTF trilogy. Once you start analyzing it, well, it's best not to do it. |
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Apr 24, 2009 19:39:52 GMT -5
Oh please. IF I did this to my gorgeous movie that is Superman 3 then my appreciation of Evil Superman would have gone out the window long ago. ;D
Same can be said for movies such as Commando and Robocop. They are just mindless fun. Except STM done it better.
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Apr 24, 2009 19:57:15 GMT -5
This should sum it up nicely.
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Post by Sverdlovski on Apr 24, 2009 20:41:53 GMT -5
Worse yet, Luthor says Superman mentioned in the interview that Krypton exploded in 1948... except he didn't, he only mentioned he was "over 21".
Also, that clashes with Jor-El's "many thousands of your years" line.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Apr 24, 2009 20:44:15 GMT -5
Stop it! Damnit!
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Post by Sverdlovski on Apr 24, 2009 20:47:34 GMT -5
I also hated Superman's brown hair in SIII.  |
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Post by fggafagas on Apr 24, 2009 21:28:41 GMT -5
Worse yet, Luthor says Superman mentioned in the interview that Krypton exploded in 1948... except he didn't, he only mentioned he was "over 21". Also, that clashes with Jor-El's "many thousands of your years" line. Jor-El also mentions Einstein's theory of relativity, which he couldn't know if he died thousands of years before Einstein was even born. |
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 24, 2009 22:14:35 GMT -5
Yeah, the going back in time/turning time back or whatever he did was BAD, but you know what? You don't think about it because Reeve sells it with his acting. The emotion of the scene is powerful, epic, crazy, romantic, magical, etc, that who cares.
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Post by Jimbo on Apr 25, 2009 1:07:21 GMT -5
I always thought that the "many thousands of your years" line was just a poetic hyperbole. Since Kal-El had left as a very young baby with no memory of anything, and didn't see his father until he was 18, it was as if Jor-El had been gone for thousands of years.
Probably wrong, but it's the only way I can reconcile that bizarre line.
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Post by Matt in the Hat on Apr 25, 2009 1:27:04 GMT -5
Years are different on krypton than earth. I've accepted this fictional fact many times over. But if you want to get into some specifics...
Revolutions of planets are determined by their orbits. A complete revolution around the sun for us is 365 days. For Mercury it's 89 days. A closer orbit, means more revolutions which means more years.
Also, "your" could mean kryptonian heritage and culture. A kryptonian year could have been measured in smaller points and times. We use the Roman calendar, but there have been other cultures that have used different ways of measuring months.
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 25, 2009 6:10:52 GMT -5
The word "your" is used inconsistently by Jor-El.
First he says "By now you will have reached your 18th year" (talking about Earth years).
Later he says "dead for many thousands of your years." And now it is supposed to mean Krypton years?
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 25, 2009 6:15:39 GMT -5
- I guess another minor one was the treatment of Jeff East. The new high definition presentation does NOT help that prosthetic nose. And who cares if he didn't sound like Reeve? They still should have used his voice. I often wish they had used Reeve instead of Jeff East period. When he was skinny, Reeve could have passed for a guy of 18, especially if he had that longish floppy hair that you see in documentaries. They should have shot all the Smallville scenes first, and then got Reeve to bulk up. That transformation, combined with Reeve's acting ability, would have been more than enough to convince us that 12 years had passed .... and then BAM! we get to Metropolis. |
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ShogunLogan
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Post by ShogunLogan on Apr 25, 2009 8:36:42 GMT -5
To nitpick, I always hated the lack of gravity of Superman's cape during the 'spider-man' scene. He is standing on the side of a building yet his cape is draped closely to his body. Should be hanging down.
Never caught that Einstein goof! Wow, what a shitty movie!
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Post by Sverdlovski on Apr 25, 2009 10:32:13 GMT -5
I always thought that the "many thousands of your years" line was just a poetic hyperbole. Since Kal-El had left as a very young baby with no memory of anything, and didn't see his father until he was 18, it was as if Jor-El had been gone for thousands of years. Probably wrong, but it's the only way I can reconcile that bizarre line. The bizarre line is not "may thousands of your years" but the Einstein thing. Krypton is supposed to be light-years away form Earth, so the "many thousands..." line actually fits. Actually, I have an explanation for the "Einstein" thing: although Krypton is far away form Earth, Jor-El is somehow able to get the data about how life is on Earth in "real time". That would be the only way Jor-El could have any information about our current civilization... if Krypton is light years away from Earth, and a trip from there to here takes many thousands of Earth years, all the data the Kryptonians would have from Earth would be outdated the moment they receive it, just like when we look at the stars we're actually seeing their lights from thousands or even millions of years ago. I also like the "many thousands..." line because it reinforces how Superman is unique in this universe. His planet vanished a long time ago and there's no remains of Krypton and its civilization except for him (and later, Zod and co.). It kinda gives us more perspective of the sacrifice his parents went through. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 25, 2009 11:05:23 GMT -5
"Because of specific level of radioactivity?" How would Lex have even known it was radioactive? He didn't even know it existed until he ripped it out of the book. yes, this is weak , but in 1978 the very idea of a " serious " superhero movie was radical. they did fudge a few things here and there, but compare it to a mid-70's comic book and see the campy expositional dialog of lex luthor and this bit will seem positively restrained. knowing that it came from where krypton was enough clue to indicate that it was made of stuff from krypton and therefore MIGHT be tough enough to injure superman . it was pushing the credulity , to be sure , but lex would be heck-bent to have any artifact from supermans home-world. as to krypton-fragments reaching earth , that makes sense if kal-el's ship went more or less directly there then fragments could have been blown out on the same path. since the planet blew outward , then there would be ( extremely rare ) kryptonite fregmants all over the systems surrounding krypton. timm-verse S:TAS did a great job indicating this by having fragments of kryptonite getting absorbed by the warp-drive/hyper-space effect of kal-el's ship as it headed to earth. the ending was rushed , but it could work : 1) objects would not fly off the earth as superman did not suddenly, abruptly stop the earths rotation , he slowed it - THEN reversed it. but it wasnt even a physical act of strength - it was a time-warp.....
2) superman was outside the earths atmosphere , so there was less air-friction to slow him down , whearas while chasing the missiles he was in the atmosphere and had wind-resistance.
3) after lois' death he was a LOT more motivated.
4) physically turning the earth backward wouldnt do anything except put unsustainable pressure on earth's faultlines and causing massive global earthquakes- but thats not what superman did . superman created a time-warp effect - a trick that actually is rooted in the comics ( for better or worse ) superman can - with extraordnary effort create a short time warp. he was time-traveling , not moving the planet itself.
5) the biggest - and most easily corrected - fault is that when superman restarts time , we dont see original-timeline superman flying sround as post-time-warp superman restarts time- ( ie : BTTF ) . this could be done by inserting some shots of supermans adventures inbetween shots of superman looking down as he flies forward .
note- he was breaking certain " cosmic laws " by time traveling and so he didnt go back and kill hitler or or save kennedy or anything ( which hypothetically he could ) he simply went back a few minutes to save his love-of-a-lifetime. this is his achillies heel ( which plays into SII ) and donner loved that romantic angle and played that up.
6) the time warp in SII is inexcusable- UNLESS the prolog to SII is a re-edited ending of STM that does not use it. again , either change the end to SII or change the end of STM. Worse yet, Luthor says Superman mentioned in the interview that Krypton exploded in 1948... except he didn't, he only mentioned he was "over 21". Also, that clashes with Jor-El's "many thousands of your years" line. Jor-El also mentions Einstein's theory of relativity, which he couldn't know if he died thousands of years before Einstein was even born. this is a gaffe , a result of multiple writers and an expansive plot . it reminds me of blade runner and the confusion over how many rogue replicants are loose. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 25, 2009 11:14:38 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, I know it's like the holy grail around here, but some things just really kill it for me. It's a darn good thing the rest of the movie is perfection, so the movie's not ruined. Anyway... - Lex deducing that meteorites from Superman's home planet are lethal to him. (deadly........to him) "Because of specific level of radioactivity?" How would Lex have even known it was radioactive? He didn't even know it existed until he ripped it out of the book. it IS the holy grail , and its good thing the rest of you is perfection else we'd banish you for blasphemy . the point about lex getting TOO MUCH info from so little clues is good. a better way would have been for lex to take interest in krypton-artifacts , and after some testing , deduce that it might be poisonous to superman . i dont know if editing could fix this ... maybe it could be subtley suggested if certain lines were deeted and we gave lex more time to " play " with the kryptonite- mayb a shot of lex in a lab from SIV then cut to him exposing it to superman ...dunno. |
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Melv
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Post by Melv on Apr 25, 2009 15:42:34 GMT -5
Who took the picture on the cover for Lois' interview?
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Apr 25, 2009 16:17:01 GMT -5
I personally thought it was a brilliant idea to get Reeve to dub East. and yeah, the nose, it never bothered me on TV all those years ago.
Jim C's nose stands out more in "Passion" IMO; I thought Freeborn did a great job with the makeup (as usual)
As well as what's been mentioned, Luthor getting to the 2nd missile so fast in such short notice also bothers me a bit.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 25, 2009 18:13:35 GMT -5
. Well said.... but I do agree with Jimbo that the Lex bits and more particularly the turning back of time helps put STM in the category of 'flawed classic'. It's a holy grail of superhero films, but admittedly a grail with a couple of cracks and holes in it.  |
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Post by ukdrummajor on Apr 26, 2009 0:59:09 GMT -5
it always bothers me how long it takes for lois` hat to fall to the ground during the helicopter rescue bit.
also, in the same scene when supes first changes in the revolving door it is a slimmer less bulked up Reeve, then seconds later when he catches her it is a more bulked up Reeve. I know that filming was done over a long period etc etc...but to have literally two completely different build supermen in the same scene is wrong for me.
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) but they tried to give STM the biggest ending they could
