Almost 2 years later...thoughts on the Donner Cut?

[Jimbo]

It's nearly been two years since the premiere of the Donner Cut. It polarized many.

Many loved finally being able to see the Donner footage and other RIC footage in widescreen for the first time.

Many loved the never-before-seen Daily Planet opening.

But of course, there were the drawbacks:

A weak ending.
Bad CGI.
Poor usage of the original STM and S2 scores.
Not so believable voice/body doubles.
Deleted scenes not inserted into the movie.

For me, it made me appreciate the original Lester cut all the more. While I didn't like the slapstick and the constant back-and-forth of Donner and Lester footage, it definitely had the heart. Donner Cut had the break-up scene at the Fortress, but Lester had the entire dinner date and frankly, a more romantic depowering scene. It had a cohesive beginning, middle, and end. It also had a great score. I still think the Paris opening was exciting and a great way to open the film.

[MAVERICK]

Watched it once.

Never again.

Not Lester's either.


Thanks Jimbo

[Jimbo]

Such a man of insight. ;D

Though if fan cuts were out of the picture, I bet you'd choose Lester's version, right?

[MAVERICK]

I'll never say.

[eccentricbeing]

I've never seen a movie attract so many fancutters before. I would think it rivaled Star Wars....and sadly, I've yet to see ONE fan cut on my own. Sorry, guys.

[Legsy]

I have a copy of the best Donner cut ever!

[Metallo]

The best "extra" feature in the Supperman II "3" disk set within the box set. I think that sums up my feelings.

[Jimbo]

I hear ya.

The Blade Runner workprint is technically a bonus feature, but it's still a complete cohesive film. I just don't have that feeling with the Donner Cut.

[MAVERICK]

Jul 23, 2008 14:47:50 GMT -5 Legsy said:

I have a copy of the best Donner cut ever!

Thanks Legsy
You my buddy ;D

[Legsy]

You are most welcome, friend.

[eccentricbeing]

Donner Cut is more like the 45 minutes of deleted and alternate scenes in the Blade Runner set. It presents an alternative version of the film with holes here and there.

[Metallo]

Jimbo gets it. As cool as the Donner cut is...it isn't complete. Its a rough cut. A really good one but it has no polish and is simply a rough idea of what might have been.

[Jimbo]

It all would have played much better if they hadn't cut out so much Lester footage. Their mantra was "all of Donner footage with as little Lester footage as possible to fill the gaps". That was just the wrong philosophy if you want to tell a good story.

All the sequences in Niagara were gutted. Most of the first Fortress trip is truncated. Trimming down East Houston is understandable since Donner hated that scene, but the stuff in the bar was fun, such as Zod throwing the guy out.

Some things did play out better in the Donner Cut, though. I much prefer the Fortress confrontation over the silly action of the Lester Cut. The repowering also has a lot more resonance, but I also love the score of the Lester's "it's better left to your imagination" repowering scene. That Thorne, he rocks.

[Valentine Smith]

What Metallo said. The best disc of extras EVER!

However, that being said...I can't watch the Lester cut either.

Oh, and I've seen NO fan edits, so solicit away.

[Jimbo]

Superman II: The No Orange Juice Cut. ;D

[Legsy]

;D

[MerM]

I think it did what it needed to do - getting the Donner footage into the open. However, somewhere along the line it tried be something more, and that's where it fell flat.

[Deleted]

I thought it was the same damn movie I already had!

[EvilSupes]

I thought it was a sloppy cut. It could and should have been better. But the constant playing of the same musical cues and dodgy CGI really ruined it, for me anyway. That's why I like to watch other people's fancuts that combine Lester and Donner.

[Deleted]

I think they mistook our love for Donner's work and his approach to the series as love for Donner himself. Having a new version of S2 wasn't necessarily about bringing a by-the-script version of Donner's 1977 vision of the sequel to the screen. I think it's fair to say that we didn't necessarily want to see S2 exactly as it was scripted in '77, before "Turning Back the World" was added to STM. We wanted to see what could or would have been made in 1979, had Donner not been fired. On that level, the Donner Cut is a failure. It compromised story and overall quality of construction in order to stick as closely as possible to the original outline. Donner himself certainly wouldn't have created Thau's Donner Cut in 1979, considering the ending had already been rewritten and adapted for the first movie. I just can't believe he would've left the original ending of S2 as-is. So, what we have is a curiosity, a frankenstein film representing an early draft of a script that probably would have been changed before going into production.

I appreciate some of the work they put into it. The Metropolis battle in particular is much better than Lester's IMO. The overall approach was just the wrong one to take, though.

[Metallo]

What I pray for is for Wb to take a cue from the fancuts and do a definitive cut that uses the best of Donner and Lester. Its so obvious they should have released that THIS year for the 70th anniversary. I don't think WB has said anything about marking that occasion at all actually!

Donner deserved to have "his" cut the way he wanted but now is time to give fans the best that they deserve.

[Jimbo]

Speaking of that, what's the deal with Selutron?

He recently posted another clip on YouTube, and effectively packed up his camp and left. He said it was his last clip, and he'll be going.

I knew his Superman II cut was just a red herring. I bet all he ever did was make those clips.

WB could make another Superman II cut, but it would have to be a sound business decision, since after all, this is an industry out for profit, like all others. Is there a market for it outside members of a few message boards?

[crazy_asian_man]

First- I usually attend Wondercon and Comicon, arguably two of the hugest comic conventions out here on the west coast- and in talking to people, you may be suprised how many people are giant comic bok fans/Superman the movie fans that would easily buy the IRC but have no knowledge or never go on Superman movie message boards--- so I don't think it's ONLY message board fans interested in the film...

About the RDC..... it should have been called the RDIW- the Richard Donner Incomplete Workprint.... or, as it's been suggested, '45 minutes of deleted Donner scenes'. Calling it the RDC just gave it too much power when the resources weren't there--- before Thau even made what was there worse!

((*I don't have as much issue with the Lester stuff taken out (because it can be put in now easily w/software) as I do with Thau's bad decisions editorially down the line- even to trimming (unnecessarily) bits that were already fine that Baird cut!
((Some more obvious than others))))

I agree with what Jimbo's comments as to what were the crimes of the piece- but at the same time, I don't feel that I appreciate Lester more- I just appreciate Thau less (jor-el floating head, anyone?) for making the RDC looking like an inferior product.... AND not enough money for generating more/better fx when needed.

I watch both the RDC and Lester cuts... as reference material. I would just love it if there was another better cut of the RDC, polished, and with the errors mentioned fixed. Will it happen, though?

There's supposed to be another cut of Dark City that's coming out--- and I can't see any real market for a movie that's that obscure....(though I'll pick it up)....so, if a studio is willing to put money into THAT.... here's hoping they'll do it for the RDC!

[ye5man]

As a film, I think its awful. The pacing is completly off and we don't get to see Supes really for the first hour (only for saving the Niagara kid).

As a supplement to Lester's 2, its heart-breaking and excellent at the same time.

[matt]

I've only watched it a few times for the Donner scenes. I don't care for it as a movie.