ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 11, 2008 12:19:23 GMT -5
Aye, if the Thau cut was good then there'll be none of this.
The fact there are discussions of further cuts so soon after Thau's release indicates to me the failure of it.
Surely you all must realise as a standalone movie, without any Donner/Lester bias, the Thau cut is pretty bad. Editing and music editing mostly; the film is jarring and choppy.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 11, 2008 13:20:04 GMT -5
The first time watching the RDC, I had suspicions I would make my own cut when the Thorne music cues were gone from the moon attack--- and then was already certain I was going to make my own cut as soon as Jor-el's head starting bouncing around Gene Hackman in full color. Ough.
Was that too fast to deem the Thau cut a failure? ;p
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HOSNI
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Post by HOSNI on Aug 13, 2008 0:52:09 GMT -5
So I was reading the SII 1977 script, it makes you actually appreciate how much the DC did capture, also highlights the scenes supposedly never filmed. Have also been playing around in Photoshop lately, still a novice. I decided to play around with a still from a scene which I don’t think was ever shot. Depending on how it’s received I may try some more. Lame? Yes – but I get a kick out of this stuff.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 13, 2008 1:11:34 GMT -5
Loved it! More, please!  Aside; I'm always suprised how few people actually take the time out to read the Mankiewicz script... though it's a pity there's never any hint of what the alternate ending would have been to turning back time.... (Which reinforces the idea they never had time to come up with an alternate ending...)  |
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Aug 13, 2008 7:52:42 GMT -5
Yeah, what is the big secret?! I don't understand how there's missing pages from the script concerning the ending. If it wasn't going to be used what exactly is the point in hiding it? I have a feeling the ending was a lot more than what we got in the donner cut, and since the passing of Reeve and the ageing of Kidder, they couldn't do the intended ending, thus settling for the turn back time sequence. Shame really.
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Post by Ollie W on Aug 13, 2008 22:15:02 GMT -5
Truthfully- if Thau had just cut the RDC SMOOTHLY, even with just footage available, without the bizzare trimming of Donner sequences we've even already seen in a longer form (a la IRC) awful voice doubles and often extemely awkward disjointed music editing think I would have been happy enough, even without the 'enhancements' made available nowadays to 'create' "new" footage. I really enjoy most of what Selutron's done... but I question how comfortable Donner & Company feel about the technology to really alter another director's footage, period, to this degree, even if (justifiably to a degree, I think) Donner still despises Lester. They did do rotoscoping for the closeups of Supes' crashing into the Statue of Liberty scene, but how many more 'new' scenes would they feel comfortable 'creating' through cut and paste. Personally, I don't mind one bit if it helps sharpen the original vision of what Donner was going to do... but I haven't been in the professional world of filmmaking for decades like Donner has. (or at all). It's highly possilble that Donner is just happy with the original Thau cut.... we just don't know what his reaction is to the Thau cut now that time has passed--- and we don't know what his reaction is/would be to more 'composite cuts'. Hopefully and ideally, there will be a better extended cut than what showed up the first time around.....WHOEVER does it. Good post crazy. The Donner Cut didn't need a lot more work and I think at times Selutron overdoes things. At the end of the day better editing and music cues would've been enough. Having said that his work does speak for itself and most of the time it’s to the benefit of good storytelling. Watch his Post Time Travel (full version) video (downloadable at CapedWonder). I had another look at it yesterday and it really is exceptional. The effects for the release of the villains are far superior to the official release and mesh in much better with the 80’s effects. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 15, 2008 23:23:55 GMT -5
ok , crunch time , command decision... i will TAKE the " donner cut " ( even though it is only a facsimilie ) over the theatrical cut. seriously, the editing is rough and there are gaffs but screen tests over ice cream in the face ? more or LESS east huston? yeah. i'll take the donner cut. ( but i will turn it off just before his time warp.  ) |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 16, 2008 0:46:54 GMT -5
Even though the Donner cut was a breath of fresh air for cutting out Lester's more ridiculous moments during key scenes (Metropolis battle) its still very jarringly put together as Ye5man said. Music cues that don't fit with the footage as well as LOOPING music in some cases, the abrupt cuts, the obvious digital shots...all this makes it feel incomplete for me. I haven't really had a desire to watch it in a while.
Its was good to see all that footage though but even they put the disclaimer at the beginning on there for a reason.
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Post by adam15 on Aug 20, 2008 19:24:07 GMT -5
I liked the Donner cut, but I agree that it's not a finished film. The good news is that I (and probably a lot of people here) can't purely enjoy Superman II anyway because we are so well versed in it's problems. So it doesn't really matter that the Donner cut is a mess, it's a worse film objectively sure, but better in the hearts of the fans because it is truer to Donner's intention.
If you want the best cut of Superman II without all the creative editing and photoshopping, you would just do the RIC minus gags plus Brandos footage and final confrontation and the Donner battle bits. Thats the cut I think everyone can live with. Of course Donner's D.P. opening is GOLD, and it is such a shame that the payoff scene was never completed. My own favorite cut of SII involves using the DP jump and then pay it off with the Pink Bear scene. It kinda works since after Lois's stunt, Clark has time to agonize over keeping his secret and finally by Niagra Falls can't resist and spontaneously reveals himself. The catalyst for this could be SUperman saving the boy at Niagra, being so close to Lois as Superman was too hard for him and he had to fly away ASAP leaving Lois sad again that she will always be apart from Superman
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Aug 21, 2008 8:43:15 GMT -5
Yeah that sounds pretty good.
My only complaint about Richard Lester's cut is the picture, it looks so dull and dark compared to Donner's. I prefer the flow of Lester's but the picture (especially at the beginning on krypton) is pretty horrendous - colour wise - it's more like blue than white. I like Ken Thorne's theme as well from Lester's cut but for the credits it really needs the John Williams theme flying words from the Donner cut.
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atp
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Post by atp on Aug 12, 2021 2:06:19 GMT -5
15 years later and we still don't have a CGI villains rule the world scene
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Aug 12, 2021 14:48:37 GMT -5
15 years later and we still don't have a CGI villains rule the world scene he he According to O' Halloran , Donner filmed some part of the super breath sequence: “Donner filmed us blowing all those cars down the street, and destroying the Daily Planet [building] and all that stuff. When Lester came aboard, he had to re-shoot things because a director had to have shot at least 50 percent of a movie to get his name on the film.” O’Halloran says that many of Superman II’s more overtly comic moments represent Lester’s main contribution to the production after Donner departed. “He put too much comedy in the movie — the Donner cut is much better in my eyes.”sportsgrindentertainment.com/non-speaks-supermans-silent-villain-remembers-on-set-fight-with-christopher-reeve-the-ending-you-never-saw-and-brandos-shenanigans/So either Ol' Jack is suffering from a bit of memory confusion.........or there really is some juicy footage helmed by Donner that Thau could not retrieve . |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 12, 2021 14:54:40 GMT -5
15 years later and we still don't have a CGI villains rule the world scene he he According to O' Halloran , Donner filmed some part of the super breath sequence: “Donner filmed us blowing all those cars down the street, and destroying the Daily Planet [building] and all that stuff. When Lester came aboard, he had to re-shoot things because a director had to have shot at least 50 percent of a movie to get his name on the film.” O’Halloran says that many of Superman II’s more overtly comic moments represent Lester’s main contribution to the production after Donner departed. “He put too much comedy in the movie — the Donner cut is much better in my eyes.”sportsgrindentertainment.com/non-speaks-supermans-silent-villain-remembers-on-set-fight-with-christopher-reeve-the-ending-you-never-saw-and-brandos-shenanigans/So either Ol' Jack is suffering from a bit of memory confusion.........or there really is some juicy footage helmed by Donner that Thau could not retrieve . Easily memory confusion, imo. The look of Ursa is greatly different in the 'blowing' scenes & from the timelines out there- the Daily Planet stuff was built when Donner was there, but not the city set where all the Lester craziness happened. |
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