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Post by adam15 on May 18, 2009 15:28:20 GMT -5
I think we all know that the fox-hunt wasn't gonna be used.
The way I see it, missing from the script was a 'Superman moment' with Superman ripping his shirt and saving the day or whatever, something unrelated to the plot but a nice mini-action opener before the Daily Planet scene.
So my belief is that Donner would have shot a mini-action sequence that would have had no bearing on the plot but allowed for some Superman action. This scene coulda been like a 'day in the life of Superman' sequence.
On a related note, what would Donner have had in mind if he had been able to bring back Hackman and Brando and make Superman II "bigger"?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 18, 2009 18:47:43 GMT -5
It's not impossible, but it's definitely a rather bland opening, even though I know the idea was to go against what was predictable, according to Mank in the S2 commentary- and open with an emotional explosion (the Lois dp jump- though, as I always say--- with the storyboards/etc., too--- not enough footage shot for that to be as spectacular as it should have been- Donner had two other 'people jumping from tall building' sequences- in "Lethal Weapon #1" and "Inside Moves"--- by having a real stunt person jumping out of a building, and those shots would have added WAYYY more 'oomph' than the weak bluescreen that Thau had for that sequence (I'm sure it was budget limits).
Well, it's not impossible- but my guess is that they wanted (with the fox-hunt & such) the 'calm before the storm', showing a 'day in the life of Superman' and the world as being fairly quiet at that point before the villains' arrival and save the giant action (and budget) for the Metropolis battle.
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Post by adam15 on May 18, 2009 19:00:12 GMT -5
Yeah but there wouldn't have been a scene where you SEE Clark transform into Superman. You were gonna see the transformation during the DP jump, but they changed it so Clark stays in his suit.
So they couldn't just open the film with Superman in costume, they would have had to include a shirt rip or something!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 18, 2009 19:19:28 GMT -5
I think they were going much more for the way the Lord of the Rings trilogy went- they didn't have a recap, they just went forward (for the most part)- and if you missed the first part, too bad.
Tossing the rocket into space and seeing the explosion I think is what was supposed to give the 'oomph' for SII. Because we're so used to seeing the theatrical version with the shirt-rip and the money put there instead of the Metro battle, it feels lacking.
Personally, I would have rather had a spectacular Metro battle if that meant ditching an exciting opening with Supes. For subsequent sequels, though, I think Donner would have done things more with that type of formula (mini-action in the beginning, then big action at the end).... reason mostly because of how Donner and Mank talked about deliberately making the choice for the DP jump- (which, again, would have been more eye-opening if Donner had the chance to shoot the stunt double doing the actual jump, like his other films with the same idea.)
All speculation, but listen to the commentary on S2 again during the DP jump. They seem pretty firm in defending that as an opener this time around versus a Superman action bit.
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HOSNI
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Post by HOSNI on May 18, 2009 22:16:53 GMT -5
Here you go, straight from the 77' script. I honestly think this would have been done, it allows us to see Supes first up and has that classic STM wit. The DP jump scene follows this in the script - which is written on here word for word as it plays out in the Donner cut. Copies available over at supermancinema.co.uk  |
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Post by Matt in the Hat on May 18, 2009 23:11:28 GMT -5
I say recap, then segue way into Daily Planet and jump. Perhaps Superman arriving and changing back to Clark, seeing as Clark was late to work.
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HOSNI
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Post by HOSNI on May 19, 2009 0:59:46 GMT -5
I should add with the 77' script there is indeed an STM recap preceding this scene - similar to what was seen in the Donner Cut. Then the DP scenes (with jump etc) immediately followed this proposed taxi scene.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 20, 2009 3:14:33 GMT -5
Read that... I was suprised that there wasn't more of an attempt to duplicate the comic book opening for the sequel. I actually thought the Lester recap during credits was smoother conceptwise than the format used for the recap in the RDC. (Heresy, I know...)
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Post by adam15 on May 20, 2009 15:14:15 GMT -5
Yeah the Lester re-cap is better.. even though is isn't giving the audience any new information (which the Donner cut re-cap does.)
I guess it's a testiment to the superior editing in the Lester cut... no one minds that the re-cap which gives no new info takes 7 minutes while everyone gets bored with the 11 minute Donner re-cap with credits even though this sequence gives us crucial info on what happened to the villians!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 26, 2009 10:29:35 GMT -5
As you mentioned, the choppy editing and $2 fx of the phantom zone escape sequence probably is what makes that sequence feel like it drags forever- with the LC choice, at least you get to see the quality of the rest of STM's flashbacks, while waiting for the movie to begin--- whereas looking at those terrible space backgrounds is painful, even for a few seconds and stick in the head, while also having to look at new credits that don't quite resemble the STM credits. (I hate the excuse that Thau makes about 'trying to make fx look like they were made in the 80's.... when the fx look more like they were done in the stone ages. The lack of seeming effort on the part of the fx team is painful...)
Also, the LC credits are almost like a trailer- ramping up excitement- but in the RDC, while the attempt is to (seemingly) duplicate what might have been done in 1980 under Donner- at the very least, the credits could/should have looked closer to the STM credits, rather than looking like a cheap knockoff. ;p
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