Which SII scenes do you prefer?

[adam15]

I think I'm inclined to vote for D.P. jump with Pink Bear reveal. What do you all think?

[Kal-Ex]

I like the Daily Planet jump with the screen test… but I would like to add the footage when Loìs and Clark talk after he reveal is identity in the Pink bear scene.

[EnriqueH]

I like the quality of the Daily Planet jump, but I think it's more realistic for a person to throw themselves into water than onto concrete. I also think it's more natural to trip and fall than to be fooled by a blank gun. Surely Superman can see if there's a bullet shooting out of the gun since he was fast enough to catch one during the mugging.

So I vote for the Lester version, even though the quality and elegance of the Donner shots are obvious.

[adam15]

Jun 9, 2009 11:53:53 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

I like the quality of the Daily Planet jump, but I think it's more realistic for a person to throw themselves into water than onto concrete. I also think it's more natural to trip and fall than to be fooled by a blank gun. Surely Superman can see if there's a bullet shooting out of the gun since he was fast enough to catch one during the mugging.

So I vote for the Lester version, even though the quality and elegance of the Donner shots are obvious.

I disagree. Lois said she was betting HER LIFE that Clark was Superman. Her actions are cognitively dissonant from her words when she simply jumps in the river.

[EnriqueH]

I don't know a single solitary sane person that would LITERALLY bet her life by jumping off a building and onto concrete to prove a point.

Do you?

[adam15]

Jun 9, 2009 12:09:31 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

I don't know a single solitary sane person that would LITERALLY bet her life by jumping off a building and onto concrete to prove a point.

Do you?

You don't understand; Lois was 100% sure Clark was Superman, so she knew her life was never in any real danger.

[EnriqueH]

I do understand. I also understand she felt like an idiot afterwards when she realized it "wasn't true".

[Jimbo]

River jump and pink bear for the simple reason that they are completed scenes. Tracked music, screen tests and body doubles, no thanks.

[superman]

I prefer both Donner scenes, but since the 'blank bullets' is a screentest, I went for the more 'polished' pink bear scene.

In the Daily Planet jump scene, there are only two things that bug me, and that is the fake heat vision, and the Reeve stand in.

...one more thing, I wish the music was newly composed!

[Kal-Ex]

Jun 9, 2009 11:53:53 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

Surely Superman can see if there's a bullet shooting out of the gun since he was fast enough to catch one during the mugging.

I’m agree with you, Superman can see if it’s a blank or not. But the pink bear scene it’s not more realistic. Superman is not supposed to fall on the floor like that… and even if he fall, he can catch his glasses before they fall in the fire (at superspeed, Loïs will see nothing). I was 7 years old when I saw that scene and I remember asking to my father: "why does superman fall on the floor like that???"

[The Phantom Menace]

Jun 9, 2009 13:21:32 GMT -5 Kal-Ex said:

I was 7 years old when I saw that scene and I remember asking to my father: "why does superman fall on the floor like that???"

Clark: I don't know why I did that.
Lois: Maybe you wanted to.
Clark: I don't think I did.
Lois: Maybe you didn't want to in your mind, but maybe you wanted to in your heart.

I like the idea of Clark revealing himself due to a subconscious desire more than Clark being tricked into revealing himself by Lois.

[Kal-Ex]

Jun 9, 2009 14:16:49 GMT -5 The Phantom Menace said:

Jun 9, 2009 13:21:32 GMT -5 Kal-Ex said:

I was 7 years old when I saw that scene and I remember asking to my father: "why does superman fall on the floor like that???"

Clark: I don't know why I did that.
Lois: Maybe you wanted to.
Clark: I don't think I did.
Lois: Maybe you didn't want to in your mind, but maybe you wanted to in your heart.

I like the idea of Clark revealing himself due to a subconscious desire more than Clark being tricked into revealing himself by Lois.

OK, if I misunderstood that scene it’s because the translation in french was wrong.

Here’s the dialogue in french:

Clark: I don’t understand…
Loïs: You cannot hide it anymore
Clark: You think I tried?
Lois: Maybe you didn't want to in your mind, but maybe you wanted to in your heart.

It’s a little bit confusing in french… but the real dialogue in english make sense
It’s bad that they change the meaning in french

[Jimbo]

Ouch, lame translation there.

[The Phantom Menace]

Wow. Had that been the original English dialogue, I'd have the scene as well.

[adam15]

Jun 9, 2009 12:20:07 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

I do understand. I also understand she felt like an idiot afterwards when she realized it "wasn't true".

That is correct Lois felt like an idiot because Clark tricked her.

It doesn't change the fact, however, that Lois was 100% sure that Clark was Superman. So she knew she wasn't in any danger but her move would have forced Clark to reveal his identity or she surely would die.

By only jumping in the river, it's a little to easy for Clark to keep his identity as he had plenty of time to react and Lois wasn't gonna die right away. With the DP jump, Clark had to make split second decision or Lois would die.

[adam15]

Interesting, the data sample is small so far but only a plurality prefers the Lesters River Jump and the Pink Bear. While those who prefer the DP jump constitute a majority they are equally divided on whether to use the screentest or pink bear to complement the scene.

It is clear from the data that if the blank bullets scene existed, then it, coupled with the DP jump would consolidate the clear majority while also picking off some additional votes from the River Jump/Pink Bear vote; folks who only prefer those scenes since the Blank bullets scene wasn't shot to begin with.

So basically, I would conclude that a major reason why the Lester cut is prefered to the Donner cut is that that latter lacks the proper inclusion of the blank bullets scene

[crazy_asian_man]

I prefer both Donner scenes, but since the 'blank bullets' is a screentest, I went for the more 'polished' pink bear scene.

In the Daily Planet jump scene, there are only two things that bug me, and that is the fake heat vision, and the Reeve stand in.

...one more thing, I wish the music was newly composed!

I have to admit, even with adding more music to the screentest- there's just too much unfinished about it- to really enjoy it as part of the movie- and not just the changing hair and glasses, but the tone doesn't even really match the niagara falls' scene directed by Lester. As written in the Mank script, Lois is peppy, a bit loopy, and actually easy-going with the whole assignment- but overall pleasant, even if a bit goofy- whereas in Lester's version, Lois is overall rather narcisstic and demanding.

DP jump was a must (although with editing and scoring a must, too) + pink bear..... because it's just a finished scene and matches more than the screen test as part of the movie. Sadly, I think it also means I've come to terms that there really can be no perfect- or even close- Donner cut that makes any sort of film sense. ;(

[SuperSnooper]

Is there anyway of ending the DP scene, BEFORE she makes the jump?

As Clark walks away from her in a huff, Lois could be looking at the newspaper, using an overshoulder shot of Lois and the newspaper (maybe using a body double) and dubbing a typical Lois "Hmmmm......" so that she doesn't jump, but has sparked the suspicion and she still has the guts to jump in Niagara Falls.

I just wish there was a way to incorporate the alley way change without having a Paris scene with Lois......

[ye5man]

As close to the theatrical as possible for me.

[Jimbo]

Does anyone even like the Donner Cut more than the original Superman II anymore?

[Kal-Ex]

Jun 10, 2009 10:01:22 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

Does anyone even like the Donner Cut more than the original Superman II anymore?

I prefer the Donner cut. Even if it’s not perfect.

[crazy_asian_man]

Does anyone even like the Donner Cut more than the original Superman II anymore?

I prefer the Donner cut. Even if it’s not perfect.

Same here. Though I prefer to call it the Thau hack and slash job.

[ye5man]

I'm never watching the Donner cut again. It was too much anti-Lester for me; a lot of omissions were too distracting. I'm sticking to the theatrical from now on.

Its been bloody years since I've watched S2 all the way through properly. I watched the Donner cut when it came out 2 1/2 years ago, before that it must have been 4-5 years.

SIII even longer, lol. I can't get past the chemical fire; just foward to the evil Superman bits.

[Jimbo]

I think the Donner Cut is an insult to cinema. It's sad that such an incoherent incomplete movie can be passed off as a finished product. There was not enough footage to complete Donner's vision, so they should not have bothered. Warner Bros. could have put money into completing the film as intended with some digital trickery (along the lines of Selutron's efforts), but instead they went the cheap route. It's sad when visual effects are better in a 1978 movie than a 2006 movie.

[Kal-Ex]

Jun 10, 2009 10:21:38 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

I think the Donner Cut is an insult to cinema. It's sad that such an incoherent incomplete movie can be passed off as a finished product. There was not enough footage to complete Donner's vision, so they should not have bothered. Warner Bros. could have put money into completing the film as intended with some digital trickery (along the lines of Selutron's efforts), but instead they went the cheap route. It's sad when visual effects are better in a 1978 movie than a 2006 movie.

I’m agree with you, the movie is incomplete and Selutron did an amazing job trying to correct that. But if I prefer the Donner cut it’s not for the special effects or the music or anything like that. It’s because it’s the sequel of STM, it’s the same tone (not for kids)… I like all the stuff with Jor-el, the depowering and repowering scenes.

You say it’s an insult to cinema and you’re probably right. This movie is for fans only… and I’m a fan