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Post by adam15 on Jun 10, 2009 10:42:38 GMT -5
I think the Donner Cut is an insult to cinema. It's sad that such an incoherent incomplete movie can be passed off as a finished product. There was not enough footage to complete Donner's vision, so they should not have bothered. Warner Bros. could have put money into completing the film as intended with some digital trickery (along the lines of Selutron's efforts), but instead they went the cheap route. It's sad when visual effects are better in a 1978 movie than a 2006 movie. An insult to cinema? I dunno, I think just letting the Lester scenes breathe a little bit, leaving Thornes score, and adding a few of Donners deleted scenes would have done wonders for the film. |
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 10:46:41 GMT -5
An insult to cinema? I dunno, I think just letting the Lester scenes breathe a little bit, leaving Thornes score, and adding a few of Donners deleted scenes would have done wonders for the film. Yes, an insult to cinema. Everything you listed is what DIDN'T happen, but SHOULD HAVE happened, and it sucks. What you stated is the ideal outcome that just didn't happen due to stubborn pride and bitterness. Start with Lester's Cut and add in the deleted Donner scenes found in the RIC and replace Lara with Jor-El, and voila, better movie. Even then, the Brando scenes need work. That damn music.  |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 10, 2009 11:19:30 GMT -5
Does anyone even like the Donner Cut more than the original Superman II anymore?  I loved the Donner cut actually. But it's more of a curiosity since it's incomplete. For me, nothing will ever top the ABC extended cut however. That epic feel I got from the extended cut is something won't ever be topped. If I had made my own fan cut, I'd simply just add Brando to my SII extended and it could be one movie I could be stuck on an island with. |
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EvilSupes
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LOOK! Superman's drunk!
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Post by EvilSupes on Jun 10, 2009 11:24:11 GMT -5
None, if I'm totally honest. They all suck.  |
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 11:25:21 GMT -5
For me, nothing will ever top the ABC extended cut however. That epic feel I got from the extended cut is something won't ever be topped. If I had made my own fan cut, I'd simply just add Brando to my SII extended and it could be one movie I could be stuck on an island with. Yup, I'm with you there. I grew up on the ABC cut. It WAS Superman II to me until I found out about all this Lester/Donner stuff when the DVD came out. The RIC was too extreme. The added bits with the Asian and redneck families is just embarrassing. I loved all the added Donner scenes, like the prison escape, Luthor going to/from the Fortress, Arctic Police/destroying the Fortress. It's a shame that not all of Donner's shot and unused material wasn't made available to us on DVD and in widescreen. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 10, 2009 12:03:43 GMT -5
Asian and redneck families? I don't remember that.
Oh, wait, are you talking about at the Niagra Falls? If so, that wasn't on my ABC cut. B
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Post by adam15 on Jun 10, 2009 12:08:40 GMT -5
An insult to cinema? I dunno, I think just letting the Lester scenes breathe a little bit, leaving Thornes score, and adding a few of Donners deleted scenes would have done wonders for the film. Yes, an insult to cinema. Everything you listed is what DIDN'T happen, but SHOULD HAVE happened, and it sucks. What you stated is the ideal outcome that just didn't happen due to stubborn pride and bitterness. Start with Lester's Cut and add in the deleted Donner scenes found in the RIC and replace Lara with Jor-El, and voila, better movie. Even then, the Brando scenes need work. That damn music. Well, I just think that to use the word insult is a bit extreme. Perhapes it was more of a disappointment. I more or less agree with ya about just adding Brando and the RIC Donner stuff into SII to make it a better movie. Let's not forget though that Donner's final contfrontation scene in the fortress and his Metropolis battle bits are also stuff that needs to be in there. So the big question becomes, what to do with the DP jump scene? To me, it makes Superman II more of a direct sequel to STM which is why I like it. EDIT: Well no matter... even though the Donner cut was a disappoinment I still think it's presence kinda makes SII threatrical obselete. I mean, why even watch it when Brando's scenes are out there? |
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 12:09:34 GMT -5
Asian and redneck families? I don't remember that. Oh, wait, are you talking about at the Niagra Falls? If so, that wasn't on my ABC cut. B Those scenes are in the RIC. Some redneck woman complaining to her husband that her show was pre-empted by news footage (Zod blowing up East Houston). Then I think we see a very stereotypical Japanese home where the dad comes in to see his daughter watching Zod blowing stuff up on TV. Then the dad quips "Too much violence on TV!" Yeah....Lester at his finest. Was the equally lame "No one is going to get in here!" *body flies through wall* scene at the White House in the ABC cut too? Ugh, embarrassing. |
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 12:13:29 GMT -5
So the big question becomes, what to do with the DP jump scene? To me, it makes Superman II more of a direct sequel to STM which is why I like it. I would prefer to scrap that whole scene, and just go with the Paris opener and have the Niagara jump and pink bear. The DP jump scene is fine by itself, but there is no completed footage that flows from it (no, the screen test does not count), so it has to be scrapped. Donner never shot the Niagara scenes, so Donner's earlier scenes all have to go. |
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ye5man
New Member
1%
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Post by ye5man on Jun 10, 2009 12:16:57 GMT -5
I can't really watch any of the TV versions either cos the presentation is too low quality
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Post by SuperSnooper on Jun 10, 2009 12:17:45 GMT -5
Thau couldn't even edit STM footage together professionally. His recap of STM's events are sloppy, I'd much rather have the theatrical S2's opening credits and recap, even if it doesn't tie in with the XK101 rocket blamming the phantom zone.
The Donner cut credits looked like something put together on the Amiga500!!
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Post by adam15 on Jun 10, 2009 12:20:24 GMT -5
So the big question becomes, what to do with the DP jump scene? To me, it makes Superman II more of a direct sequel to STM which is why I like it. I would prefer to scrap that whole scene, and just go with the Paris opener and have the Niagara jump and pink bear. The DP jump scene is fine by itself, but there is no completed footage that flows from it (no, the screen test does not count), so it has to be scrapped. Donner never shot the Niagara scenes, so Donner's earlier scenes all have to go. Can't say that's unreasonable. But I like to think that the change of tone after the DP jump scene (i.e. Lois suddenly becomes a bitter b*tch rather than a fiesty ballzy gal and Clark becomes more sweet as opposed to shy and ackward) is because Lois was ashamed after her plunge and such a daring act caused Clark to kinda come out of his sheck and realize that he did want to tell her. |
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 12:27:13 GMT -5
The Donner cut credits looked like something put together on the Amiga500!! Do you expect better from a graphical designer of featurettes for the DVDs of Timeline and Caddyshack? With a crew like that, it's no wonder why the Donner Cut seems like nothing more than a glorified DVD special feature. |
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 10, 2009 12:38:43 GMT -5
River jump and pink bear for the simple reason that they are completed scenes. Tracked music, screen tests and body doubles, no thanks. Agreed, and I love the river jump; Chris was great in it. 
"I like the idea of Clark revealing himself due to a subconscious desire more than Clark being tricked into revealing himself by Lois."Me too. Oh, and I don't think I've ever said it in this forum, or at least I don't remember, but the Donner cut sucked. Sure, I like some parts in it, but there are others that I hate. |
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Post by adam15 on Jun 10, 2009 13:17:48 GMT -5
The Donner cut does have a higher rating on rottentomatos. There has to be a reason for that.
Will we not all concede that the Donner cut is a superior film to the Lester Cut in concept and its short comings primarily are attributed to the fact that it is unfinished?
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 13:18:53 GMT -5
It also has an 8.0 rating on IMDb. Numbers don't mean jack.
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Post by adam15 on Jun 10, 2009 13:21:52 GMT -5
Well, many critics did attest that the Donner Cut was superior to the Lester cut... some did not but I believe most did...
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 13:30:14 GMT -5
That was 2006 though. I don't think the Donner Cut will stand the test of time.
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The Phantom Menace
New Member
Eyes to the stage, pilgrim, she's just warming up.
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Jun 10, 2009 13:34:37 GMT -5
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 13:35:46 GMT -5
;D
FACT CHECK FTW!
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 10, 2009 13:51:12 GMT -5
Besides, that pool sample is too small, only like 39 reviews for Superman II, and 6 reviews for TDC... bwahahaha! ;D And I don't think that those reviews are that much in depth, IMO. It seems to me that most of the critics were wearing rose-colored glasses when they wrote their reviews.  I mean, we all know that Supes II is very flawed. Fun, yes, but very flawed. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 10, 2009 13:54:18 GMT -5
Not as flawed as SR though...
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 10, 2009 13:57:41 GMT -5
Not as flawed as SR though... Despite the Newmans' best efforts. ;D |
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 10, 2009 14:16:09 GMT -5
Not as flawed as SR though... That's very debatable, but I really don't feel like debating it .... it's been done to death.  Not just here, but everywhere, and I'm tired of it. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 10, 2009 14:23:29 GMT -5
SII, despite its flaws, has more originality than anything in SR---which has too many references to STM. In a way, it's not unlike a better budgeted, better acted version of SIV minus Nuclear Man and an 80s sidekick.
The performances in SII are better, the action scenes (cellophane and all) are more plentiful. In short, it's exciting, fun, adventurous and better acted. Everything that SR aspired to be.
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I mean, we all know that Supes II is very flawed. Fun, yes, but very flawed.
Not just here, but everywhere, and I'm tired of it. 