Ilya Salkind trips me out

[EnriqueH]

I love that guy. I love his commentaries on the DVDs.

[crazy_asian_man]

I agree... I grew up with absolute loathing for the Salkinds for firing Donner, but I have to admit, the guy seems so entertaining as a character to listen to- that he makes it hard to hate him.

[MerM]

I love commentaries in general - it's always fascinating to hear someone discuss their craft - but his are very entertaining and enthusiastic. You can tell he had love for the franchise and character (even if it didn't show terribly often ;D ).

[supermanearth2]

I enjoy the interviews Ilya Salkind has done, he's very knowledgeable, seems to know what he's talking about, etc. I liked the commentaries that he did with star John Haymes Newton for 2 episodes of Superboy season 1 DVD set. Newton was funny, while Salkind was being serious. Still, it was very informative to say the least. I have not had the time to watch Superman I-III commentaries that Ilya has done.

[EnriqueH]

I never understood the negativity towards the Salkinds.

Unfortunately, there were disagreements between them and Donner.

But the fact is that it was Ilya's idea to do a Superman movie and his dad put forth the money to do it. So without the Salkinds, there would've been no Chris Reeve. no Richard Donner directing, and there would be no Superman movie, period.

In listening to Ilya's comments over the years, it sounds to me as if he took the project quite seriously and he cared about what was on the screen. It was just an unfortunate side effect that there were disagreements.

[crazy_asian_man]


But the fact is that it was Ilya's idea to do a Superman movie and his dad put forth the money to do it. So without the Salkinds, there would've been no Chris Reeve. no Richard Donner directing, and there would be no Superman movie, period.
.

True.
On the flip side, without Donner to set the foundation, we probably would have had a version of STM that would be far more slapstick and mediocre... if Superman III was 100% Lester (and as far as we know it was)- that's the level of 'quality' we would have seen.

Without the Donner version-
Which was (according to various interviews with Sam Raimi, Chris Nolan,etc.) the model for 'Spiderman', 'Batman Begins' , and even the current 'Star Trek'...

Reeve might not have ended up a superstar, but maybe someone who would have stayed in theatre instead.

I doubt Superman would have been a flop, but with Star Wars setting the benchmark on fantasty films at that time- Superman could have been perhaps a mild success (along the lines of Superman III) or broken even, without a director like Donner.

The venom and anger towards the Salkinds for my part is that-

Donner/Baird knew how to put all the elements in place for a classic--- something that seems to come rarely in lifetimes- and when the first one became a box office megahit, when Donner insulted Spengler and blamed him for the problems of STM- the Salkinds chose to side with a family friend over the guy who knew how to make the movie right.

The power play that came out in between films was unfortunate.... I could see an agent telling Donner that, after STM, that was the time to put his foot on the ground and set ground rules on finishing SII- but that it resulted in him being fired is agonizing-

Not only for the quality of sequels Donner would have maintained- but also for the quality of SII that was halfway done.

Ilya Salkind was pretty open about being distracted personally during the making of SII, when Lester was destroying it- particularly all that comedy 'schtick' during the Metropolis battle- it's a pity that if Ilya was in charge of finishing the film, that he didn't either put more pressure on Lester to stick closer to Donner's tone and the Mank script- but since Lester's "3 Musketeers" was/is a classic- he probably felt safer to let Lester go and make a cheaper/faster finish to the film.

Mainly, the Salkinds had different options to finish the film properly that Donner set the foundation for- and screwed it up.... for all time. The closest we can get are remnants from it- and idea of what it would be like.

On a personal level, it's hard to argue loyalty to a lifetime friend (Spengler/Salkind)- on the other hand, it's not the best idea to mix friendship and business.

Ilya made a choice in choosing his friendship over Donner's vision for Superman- but the worse thing is that he chose the wrong director to finish it.

I could imagine if Ilya chose someone who was the equivalent of Bryan Singer then to finish Superman instead of Lester--- someone who really respected the original vision, what a film that might have been. If Tom Mankiewicz was offered the position to finish the film as writer/director.... but then again, Tom wasn't willing to go back as writer as a sign of support of Donner....

*sigh*

[atp]

On the other hand, if Donner had finished S2 then we wouldn't have had the Donner Cut in 2006 and "Please Mr Thau" would never have happened.

[MAVERICK]

Jun 16, 2009 13:57:16 GMT -5 atp said:

On the other hand, if Donner had finished S2 then we wouldn't have had the Donner Cut in 2006 and "Please Mr Thau" would never have happened.

Agreed........try to do it.

[Kamdan]

I'm pretty cool with Salkind. Thau's documentaries REALLY made them look like bad guys. I was happy to hear Ilya and Spangler's perspective in the new documentaries. The way I see it is that with without them, there would have been no $50 million dollar budgets for the films. I HIGHLY doubt if Donner was on his own, he wouldn't have had that much to blow on the movie. God bless 'em!

[crazy_asian_man]

I was happy to hear Ilya and Spangler's perspective in the new documentaries. The way I see it is that with without them, there would have been no $50 million dollar budgets for the films. I HIGHLY doubt if Donner was on his own, he wouldn't have had that much to blow on the movie. God bless 'em!

True- without the Salkinds, there would not have been a big budget Superman movie at all.
And without Richard Donner, there would not have been a classic Superman movie and half a classic Superman II movie.*


(*Going off of WHO would have probably been chosen instead, if Donner didn't: Richard Lester might have been next on the list to direct after Donner, the window to get Spielberg had closed because he was already on Close Encounters of the 3rd kind, and we all saw the rather weak test footage from what Guy Hamilton would have offered--- so, that tells me that's there's evidence that the Salkinds really did need Donner as THE only guy at that time who could turn Superman into a classic film. ).

[crazy_asian_man]

Also...

Would actually have been even more informative to have had (although probably impractical) Donner, Mankiewicz, Ilya Salkind, Pierre Salkind, and Richard Lester all in the SAME ROOM going over who did what- so we REALLY get a closer sense of how the filmmaking process went.

Would the process have gone better if Donner was let in on the budget?
Ilya Salkind co-produced (in some capacity) 3 features overseas at that time with
"The Three Musketeers/Four Musketeers" as the most successful prior to Superman, according to imdb- from 1971-1976: (it's not known if the other 3 films were successful or not, but 3 Musketeers was definitely)

www.imdb.com/name/nm0007163/

Richard Donner had 15 YEARS of tv experience from 1960-1975
and "The Omen"- which was a big blockbuster- under his belt. (1976)

www.imdb.com/name/nm0001149/

Donner wasn't a novice to working with budgets, if he had over 15 years of experience versus Salkind's 5 years of credited experience..... both had degrees of credibility if one looks at the surface- so why couldn't they all work together?

If Donner had 15 years+ of working with producers (and successfully), with the difference in years of credited experience- it gives Donner the benefit of the doubt that he probably new more of how things were normally done in the Hollywood system to generate a successful product without blowing out a budget.

More details are definitely lacking to get a closer picture.... but to Ilya's credit, he does sound genuinely like a nice guy who cares about product and movies- and I do like that he openly said he actually prefers STM to SII in printed interviews- actually during SIII (I think it was 'Fantastic Films' magazine, if I remember correctly), that says a lot right there to me.

BUT....
Who made the mistakes? It could have been problems on both sides-

But, for sure, we still don't have the whole story, even with commentaries and documentaries. Not enough. I'm totally fine with more more more info. (though would be satisfied with more DONNER footage in almost any form)

[Legsy]

I've been told he's one cool mofo. I find him extremely pompous, arrogant and sleazy. I find his commentary extremely laughable. But, if it weren't for Ilya and Alexander, we would have never had the movies.

[MerM]

Jun 16, 2009 18:34:57 GMT -5 Legsy said:

I've been told he's one cool mofo. I find him extremely pompous, arrogant and sleazy.

That last one can be chalked up to the Phil Spector pastiche on his head.

[EnriqueH]

Jun 16, 2009 18:34:57 GMT -5 Legsy said:

I've been told he's one cool mofo. I find him extremely pompous, arrogant and sleazy.

Really? Why? I don't get that at all.

[Legsy]

It's just the way he comes across, to me of course. I'm pretty sure he's cool, I've heard that from several people that have met him.

[Jor-L5150]

ilya is a charming , funny guy - i wouldnt leave him alone with my wife or sister , but he seems funny . ;D

i wish they could have done commentaries a few years sooner , pierre spengler actually did serious commentary , but he seems tired or bored ( bored with the ancient history drama ) - i think if he could have done this at the same time donner did one for STM he may have been a little more enthusiastic .
still - i enjoyed them a lot .

donner's commentaries are fun too - i love that ol' coot , but when he did STM he mostly talked about SII , so when he did SII he basically rehashed a lot. ( on his lethal weopon 4 he talked a LOT about omen and STM )

[Legsy]

Jun 18, 2009 9:18:45 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

ilya is a charming , funny guy - i wouldnt leave him alone with my wife or sister , but he seems funny . ;D

;D

[Jor-L5150]

Jun 16, 2009 16:08:31 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Also...

Would actually have been even more informative to have had (although probably impractical) Donner, Mankiewicz, Ilya Salkind, Pierre Salkind, and Richard Lester all in the SAME ROOM going over who did what- so we REALLY get a closer sense of how the filmmaking process went.

THAT could have turned violent ..... ;D

Would the process have gone better if Donner was let in on the budget?

Donner wasn't a novice to working with budgets, if he had over 15 years of experience versus Salkind's 5 years of credited experience..... both had degrees of credibility if one looks at the surface- so why couldn't they all work together?

If Donner had 15 years+ of working with producers (and successfully), with the difference in years of credited experience- it gives Donner the benefit of the doubt that he probably new more of how things were normally done in the Hollywood system to generate a successful product without blowing out a budget.

i think at the end of the day - they simply bit off more than they could chew. sure- it was over-budget , and i thank the salkinds for launching the series in the first place , but donner is a perfectionist and it was simply a very expensive movie to do in a way where it didnt look ridiculous . donner put story first and the money ran out quick . having to bargain for more funding and losing certain ownership understandably frustrated the salkinds.... and then you had personality clashes on top of that .

BUT....
Who made the mistakes? It could have been problems on both sides-

But, for sure, we still don't have the whole story, even with commentaries and documentaries.

i agree completely.

[crazy_asian_man]

i think at the end of the day - they simply bit off more than they could chew. sure- it was over-budget , and i thank the salkinds for launching the series in the first place , but donner is a perfectionist and it was simply a very expensive movie to do in a way where it didnt look ridiculous . donner put story first and the money ran out quick . having to bargain for more funding and losing certain ownership understandably frustrated the salkinds.... and then you had personality clashes on top of that .

I agree.... and also why there's definitely a missing element (if not more) to the story of how things went awry. I am also extremely thankful that the salkinds got the ball started and rolling- but moreso thankful that Donner directed.

I just can't imagine being on this forum, if STM was done with a Lester, uh, Lesser director-

[SuperSnooper]

Ilya Salkind sounds astounded that he got to make a film as big as Superman. Like a boy remembering his first Christmas. I think that Donner and Salkind needed each other as much as they'd like to admit.

I'd rather listen to Salkinds commentaries than listen to Donner/Mankie's "oh so same" commentaries for STM and S2 Donner cut.

[EnriqueH]

I remember enjoying Ilya's commentaries. He seemed candid, as I recall. He also seemed to address some of the criticisms from fans. And damnit, I was kinda moved by the way his voice cracked when talking about dad.

[crazy_asian_man]

I'd rather listen to Salkinds commentaries than listen to Donner/Mankie's "oh so same" commentaries for STM and S2 Donner cut.

I still contend that having someone talk to all four of them in the same room hashing it out would be the best damn interview since....well, you know what.

[SuperSnooper]

I think about 45 mins of the Salkinds, Spengler, Donner, Mank commentary would be like a sound effects cd of some chop socky action.

If I ever have any clout in the movie world I would definitely make a documentary on The Helicopter Sequence. Better be quick though before they all succumb to the Grim Reaper!

[Gandy]

Ilya has a lot of charisma and is well-read, that's my impression of him. When I met him I was shattered, I needed to sleep. I've never been so tired in my life.

It was surreal riding shotgun in his car along Mullholland Dr. It was so weird, and being in slumber heck made it almost dreamy.

It's been quiet on the Western front, I haven't heard anything from him. I'm hoping that he gets to make one of his planned epics.

[SuperSnooper]

Woulda been ever more dreamy if you'd have seen David Lynch moseying along Mulholland Drive, carrying his digital camera, smearing vaseline on the lens, with a backwards talking, jazz walking dwarf in tow, beckoning you towards a murder scene that didn't exist in this time and place.

I woulda thought anyway.