Conor
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Post by Conor on Jun 19, 2009 1:17:28 GMT -5
Ok fair enough! I saw a boob in Jor-El's post and got carried away!!  Will dit them now! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 19, 2009 3:39:33 GMT -5
I definitely preferred Routh's Clark Kent over Reeve's Clark Kent- although it's also the reverse when it comes to Supes. Reeve said in the 'Making of' special that the comics didn't really give him much of a model for how to play Clark, so that he modeled it after a character in a romantic comedy he was familiar with (I think it's Cary Grant in "Bringing Up Baby", but I'm not sure)... I would have rather that he didn't play it so broadly.... but since Donner seemed to be going for many different ingredients in his STM- maybe the over-the-top Clark was what he wanted right away... As far as Lois or Lana- (in movie continuity), Lana knew him as a childhood friend, so there's that sense of really falling in love with a person, from how they started off- ((*even though the Lester SIII wanted to play the romance broadly and for forced laughs, Annette O'Toole still came off great- (despite an absolutely horrible script--- it's FAR worse than SIV imo) and that basic idea still resonates)) versus... Lois' falling for someone based on their power and ability to provide the best story ever. Lois is a great pro-active character, maybe one of the best- but I get the sense that if the storyline for SII had continued with Superman depowered permanently, she'd eventually be bored with him and dump him like a rock. Even as a kid growing up with the Superman comix, I recognized (and was entertained by) Lois' being a bit of a pushy reporter- in contrast to Superman's easy-going nature.... but thought that Superman was much better off with Lorelei the Mermaid hottie. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 19, 2009 9:20:17 GMT -5
I loved Reeve's Clark in the first two, but I think he nailed it in SIII because it was the same Clark, but a little more realistically.
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jun 19, 2009 10:07:06 GMT -5
Aye. He even mentioned it in several interviews. I actually think he had better chemistry with O'Toole than Kidder.
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 19, 2009 12:53:13 GMT -5
CAM said, I definitely preferred Routh's Clark Kent over Reeve's Clark Kent- Same here. Routh's Clark could definitely exist in real life. I could fall for someone like him. Reeve said in the 'Making of' special that the comics didn't really give him much of a model for how to play Clark,Really? I understand that Elliot S! Maggin was writing the Superman comics during that time, and that his Clark was the bumbling type. There was also George Reeves' template, the Fleischer cartoons, which featured a very mildmannered Kent, and there was the old radio serials too. so that he modeled it after a character in a romantic comedy he was familiar with (I think it's Cary Grant in "Bringing Up Baby", but I'm not sure)... I would have rather that he didn't play it so broadly.Well, if it was his idea, it didn't work that well for me. His Clark was just too over the top and even painful to watch at times. It is as if Superman was trying too hard to not be 'discovered' or to seem so unlikeable and unattractive so that no woman could fall for him? but since Donner seemed to be going for many different ingredients in his STM- maybe the over-the-top Clark was what he wanted right away...That plus the very comedic villains is what hurts the film for me. It makes STM a kinda squisofrenic film at times; the Krypton and Smallville parts were so epic, dramatic and serious, but the Metropolis part is a weird mixture at times. But the score and Christopher Reeve's Superman saves and elevates it. As far as Lois or Lana- (in movie continuity), Lana knew him as a childhood friend, so there's that sense of really falling in love with a person, from how they started off- ((*even though the Lester SIII wanted to play the romance broadly and for forced laughs, Annette O'Toole still came off great- (despite an absolutely horrible script--- it's FAR worse than SIV imo) and that basic idea still resonates))Agreed. You know what scene in SIII I hated? When they were at the HS reunion party and Clark started dancing..... he looked so ridiculous it hurts. Why would Clark do that? To makes us laugh? Too forced, I think. versus...
Lois' falling for someone based on their power and ability to provide the best story ever. You think? Is she that shallow? It could also be that he was so nice, humble, wholesome and yes otherworldly handsome that she couldn't help it but fall for him. What woman in her place wouldn't? And viceversa, Clark also fell for this strong, spunky, independent woman who wasn't scared of him, who treated him as an equal. And who also likes adventure?  ;D Lois is a great pro-active character, maybe one of the best- but I get the sense that if the storyline for SII had continued with Superman depowered permanently, she'd eventually be bored with him and dump him like a rock.Who knows, it depends so much on how they write this characters. In the comics she loves him powers or not. In SR Lois chose Richard, for instance, even though she still loved Supes. Even as a kid growing up with the Superman comix, I recognized (and was entertained by) Lois' being a bit of a pushy reporter- in contrast to Superman's easy-going nature.... but thought that Superman was much better off with Lorelei the Mermaid hottie. But maybe Supes likes pushy women. Opposites attract. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 19, 2009 14:12:14 GMT -5
The more interviews I read and see with Routh, the more Routh seems to 'BE' the Clark Kent we saw in SR. For Reeve- (*who was a perfectionist to a fault, in his own autobio. Apparently when he saw STM he only saw all the parts he thought he was terrible in.)- I have a hunch he was hoping for much deeper info on Clark than what was available in the Fleischer, radio, and George Reeves versions of him. Maybe it's the reverse idea of STM- if Lana sees a prince in what others see as a frog- that adds to her appeal as a character to someone in real life. About role models for Clark by Reeve: Reeve mentioned looking at George Reeves' Superman a bit for ideas (the open smile and twinkle in the eye) for some influence- but Reeves' Clark Kent had a lot more dignity and less goofiness than Chris Reeve's.... but then again, they were probably going for the romantic comedy in broad strokes with the Lois/Clark/Supes triangle--- which is why I found it fun, but a bit problematic when they wanted to take the dual identity more serious (and the romance more serious). For example, the Pink Bear scene is a little odd versus the Donner screentest scene- in which - the screentest makes it seem like Donner's Lois never really wallows in self-pity over Supes' not spending more time with her... (and more fun and likeable in Mank's script- the Niagara falls' scenes that were refilmed by Lester also changes her to be more narcisstic and unpleasant).... When Lois tells him that she's in love with him, and Clark/Supes smiles--- it's just....awkward. The theatrical SII scenes in the beginning suggest that Supes AS CLARK wants Lois to fall for him as Clark, not Superman......but his over-the-top take as Clark makes it a bit of a mismatch. It works fine for broad comedy, but unless Superman really is schizophrenic---- in Donner/Reeve's eyes, Clark was just a 'put-on'- and never a real identity, so why would Clark care one whit if Lois was interested in him? It's inconsistent. It's a bit 'off'- just as the FOS dinner scene when Lois asks Supes about Clark... it's ok if you don't dwell on it, but Donner/Mankiewicz's script didn't take its eyes off the idea that Clark in Metropolis was never anything more than a mask without real feelings*, since it's a lie to begin with. (*Or if he did, it wasn't very smoothly written). Anyhow, Reeve just mentioned it briefly, but he did say it in a couple of interviews- (Inside the Actors' studio and in the Making of) about modeling Clark after a romantic comedy's character. He did seem to also take in a little of George Reeves and the mild-mannered nature of the Fleischer cartoons, too--- but it could be speculation as well. Reeve was probably talking about trying to get a deeper model of character than what the comic books offer.... Absolutely, I agree- but had Donner stayed, I think it would have gelled better in SII- for reasons mentioned above: more consistency with the take of Clark as being TOTAL put-on. Well....also Kidder's contrast with Reeve's Superman makes for interesting chemistry, as well as the filmmaking in general. (Composition, art direction, etc. still holds up amazingly imo) It's the schizophrenia of trying to have it both ways in Lester's take on Superman. He wanted audiences to laugh until it hurt (I experienced one, but not the other ;p ) in Superman III- but also wanted audiences to take Clark's character seriously enough so that the Lana/Clark 'romance' (if you can call it that)- would matter. Something deeper could easily have been woven into the script about identity and who was what, and how Lana also played into who the character was, but instead- Lester went with the 'lame-as-possible' route. If I recall reprints of the original 30's Superman comics, Lois is a great reporter, but pretty lousy with her co-workers. They played into this a bit (correctly I think) in some Lois/Clark episodes, where she was so addicted to the thrill of getting a story, that- if push comes to shove, she would burn co-workers for it. Lois isn't evil, but (and, as you mentioned, depends who writes her)- being a people-person isn't her highest value as a character. ((She potentially endangers her child in chasing a story, too....horrible mom. Good thing the kid is invulnerable)) I wouldn't change that about her as a character- it's a funny element that Superman falls for someone who is definitely NOT perfect. Opposites make characters (potentially) grow- and while Superman in STM is naive and trusting and pure- Lois is cynical, aggressive, and may or may not have been with someone else before chasing Kryptonians. Is Lois shallow? Depends on who writes her....but I would tend to say... YES. As a character, she should stay with Supes as the love of Supes' life- but I think it was a mistake for them to get married so early in the comics. (And apparently, from what I've read on the net, a number of DC writers agree) On the flip side, while I might find a character like Lois fun, Lana would be the one to crush a rock into a diamond for. (If a mermaid were not available. )Go Clark. I would like to think that the appeal to me that Supes falls head over heels for someone who is VERY imperfect- like Lois. At the same time, what he probably loves about her is how she has this strength to be fearless for a story (partially for the good of the world, but partially for the thrill of the chase), while being physically vulnerable and yet not shying away from any danger, when any other human being would. It's admirable, agreed. In a way, it's probably a truer character thing for Lois that she would be so reckless as to endanger her own child for a story. Doesn't make her a role model, but it fits her character....flaws and all. I think Lois is designed so shallow for story purposes, that Lana (not the Smallville nightmare version) - the version that Byrne wrote, who knows his identity - would be capable of love. I still feel Lois is a damaged character - who can't - but the flaws are what make her interesting to begin with. Also....on another note about what Lois sees in Superman- or guys in general- in SR: The printed screenplay notes that Richard was supposed to be a tall, handsome guy who resembled Supes, only without the powers. Cyclops is quite a bit shorter, but it was interesting to see that this is what the writers had in mind all along. I get that Richard seems like a good guy ((though a bit dense for someone who works on a major newspaper. "Kryptonite? Lois....what's that? Is it deadly- to everyone?")) but I didn't get that he was supposed to come off as incredibly similar physically to Supes.... which, in the screenplay, suggests that if Supes hadn't come along, Lois would have went for someone that resembled his 'type'. (Apparently bald, short, and overweight isn't Lois' type....though it would have been amusing if Jack Black were cast instead of Marsden as the man who took Supes' place. Would have DEFINITELY been a different SR than what we got.) I find that seems very true in life....for the most part. (( Maybe that's why so many marriages end in horrible bitter divorces? There's a psychology book out there that mentioned how the things that attract people also end up being the thing that splits them up- but that's probably stuff for another forum---)) |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jun 19, 2009 15:19:58 GMT -5
It makes STM a kinda squisofrenic film at times; the Krypton and Smallville parts were so epic, dramatic and serious, but the Metropolis part is a weird mixture at times. STM is like three movies in one. Krypton, Smallville ... and BAM! we get to Metropolis. |
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jun 19, 2009 15:32:14 GMT -5
;D
Was it Mank or Donner who said that?
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Post by 1stelder on Jun 20, 2009 11:03:57 GMT -5
Was it Mank or Donner who said that? Mankiewicz on the STM movie commentary. |
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 20, 2009 12:20:16 GMT -5
When Lois tells him that she's in love with him, and Clark/Supes smiles--- it's just....awkward. The theatrical SII scenes in the beginning suggest that Supes AS CLARK wants Lois to fall for him as Clark, not Superman......but his over-the-top take as Clark makes it a bit of a mismatch. It works fine for broad comedy, but unless Superman really is schizophrenic---- in Donner/Reeve's eyes, Clark was just a 'put-on'- and never a real identity, so why would Clark care one whit if Lois was interested in him? .   aw, I knew it wasn't correct the way I wrote it in my previous post but was too lazy to check it out on the dictionary. Sorry. It's a word I was not familiar with, and English is my second language. Thank you for showing the correct spelling.  Also, I will reply to your very interesting post later; it's long and I want to reply properly but have to go out right now. I'm going to the solstice parade here in town. It's awesome!  |
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Post by ReeveIsSuperman on Jun 20, 2009 12:31:30 GMT -5
 Maybe this pic will help sway the Opinion. But actually, I think I give the edge to Lana Lang too- she was just a sweeter type and had that Red hair. Either way- the SR teenage Lois is a distant 3rd- due to the child labor law infraction. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 20, 2009 14:16:50 GMT -5
Schizophrenic is a word that rarely gets used- not a big deal at all. Have a great time at the parade! |
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 20, 2009 23:48:27 GMT -5
Schizophrenic is a word that rarely gets used- not a big deal at all. Have a great time at the parade! Thanks. And the parade was ok. Been better other years. The best part was this little dancer kid --about 2-3 years of age-- he was adorable and everybody loved him!! ;D |
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Jun 20, 2009 23:54:24 GMT -5
schizophrenic. aw, I knew it wasn't correct the way I wrote it in my previous post but was too lazy to check it out on the dictionary. Sorry. It's a word I was not familiar with, and English is my second language. Thank you for showing the correct spelling. Also, I will reply to your very interesting post later; it's long and I want to reply properly but have to go out right now. I'm going to the solstice parade here in town. It's awesome! You certainly speak (type?) it well. What's your first, if I may ask? |
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 21, 2009 11:17:02 GMT -5
schizophrenic. aw, I knew it wasn't correct the way I wrote it in my previous post but was too lazy to check it out on the dictionary. Sorry. It's a word I was not familiar with, and English is my second language. Thank you for showing the correct spelling. Also, I will reply to your very interesting post later; it's long and I want to reply properly but have to go out right now. I'm going to the solstice parade here in town. It's awesome! You certainly speak (type?) it well. What's your first, if I may ask? Thanks! I also speak it fluently. Been practicing for many years already but it isn't exactly perfect. Oh, and my first language is Spanish, como la ves chico guapo? And now I even want to learn Italian! ;D |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 21, 2009 11:30:53 GMT -5
Spanish is your first language? Where are you from?
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jun 21, 2009 16:15:18 GMT -5
There be lots of Hispanics here.
Oh, anyone else find it interesting that ReeveISSuperman started posting again after Adam was banned?
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matt
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Post by matt on Jun 21, 2009 19:07:57 GMT -5
There be lots of Hispanics here. Oh, anyone else find it interesting that ReeveISSuperman started posting again after Adam was banned?  |
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 22, 2009 1:50:12 GMT -5
  ;D Spanish is your first language? Where are you from? I'm originally from Celaya, Guanajuato, Mexico.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 2:20:19 GMT -5
Annette
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Post by 1stelder on Jun 22, 2009 11:47:03 GMT -5
Further proof that SIII wasn't all bad. I loved all the Smallville scenes. And despite the occasional annoyance from Ricky, I rather liked the modern approach to making Lana a single mom. She and Reeve had chemistry and I would've liked if their relationship was taken farther since the Lois angle was pretty well explored in STM and SII. "You tell Superman we think he's wonderful, but Clark...you're the best." Lois certainly never said that. I thought it was cool to see Clark get something on his own. Lois was too taken in by the godly, movie star thing that was Superman. Indeed. Clark gets reacquainted with the lovely Lana here- A good sequence. And it was nice to see Clark win out over Brad after his treatment of him in STM. Too bad there weren't more Lana scenes than the ones that already exist. They would've definitely improved the film. I am going to watch SIII again tonight with some friends whose kids we've been showing the Superman films to and we'll see how they like it. |
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Post by ReeveIsSuperman on Jun 22, 2009 11:52:31 GMT -5
There be lots of Hispanics here. Oh, anyone else find it interesting that ReeveISSuperman started posting again after Adam was banned? Who is Adam? Sorry, dont know him or remember him. |
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jun 22, 2009 15:49:29 GMT -5
Right...
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 22, 2009 16:16:58 GMT -5
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jun 22, 2009 16:19:07 GMT -5
I want to poke his belly button with my finger.
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Will dit them now!
aw, I knew it wasn't correct the way I wrote it in my previous post but was too lazy to check it out on the dictionary. Sorry. It's a word I was not familiar with, and English is my second language. Thank you for showing the correct spelling. 
