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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 13, 2010 10:38:42 GMT -5
I don't know if he would- I've been trying to gauge what his cut's outline is, based on the video clips he's put out there.
Tyler was fantastic in discovering that Selutron's been using (altered) clips from "The Swarm" and one of the "Airplane" movies to complete his vision- (as well as his own footage- the DC stuff, I believe)- but I do know that he was trying to recruit model builders to help with his Metro battle--- which I was looking forwards to, but am wondering if there's not that big of a battle planned to begin with....
At the end, only so much you can add with what's there...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 18, 2010 10:49:14 GMT -5
I have no idea if Selutron views this board, but if he does, this seems an appropriate place as any to mention hopes of what I'd like him to fix for an official cut (should it happen):
* Opening credits - smoother transition- his 'time travel' piece is well done- but.... personally, it opens up a can of worms - but maybe it works well overall. I do know that he didn't like "FREE!!!!"- so he axed it out.
(*sigh*)
* Concorde opening: If he gets access to the WB footage vault, it'd be interesting to see how this is cut from the 'real' stuff. Storyboards show it to be a more elaborate experience.
* Supes to Clark sequence: Preference that he blends in the cab hit, as it's in the Donner script.
* DP jump: Supersebastian awhile ago had an EXCELLENT idea to use the deleted footage from STM (where Supes is standing) and use the 'back and forth pov' of Lois looking at Clark/then Supes as she's drawing him.
And- digging Selutron's changes- except for the unnecessary head-pasting on Clark, when he's on the ground. I know the eyebeams Thau's sfx company put in look too thick and terrible, but unneeded head pasting is worse imo.
* Lex prison stuff: actually am fine with the trimmed version shown in the LC.
* Moon attack: Hopefully the Nasa monitoring station stuff (where the action is cut back to ) is swapped out for serious Nasa footage from a movie & rotoscoped/blended in. Hopefully Selutron restores the IRC: "And men....to kill! And I will lead!"- that was an INCREDIBLE 'all in one take' shot on the IRC. Why didn't Thau include the extension here? Bizzare.
* Honeymoon Haven/Niagara: Can't do much with it- maybe trim/swap out bad Lester gags by the bystanders as much as possible.
* The combination Honeymoon Haven/screentest...... I dunno- even if the concept video he made was just as a concept, it's admirable, but would have (reluctantly) gone with the Pink Bear version....
OR .... have it rotoscoped with the alternate takes so that Clark's haircut/glasses aren't changing constantly--- though, I know that rotoscoping this so that there are changing takes (long, medium, over the shoulder/etc.) would be a task.
* Villains land- BEFORE Washington & trash the world. Yup, yup, yup.
ATP's dream scene.
* Supes to FOS/ Home movies. We saw the sample on Capedwonder, looks pretty good! (even though I'm not that crazy about that single crystal it's viewed through- looks like a big toy)
* Villains attack Washington DC/ Generals scene- I understand why Selutron chose to have the soldier's 'frozen' by the villains' breath, but to me, it looks TOO hokey. Other than that, love the rest of the scenes he's done in mixing it with 'The Swarm'.
* Depowering: I guess he's doing a concept version of headpasting Lois onto the 'S' shirt- but the easier route seems to paste in Lester version of Lois into the RDC rather than deal with headpasting again..... if he can match it perfectly, that's great, but.....
* Lex/Jorel: Selutron's is better......with what he has available. If given a choice, and Selutron is given the greenlight to go into the vault, I say, just have Selutron redo the fx properly (as Thau's company should have done if they were actually paid)- to match STM. People CAN figure out what's real/not with Supes/Jorel talking, even with no visual cue.
* Diner/Villains' break into the Wht House- Donner stuff primarily, although I'm so curious whether or not Baird's stuff was altered (or more preserved) in the LC than RDC here. (Ursa winking at the guy before kicking him)
* Repowering: There's a weird cut that Selutron does in the beginning of it, but I do like the green lighting to blue choice that he made, although not originally lit to be in the dark- rotoscoping could help, but maybe more work than it's worth in the end....
* White House talk: Hopefully Selutron restores: "Praying....to me!"
* DP arrival: I can't stand Lois' wig in Lester's SII. RDC with Thorne music score that was (unnecessarily) taken out.
* Metro battle: hopefully there's more here, than in either LC or RDC version. Camp removed, action re-installed.
* DP return: Oddly, there are shots in how the LC are edited with Donner's footage that is cut better than the RDC- This is also in the Fortress final confrontation. Hopefully Selutron comes up with the best mix.
* Restoration of the deleted scenes from SII (Arctic police, and villains enter FOS)
* Restoration of the original voicework to Kidder in the scenes around here (as were in the IRC) plus PLEASE reinsert the original dialogue/music from IRC-
* The 'heartbreaking' ending? (I can only imagine it ending with the balcony)
Anyhow, if there is a 'wishlist' for Selutron, (should he get the job) then that's my two cents....
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 18, 2010 11:06:21 GMT -5
I too enjoy the tighter editing of Donner's work in TLC as follows:
Lex and Otis in prison
I like the moon attack intercut with mission control TDC
The White House attack and Lex in Oval room
TDP villains arrive,but-agree Margo looks better in TDC footage
I always keep these scenes in when looking at editing II.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 18, 2010 17:15:26 GMT -5
The only thing I don't agree with is the music from the RIC for the balcony scene. It's the same music from when Clark and Lois approach the bed after losing his powers. Yes, the DC re-hashes music as well, but at least it isn't the same music that we heard less than an hour ago. I mean, even if you watched 1 and 2 back-to-back (Donner Cut), you'd only hear the same song again about 2 hours apart.
Then again, if you watch 1 and 2 back to back, Lester or Donner, it's ALL the same music re-hashed, except only it sounds slightly worse under Thornes orchestra than Williams'. Though to be fair, it's certainly much worse when watching 3, and hearing the "villains theme" music when Supes is evil. Ugh, talk about sucking the cow's teet till it's dry lol. heck, the sound effect of the compactor machine starting when EvilSupes tries to crush Clark is the same sound effect in Lester's de-powering when the FOS turn red.
Sorry, I'm rambling now. Anyway, it would've been nice if Lester simply told Thorne "Ok, we need new music cues for these scenes", instead of " just re-do all of Williams' music".
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 18, 2010 17:19:09 GMT -5
heck, the sound effect of the compactor machine starting when EvilSupes tries to crush Clark is the same sound effect in Lester's de-powering when the FOS turn red. If you listen to the original sound mix for STM, you'll hear a lot of those same sound effects too. They weren't a huge production, so they probably only had a few sound effects to choose from. Huge movies, small movies, I still hear the same baby/cat/horse sound effects used year after year.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 18, 2010 17:53:25 GMT -5
I think in cut ideas to suggest to Selutron--- if there's a feeling of 'blasphemy' for re-using sounds/ shots/ etc.--- While OF COURSE it's not preferred (and we all hated it in SIV...) * Reused shots and rotoscoped actors were already used in "The Crow" when Brandon Lee died prematurely- (and tragically)- yet, it's still a great film... that had to get done but working around the inability to shoot new footage with the actor. * Repeated footage was used in "Star Wars: a New Hope", and I believe that it won for best editing at the Academy Awards, if I recall right. (the Sandperson shaking the weapon above his head repeatedly and I think a couple of the fx shots). Stuff like the 70's 'Battlestar Galactica' reused shots to a ridiculous level- but given that there's no real budget probably ever going to be offered for SII- not even for a fresh score..... some recycling I think can be forgiven--- but how it's recycled definitely needs a delicate touch, editingwise..... Something, sadly, that wasn't present for the RDC....  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 19, 2010 9:43:26 GMT -5
Speaking of the sound effects for the theatrical of Superman, I recently re-bought Superman 1 on vhs because I was very disappointed to find out that disc 1 of the 14 disc set, the one that's supposed to be the original sound mix, was still the director's cut sound. So upon listening to the original sound mix after not hearing it for probably a good 10 years, I was surprised to hear how cheap the sound effects really are. Right down to the "whoosh" sound for names during the opening credits.
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 19, 2010 11:20:59 GMT -5
-So just to clarify,the sound mix on STM (Theatrical) and the 2001 Thau Cut are not original,but a VHS copy is?
The mind boggles,why can't they get ANYTHING right?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 19, 2010 11:36:03 GMT -5
If memory serves right, if you go to the sound options- the 2.0 audio should be the original sound when you switch to it. But then again, if it doesn't have that option, you may have bought the first set that came out before they gave an option for a replacement disc.
The original sounds, like the sfx, are for their time. I didn't mind Thau's idea of 'downgrading' additional new fx in Superman II to 1978-1980 standards for the RDC- but it's downgraded to 1950's standards. (bah, humbug!) ;p
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 19, 2010 12:10:47 GMT -5
I downloaded it from a torrent actually, as I refuse to give WB any more of my money when they keep screwing up what should be a simple process. Anyway, I'm assuming the torrent is from a newer release of the 14 disc set (though S3 still has the wires so you may be right). Yes, the theatrical is simply the 5.1 sound remix, downgraded to 2.0. I plan on recording my vhs copy onto a dvd, then going through the painstaking process of using the audio from that dvd, muted the audio for the theatrical disc, and getting it all to sync up. If I can get it to work (which unfortunately means watching it from beginning to end and CAREFULLY observing if the sound is in sync with the action/dialogue), I'll post it up on fanedit.org so people can watch Superman the way they remember it, once and for all.
Never send a Thau to do an editor's job. I think I'm gonna make that my signature from now on.
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Post by Kamdan on Nov 19, 2010 12:24:12 GMT -5
Or you can just buy the Superman 4 Film Favorites DVD and save you the time and effort of making that edit.
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atp
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Post by atp on Nov 19, 2010 12:27:09 GMT -5
Never send a Thau to do an editor's job. I think I'm gonna make that my signature from now on. That's only his last name; he likes to be called Mr. Thau. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 19, 2010 12:49:38 GMT -5
The original vhs (depending how far you go back) excised the end credits for one title card & also trimmed frames from the dam break sequence.... (I know because I bought this back in the day) Hopefully subsequent vhs's fixed this..... pity it doesn't have any real collector's value, like a flawed stamp or coin.... On the flip side, that's a lot of work for a dvd that exists already- you may have a version of the disc before the 'recall'. Personally, for the amount of time involved, my preference is to just buy the dvd used (so long as it's the right version of course), to save money.... (Amazon's third parties or ebay)...but if you have the energy & time for MORE editing....  |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 19, 2010 13:45:03 GMT -5
Thau doesn't deserve the title of "Mister", troll. As for the 4 fan film favorites, I'd prefer the 4 disc if it had the right sound mix. As for the vhs tape, the one I have is copyrighted as 1996. So it's not that old CAM. Though the picture and sound quality is horrible lol.
Maybe I should stop by Best Buy and buy the dvd, give it a listen, and if it's still the wrong mix, I'll just return it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 19, 2010 13:51:21 GMT -5
The 'film favorites's actually a pretty GREAT deal at $10.00 for four Superman movies- it's double-sided, so it's not (from what I glean) compressed to heck to squeeze onto one disc, and the extras I think are a number of extras on SII- SIII - SIV, which is superior to the original dvd releases, which had none.
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Post by joey m on Nov 24, 2010 19:35:30 GMT -5
Pretty sure the "option 2" audio on the theatrical dvd is the original.
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atp
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Post by atp on Nov 25, 2010 12:55:12 GMT -5
Thau doesn't deserve the title of "Mister". Actually, he does. It's pretty disrespectful to talk about him that way. He was the only reason we got to see a Donner cut, including the Brando footage. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 25, 2010 13:31:08 GMT -5
That's the odd thing:
* WHY is it that Thau was the only reason?
Reportedly Ilya Salkind and Donner approached WB earlier on..... but somehow either the new Supes tv show or a new movie at the time turned it into a 'no'.
Understandably, because of Singer's negotiating to use Brando in SR- THAT had to be a part of it..... but..... Was it because of Thau's willingness to deliver for a small budget/time that no one else would do? (pre-Selutron)
Or....what? Again, only guessing here.....
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Nov 25, 2010 16:07:19 GMT -5
Would have been nice to have some new music in SII instead of recycling existing themes.
In SIII I kinda like the music when Superman is bad ?
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Nov 25, 2010 22:22:14 GMT -5
Actually, he does. It's pretty disrespectful to talk about him that way. He was the only reason we got to see a Donner cut, including the Brando footage. It's also disrespectful to flood the threads on this board with the exact same jibber jabber over and over again for the last 4 years, troll. Also, Thau only worked on the Donner Cut because WB hired him. Singer got the ball rolling as far as I'm concerned. |
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matt
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Post by matt on Feb 7, 2011 1:16:48 GMT -5
Obvious by now this project isn't moving forward. There has been nothing new mentioned about this edit by WB or Selutron. I wonder will Selutron ever reveal his new ending for his edit?
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HOSNI
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Post by HOSNI on Feb 7, 2011 4:55:45 GMT -5
Who knows? Now that a new film has been greenlit the Warners Bros marketing machine might be more open to remastering/re-editing/repackaging the Donner films in the lead up.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Feb 7, 2011 10:51:09 GMT -5
Who knows? Now that a new film has been greenlit the Warners Bros marketing machine might be more open to remastering/re-editing/repackaging the Donner films in the lead up. I certainly hope so. Assuming this project moves forward, I have a feeling we may hear something from Selutron soon enough. TBH I could care less what they do with this film. If it it'll allow there to be another try with S2, it's all good to me. |
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 7, 2011 12:06:22 GMT -5
I agree please.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 7, 2011 12:15:58 GMT -5
If Selutron's isn't happening & an extended one isn't happening under anyone else, then I hope that at the LEAST that they release a dvd-quality IRC release of SII....
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