matt
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Post by matt on Feb 7, 2011 12:58:07 GMT -5
Wouldn't there have to be ongoing negotiations with Lester and Donner and actors to use there footage to make one complete movie. There as Superman III footage used in his clips I thought he wanted to make STM and SII edit. I was just curious on how he would have edited the movies. There hasn't been any news on this so I thought it was forgotten or abandoned by him. I would think if they want to capitalize on this edit the time to do it is now.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 7, 2011 13:17:35 GMT -5
This is the odd thing: Apparently he must have gotten permission from WB to have the samples play on Capedwonder, to test interest. But those WB clips also have the digitally altered "The Swarm" movie as part of it.
If Selutron's version requires re-engineering a whole separate film (With a different slew of actors, director, etc.) to be blended into it-
#1: how costly is it to be able to license this stuff?
#2: does this set a dangerous precedent (dangerous in terms of what studios are allowed to use past footage of their movies)--- or is this not a big deal for older movies, so long as it's part of the WB library?
So- I very much wonder about that. I know that a lot of the bad 'disaster' straight-to-dvd films license footage from other sources all the time to work into their own film, so this might not be a big deal after all.
On the other hand- if Thau just re-edited the RDC better to expand it and blend elements of STM/SII (including more roto if necessary), this could be the cheapest route- next to just releasing the ABC-tv version (but letterbox) to dvd.
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matt
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Post by matt on Feb 7, 2011 13:27:47 GMT -5
Even without doing new effects for a new edit it can still be made to be a great movie. The Donner cut should and could have been handled so much better. The way it was put together was amateurish compared to fan edits.
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Post by lois on Feb 7, 2011 14:04:51 GMT -5
Even if it meant using a little more Lester footage, Warners could create an uplifting ending that makes sense for a Superman II Donner Cut revisit. • Superman wipes Lois’s memory (and only Lois) on the balcony, perhaps when he touches her face and says “I know that Lois…” • Superman flies off, “up up and away etc” • Now insert the Diner scene - placing it here suggests it’s the same evening • Establishing shot of Metropolis, the next morning • Daily Planet, open with Clark walking in and says “good morning Lois” (remove the scene where Perry appears dazed and confused in his office as time reversal never occurred) • Clark agrees to buy the Pizza, bumps into Jimmy in the elevator lobby and discusses the new camera • Cut the elevator thug entirely • Back to Clark – insert the super hearing effect (same we see in Superman 3 when Clark hears Buster whimpering) • His expression changes with gun shots and screaming – there’s a bank robbery occurring down town • Heads to the Janitor closet with new CG background resembling a stair well, zooms down the stair well • Reuse the ‘zoom’ scene through lobby revolving door from DP jump scene • Insert Lester Alleyway change starting with Clark out front of the DP • Replace upward flight with Lester S3 shot after Supes rescues drowning man • CityScape shot then fade to black (assuming Superman saved the day) • END with usual space fly by   I like those ideas. Thanks also for sharing those images.  I wouldn't mind adding Selutron's Superman II cut to my collection.  |
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Post by lois on Feb 7, 2011 14:14:04 GMT -5
Even without doing new effects for a new edit it can still be made to be a great movie. The Donner cut should and could have been handled so much better. The way it was put together was amateurish compared to fan edits. I respectfully disagree. I really enjoyed it and have seen it many times. I've watched how they created the film in the features section. I didn't find it amateurish at all. I also didn't watch the Donner cut mostly as a film, but, more like the vision Donner had in mind for Superman II. Pardon the pun, I let my imagination soar while watching it. It was super! |
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Post by lois on Feb 7, 2011 14:17:51 GMT -5
Or you can just buy the Superman 4 Film Favorites DVD and save you the time and effort of making that edit. Just bought that today. Wanted to add it to my Superman collection. It's also interesting how the director's cut differ from the international versions of a film and the theatrical and TV versions. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 7, 2011 14:29:08 GMT -5
Like the way that they treat some of the older classic 'restorations', where the footage was impossible to get/find, I would have preferred that storyboards and script subtitles have been put in (where Donner was not able to shoot the material), rather than try to splice in the Lester stuff.
The main thing that I was offended by in the Thau cut was Thau's (unnecessary) overcutting of the Donner material, which was cut far better in the IRC that played on tv & the HORRIBLE music edit job, that felt like someone was blaring a boombox in my living room as I was trying to watch the film. I give him some slack for not including some of the preferred scenes that Donner himself mentioned he didn't want in, but still..... ough.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 7, 2011 14:32:28 GMT -5
There have been a ton of great ideas by other cutters for the ending. With the current technology, it's possible to have a blu-ray where you can 'click' on preferred alternate endings- if WB chose to have a version of SII where different endings are pre-edited and available.
Would be nice, but pretty unlikely WB will go there....
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 7, 2011 15:01:43 GMT -5
Even without doing new effects for a new edit it can still be made to be a great movie. The Donner cut should and could have been handled so much better. The way it was put together was amateurish compared to fan edits. Let's not forget that the fan edits have had the luxury of having all the raw material at hand. Mr Thau had to source all the footage from where it had been in storage. Also, fan cuts have had the luxury of unlimited time and no pressures or deadlines. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 7, 2011 15:06:45 GMT -5
I get that....but Thau's bad judgement is more of what kills me. It seems like he had good intentions, but in the end, its hard to find people who think the end result of the editing decisions was 'ok' , let alone 'good'. *sigh*
Seems like could have saved so much time by keeping the Baird-edited Lester footage 'as is'- scored by Ken Thorne, rather than (unnecessarily) reworking those & just focus on the other half of the film.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Feb 7, 2011 18:35:52 GMT -5
There shouldn't have been a deadline. We've been writing to WB for years about this. They should've been working on editing this thing properly since 2002/2003. The editing in that film is a perfect example of how NOT to edit movies. I swear, Thau users the audio cue of the next scene in order to segue to the next scene at least 20 times. For example, the marbles bouncing off each other as Non watches them. We hear the clicking as Clark looks up and reflects on what he has to do (end of the Diner scene). Not only is this the cheapest way to do a segue, but it also kills off any and all emotional weight with this moment. The song used in the b.g is the same as the theatrical, but Thau fades it out way too quickly in order to get those "clicking" sounds of the marbles in in order to do the segue. At least in the theatrical we hear the music cue finish as we do a fade cut to Clark walking in the snow. THAT'S how you segue to the next scene. It gives the audience time to feel Clark's plight and become emotionally invested with the drama going on. With Thau's cheap cuts it feels more like "Ok, this scene is over now. Onto the next scene!!" Amateur. Absolutely amateur.
I agree with CAM. They should've simply given us a dvd of the RIC version, with the Brando scenes as supplemental on disc 2. At least THAT would've been done right in what little time they put into this project.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 7, 2011 22:50:18 GMT -5
It's a pity that neither Singer nor Donner were excited enough about the project to jump in and produce this thing flat out, even if they had to pump in a few of their own dollars for a percentage. I'd LOVE to have been the accountant on this project and find out just how much was properly allocated, or if the Brando rights just gobbled up all the cash alloted for this project.
Hopefully the Selutron project hits SOME market, if WB isn't willing to get enough behind any other extended cut... or.... as I've been saying, just release the damn IRC SII cut in dvd quality, widescreen. *sigh*
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 8, 2011 12:15:58 GMT -5
The budget for the Donner Cut was originally going to be much higher. They were banking on using revenues from Superman Returns to fund the production of the Donner Cut. But with SR flopping the way it did, the budget was cut drastically.
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 8, 2011 13:06:58 GMT -5
So they're trying to blame the lackluster Superman Returns on why The Donner Cut got the shaft? Maybe they should have made a better film that EVERYONE could have enjoyed. ;D
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 8, 2011 14:04:58 GMT -5
Is this a joke, or is this for real?
Were they REALLY going to use revenues to bump up the Donner cut?
In any case, with NO money (as the fan cutters have none)- far superior versions all came out- thus, why there's so much animosity towards Thau. I might have forgiven some of the poor music editing (not easy to do even with time- the latest "Family Guy" Star Wars parody even talked about how difficult re-using music for sequences are that are even a few seconds longer, that it was never meant for)..... but the overcutting and changes (for the worse ) of existing once cut material for tv kills it.
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HOSNI
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Post by HOSNI on Feb 8, 2011 18:12:53 GMT -5
The budget for the Donner Cut was originally going to be much higher. They were banking on using revenues from Superman Returns to fund the production of the Donner Cut. But with SR flopping the way it did, the budget was cut drastically. They were assembling the Donner cut at the same time SR was still in production. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Feb 8, 2011 23:18:52 GMT -5
The budget for the Donner Cut was originally going to be much higher. They were banking on using revenues from Superman Returns to fund the production of the Donner Cut. But with SR flopping the way it did, the budget was cut drastically. I'd like to see some facts before I believe this, but it seems easy enough to believe. And if it is true then all I can give is a sarcastic "Woooooow". |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 9, 2011 3:27:02 GMT -5
The more I think about this, the more I find it too unlikely that WB ever had in mind giving the Donner cut all that much support even if SR made billions.
Reasons?
#1: The material may have seemed too flawed to invest that much money in it, to begin with.
The lack of footage could well have prevented that truly great cut, and I think that WB knew it. More shooting wouldn't be much of a possibility, even if the money were there, as the actors are WAY too old to match their younger incarnations, and the other director tried to make it a farce.
#2: I have a feeling even the original director wasn't as convinced that the final product could be great, given the situation--- otherwise he might have fought harder for it.
They could have done a Donner restoration years ago.... if they were really that serious about it. Donner's success with the Lethal Weapon series for WB at the time I believe could have given Donner that clout- if he was excited enough about it to keep bugging WB in the past on it. But, doesn't seem like that was the case, or.... WB's indecisiveness may also have been at the core of it, too-
#3: The time frame- Even if more money was pumped in, hard to say if that necessarily would have solved all the problems- if I remember right, the window of time from SR being released & the dvd set being released wasn't all that big.
I'm definitely curious if this is true, though. Would give me hope that they might be more interested in investing more money again the next time around to also help pump up interest in Superman in general before the Snyder film arrives...
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Gandy
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Post by Gandy on Feb 9, 2011 8:08:28 GMT -5
The budget for the Donner Cut was originally going to be much higher. They were banking on using revenues from Superman Returns to fund the production of the Donner Cut. But with SR flopping the way it did, the budget was cut drastically. I don't think that's true, ATP. The Donner cut was being prepped whilst SR was in production. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Feb 9, 2011 9:43:06 GMT -5
I think ATP wanted to emphasise "SR flopping" ;D
I think they had the resources to create a good product; it was some choices that screwed up the end result, mostly:
Film doesn't flow as a film at all; extremely poor editing
Music fucked up
Cut out Lester's excellent footage seemingly out of spite/"revenge"
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 9, 2011 13:26:00 GMT -5
The budget for the Donner Cut was originally going to be much higher. They were banking on using revenues from Superman Returns to fund the production of the Donner Cut. But with SR flopping the way it did, the budget was cut drastically. I'd like to see some facts before I believe this, but it seems easy enough to believe. And if it is true then all I can give is a sarcastic "Woooooow". It is true, please. |
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Post by lois on Feb 9, 2011 14:08:12 GMT -5
Wouldn't there have to be ongoing negotiations with Lester and Donner and actors to use there footage to make one complete movie. There as Superman III footage used in his clips I thought he wanted to make STM and SII edit. I was just curious on how he would have edited the movies. There hasn't been any news on this so I thought it was forgotten or abandoned by him. I would think if they want to capitalize on this edit the time to do it is now. Interesting points. I've wondered about that myself. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 9, 2011 19:41:23 GMT -5
I agree, but you summed it up more concisely. Before when it was mentioned that Donner might recut it together with Ilya, that might have been far more balanced......maybe. (It's hard to picture Donner being able to reign in his anger long enough to go through the whole process of editing with the guy who fired him.) Actually, even your first line sums it up- With or without a budget- the RDC doesn't flow well at all.  |
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matt
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Post by matt on Feb 9, 2011 20:06:12 GMT -5
I wonder what the proposed budget was for this project was? I know he presented the project few years back to WB. I wonder if it is legal issues and money issues that delayed and stopped this project?
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 9, 2011 22:45:17 GMT -5
Yeah, did the Brando estate drain it?
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