matt
New Member
Posts: 2,537
|
Post by matt on Dec 20, 2008 13:36:05 GMT -5
Great interview!  |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 20, 2008 13:51:37 GMT -5
Great interview!
I'm glad that Selutron has decided that other fan cuts actually demonstrate more of a criticism of Thau's cutting to WB than competing/undermining his own cut.
This particularly caught my eye:
That's probably the biggest hurdle, I would think, in addition to getting the greenlight by Warners. How good would anyone feel if Donner felt more insulted than flattered by a new cut that got released of his SII?
If Donner blessed it, I think that of course could only help more fans get behind it... but if he did, then possibly it could be seen as Donner stabbing Thau in the back... so, I could be it as a catch-22 for Donner to get behind a new cut, if Thau isn't also involved or if Thau didn't give his blessing as well...
Yikes. In any case, I'm glad SOMEONE is pushing (or planning to) get WB to do another recut.
|
|
ye5man
New Member
1%
Posts: 7,928
|
Post by ye5man on Dec 21, 2008 7:00:33 GMT -5
The Donner cut seems be disliked more...which is a good thing, unfortunately.
I'm not watching that horrid piece of incompetent shit again for sure
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 21, 2008 12:41:48 GMT -5
Yeah....I hear that a lot. Painful because the great Donner footage is there, but it's just put together so badly in all ways.
It reinforces that idea that it takes a million things to go right on a picture for a movie to be great....and one wrong editor to muck it all up.
*sigh*
If it was too painful for Donner to be there mostly for the re-edit in the first place during the Lester scenes- I'd find it hard to see him wanting to come back to the table to re-open old wounds in another cut.
I don't need to be diplomatic about offending Thau's choices, but I'm suprised that Selutron didn't take that route, if he wanted/wants Donner's blessing.
Still hoping another official version comes out, but I'm wondering now if asking WB for the International Cut to be released on dvd is a more realistic option--- presuming that all the rights are/were cleared for that decades ago.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823 
|
Post by atp on Dec 21, 2008 14:48:25 GMT -5
The bit about the green screen sounds promising!
Could it actually be ... that scene?
|
|
|
|
Post by MAVERICK on Dec 21, 2008 15:12:46 GMT -5
I'm with you ATP.
Let us pray.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimbo on Dec 21, 2008 15:27:20 GMT -5
If he can somehow influence a better release of STM (with all the deleted scenes) in addition to a better cut of S2, then more power to him.
So the movie was digitally restored in 2000. A lot of improvements have occurred in the last 8 years. I'm sure the film could look even better with a new restoration. Add to that the a Blu-ray of the original theatrical version and a 5.1 mix using the original sound mix would be greatly appreciated.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 21, 2008 17:04:24 GMT -5
Agreed!
I wonder if there's anything else fans can do in an organized way to get what we want.
At comicon, Joss Whedon said himself that studios do pay attention to what's on the web....but it's anyone's guess how exactly things get pushed to a point where the person who CAN say 'yes' to something.
In the RDC's case, I know it's been online petitions, grumblings on the web, and fans asking Singer at Comicon (when he mentioned himself that WB reps were in the audience watching as well)- about a Richard Donner cut--- but was it Thau (ironically) who was 'in the gates' who just pushing at the right time?
With the RDC being available in both its single-disc form and part of multiple other collections- it's hard to know how overwhelming the RDC sales actually were--- if it was clear that the sales were spectacular (and we have no way to know), maybe that would prompt another cut.... but- it's a pity there's no PR person from WB on the web (that I know of) that talks to consumers and tries to accomodate what would sell.
Years ago, wasn't there a WB video forum or chat that asked customers what they liked to see made available? Does anyone know if that still happens now and then?
|
|
ye5man
New Member
1%
Posts: 7,928
|
Post by ye5man on Dec 21, 2008 17:26:39 GMT -5
Painful because the great Donner footage is there, but it's just put together so badly in all ways. It reinforces that idea that it takes a million things to go right on a picture for a movie to be great....and one wrong editor to muck it all up. *sigh* Agree with all that 100% Overall, what a big shame Thau: you seem a nice guy, but don't go near an editing machine again. |
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Dec 22, 2008 3:22:24 GMT -5
Thau: you seem a nice guy, but don't go near an editing machine again. Er, that's only his last name. He likes to be called Mr Thau. |
|
|
|
Post by Ollie W on Dec 22, 2008 23:36:05 GMT -5
Awesome interview Gandy! ;D
Boy would I like to have been a fly on the wall during some of those meetings Selutron had.
|
|
matt
New Member
Posts: 2,537
|
Post by matt on Dec 23, 2008 0:56:38 GMT -5
I would like to know more about his Metropolis battle. I also wonder if he plans to rescore the movie?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimbo on Dec 23, 2008 1:27:08 GMT -5
A new score would make or break it.
The Donner Cut would have felt a whole lot more smooth if it had its own unique score.
A real movie has a real score, period.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 23, 2008 3:06:14 GMT -5
It would have been nice for the Donner Cut to have had an original score- but I have a hunch that WB just didn't want to give a penny more on the recut than what was available.
There is/was a recut of the Mel Gibson movie "Payback", where the writer-director who was able to return said that there just wasn't enough money for a 'real' new score, so he got a guy who had never done a movie score before --- presumably--- to do it for what they COULD afford, which apparently wasn't much. But then again, there wasn't much to that score.
So....given that that was a (relatively) low budget film--- if the $ for a score was beyond what WB wanted to pay THEN, then I have a bad feeling that WB wouldn't pay ten cents for a new score for a 2nd recut of SII either....(but I hope of course I'm wrong about that)
If, in the (hopeful) event a recut happens, if there's no new score-, then I'd be fine with the Ken Thorne music restored- so long as music editing is smooth enough that it fits to a point that one doesn't notice it. I agree that the jarring music edit HELPED kill the RDC---
But, sadly, it's amazing (in a horrifying way) that it's not the ONLY production crime done to the Donner footage in the RDC.... *sigh*
|
|
ye5man
New Member
1%
Posts: 7,928
|
Post by ye5man on Dec 23, 2008 4:22:17 GMT -5
You guys are dead on about the score. One of the reasons I won't watch it again: the score was getting too saturated, especially as they used it in some of the deleted SIV stuff.
|
|
Gandy
New Member
Admiral
Owner & Creator of Superman Cinema
Posts: 17,343
|
Post by Gandy on Dec 23, 2008 18:59:09 GMT -5
I watch it for the Donner scenes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ollie W on Dec 23, 2008 21:55:26 GMT -5
I agree. My favorite new Lois and Clark scene is the 'go get the pizza' scene. It pisses over anything Lester directed involving the two leads. Visually it looks stunning and of course the chemistry between Reeve and Kidder is fun and amusing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Super Sebastian on Dec 24, 2008 8:01:31 GMT -5
Someone know the mail of Selutron? i need to contact him.
|
|
EvilSupes
New Member
LOOK! Superman's drunk!
Posts: 3,037
|
Post by EvilSupes on Dec 24, 2008 13:30:24 GMT -5
I would like to know how he managed to pull off some of those scenes at the white house for SII. I know most of it was probably done in after effects, but the sheer amount of time spent tracing round Zod and co to do that must have taken a damn long time! I can probably do it myself, but no way would I spend that long doing it... I just don't have the patience. CAM would you agree it takes some time to do this?
I wouldn't also mind him giving other editors some tips and maybe some tutorials on how he done some of the effects he achieved. It certainly would be great to learn to do some of the same work for example on a movie that really does deserve a makeover like Superman IV.
|
|
matt
New Member
Posts: 2,537
|
Post by matt on Dec 24, 2008 15:12:55 GMT -5
I hope he uses, general care to step outside line. I think that line plays better in the movie. I thought freedom of the press line didn't have the same impact. I also thought it was badly dubbed.
|
|
Gandy
New Member
Admiral
Owner & Creator of Superman Cinema
Posts: 17,343
|
Post by Gandy on Dec 24, 2008 17:10:03 GMT -5
I agree. My favorite new Lois and Clark scene is the 'go get the pizza' scene. It pisses over anything Lester directed involving the two leads. Visually it looks stunning and of course the chemistry between Reeve and Kidder is fun and amusing. I love the camera movements. As much as I love Lester, he just used a medium sized lens and plonked the camera in the middle. Fast set-ups, way too fast!!! Sometimes it didn't work. |
|
|
|
Post by joey m on Dec 24, 2008 17:24:50 GMT -5
A lot of stuff really was out of Thau's control, especially the decision to minimize the Lester (and Ken Thorne) as much as possible, no matter how it hurt the movie. I wonder if it'd be best to just keep the theatrical cut as a base, since it's actually, like, finished but just reinstate Brando and Hackman where possible, ditch the slapstick and the cellophane "S" and...somehow...use Donner's Lois and Clark material in the final 10 minutes, without turning back the earth. Whatever ending Selutron may have come up with, that would be the marketing hook ("alternate ending! For the first time in 30 years, see Superman 2 without being totally annoyed at the end!"). I wish he's spill on his idea for the ending since I think it should be floated out there ahead of time.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 26, 2008 4:55:41 GMT -5
I wouldn't be at all suprised if it was Adobe Aftereffects. It's essentially tracing (just about) the foreground that you want out of each and every frame, but Adobe Aftereffects makes it easier...although, yes, I've noticed that a two-three second scene can take possibly 4-5 hours to do (if not more). I really love some of his edit choices and sfx work he's put on the web- others I think don't work as well (the Honeymoon haven scene & the prologue 'kid' scene in particular), but I gave a big thumbs up for all the effort put into the rotoscoping. The process can be REALLLY frustrating, and definitely a time-killer.  I can't imagine what kind of 'new' ending that would blow me away, but I like enough of what I've seen from Selutron's clips, that I'd be in support of it, if it's the only alternative we can get from WB for a new SII. |
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Dec 26, 2008 5:53:05 GMT -5
A lot of stuff really was out of Thau's control, . I think so too. Mr Thau gets a rough time, but he was working with a miniscule budget -- probably the same amount of money as a 30-second TV commercial -- and time pressures. Not to mention having his hand forced by Donner and Mankiewicz and Lester. It's obvious that his project wasn't given the same amount of respect and attention that the "modern" and "trendy" so-called blockbuster called SR was given. Imagine if the Donner Cut had been given the budget that SR had received, and if SR had been given the budget that the Donner Cut had received. BOTH films would have probably turned out better. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 26, 2008 12:09:06 GMT -5
There are SO many sins in how the RDC was cut... ...including UNNECESSARY changes that made the viewing experience so much worse - it's hard to believe that the time and money (and Donner pressure) caused it to look so disastrous overall. Thankfully, enough scenes are intact to make fan cuts possible, though.  |
|
