Keith
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Post by Keith on Jan 4, 2009 12:21:03 GMT -5
That's an awesome clip. For a short time, I entertained the idea of making the entire movie like that. It would probably destroy my brain and any respect for the movie if I did. Thats why you should do a movie you don't have any respect for now, something like Batman & Robin or something like that lmao. |
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Post by Jimbo on Jan 4, 2009 16:20:34 GMT -5
Thats why you should do a movie you don't have any respect for now, something like Batman & Robin or something like that lmao. Superman IV, remember? ;D |
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Post by Matt in the Hat on Jan 4, 2009 20:48:22 GMT -5
Most people have no memory of Superman 4...
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Jan 4, 2009 20:59:48 GMT -5
LOL!
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Jan 4, 2009 21:52:57 GMT -5
Thats why you should do a movie you don't have any respect for now, something like Batman & Robin or something like that lmao. Superman IV, remember? ;D LOL. I meant a (non)fan-cut Thau style of Batman & Robin. Who knows.. it might a make a "bad" movie good instead of making what should of been a "good" movie... well.. bad. |
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jan 5, 2009 11:52:03 GMT -5
Yeah but you can't polish a turd. ;D  |
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Jan 5, 2009 16:29:40 GMT -5
True, But I was thinking more along the lines of making the turd a more enjoyable turd. lol
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jan 5, 2009 18:45:43 GMT -5
allow for a Selutron re-edit. Not a Selutron re-edit IMO. He's an ideas man. He wanted Thau to take a more 'creative approach' to the material and he's shown us what can be achieved with that type of mindset. His re-cap and release of the Villains is pure genius but I think many of his clips are just a bit too clever and it'd be a shame if he got too carried away. I'd certainly want Selutron very much involved if a re-edit were to take place, but there's only one man I'd want to edit SII and that's Stuart Baird, who had a strong hand in making STM a great movie. i have been thinking about this post - and i would support some of what you say but with my own amendment. in one of the sleutron clips- he took the national gaurd soliders from lester's east huston sequence and superimposed them against the background of the washinton monument ( where the script had had zod starting his campaign against the white house ). now this is a good IDEA - except if it is actually set in washinton- the nation's capitol- then there needs to be a LOT more soldiers !!!! its a very sound idea- but new footage would have to be shot- with extras in vintage uniforms - against the monument park - and then add zod and so forth . the idea is good- but using a lester east huston shot -which takes palce in a small podunk town - looks off against the HUGE background of the monument park. its just a couple soldiers here and there- this is the capitol? i appluad sleutron for his enginuity and his craftsmanship - these are very good ideas- but for it to work ( and NOT be another gaffe-laden quickie ) the scale and scope needs to be considered. |
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KOEAGO
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Post by KOEAGO on Jan 6, 2009 3:06:10 GMT -5
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jan 6, 2009 3:06:50 GMT -5
haha!! ;D
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 6, 2009 17:44:54 GMT -5
First, about Baird...
I totally agree on using Stuart Baird....but (1) I rarely see him listed as an editor anymore after he started directing features... even if he consults or does 'touchups' on various features, I think he'd have to be passionate enough about the material to do this (basically) for free...
(*Femember, Donner wasn't paid a penny (which he's not thrilled about, can't blame him) for his contributions to the RDC- doubtful they'd pay top dollar for Stuart Baird for a re-release)
.... and....
(2)- the bigger issue: is there enough footage available for Baird to work the same magic as what he'd done in STM?
The funny thing is that Donner was rumored to have done take after take until everything was perfect in his eyes--- so the idea that there's barely enough to scrape things together seems extremely odd, especially if most of the footage survived. (Which is why Thau's extreme over-cutting is even more offensive- we may never get to see the rest of the Donner footage!)
If there is, then it's hoped that SOMEONE (I don't care who) restores it and integrates it back into SII..... if it doesn't exist/never shot... then...
How do people feel about Selutron compositing things to HELP sell the scale and the ideas, even if not able to be 100% gaffe-free?
Paying extras, renting costumes, etc. for more soldiers in sequences against a green screen for compositing would SEEM like it's not that expensive, but who knows if WB made an agreement with SAG that requires ALL productions to pay union miniums for even simple shots like that? Would be far too expensive for a new cut?
Personally, whatever can be gotten is an improvement over what exists, imo. Without an unlimited budget, I sense we're never going to get the SII we want- but if we have to dream realistically, personally, I'd love to see what we could get with an extended Donner cut (with smoother editing than what Thau did), and maybe a 'special features' section of what wasn't able to be shot, using music and storyboards from the Donner era to cover what would have been done, but wasn't shot- maybe even (if there were any available) audio from cast readings of the script, if it exists.
Anyhow, I just want SOMETHING new for SII for WB- NOT a new collectible cover ((or other disposable superficial crap like new postcards or a booklet like the awful BB 'gift set edition had))
New Donner footage. Or.....if we REALLY can't get that- Selutron composites. *sigh*
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jan 11, 2009 18:32:26 GMT -5
First, about Baird... I totally agree on using Stuart Baird....but (1) I rarely see him listed as an editor anymore after he started directing features... even if he consults or does 'touchups' on various features, I think he'd have to be passionate enough about the material to do this (basically) for free... (*Femember, Donner wasn't paid a penny (which he's not thrilled about, can't blame him) for his contributions to the RDC- doubtful they'd pay top dollar for Stuart Baird for a re-release) .... and.... (2)- the bigger issue: is there enough footage available for Baird to work the same magic as what he'd done in STM? The funny thing is that Donner was rumored to have done take after take until everything was perfect in his eyes--- so the idea that there's barely enough to scrape things together seems extremely odd, especially if most of the footage survived. (Which is why Thau's extreme over-cutting is even more offensive- we may never get to see the rest of the Donner footage!) If there is, then it's hoped that SOMEONE (I don't care who) restores it and integrates it back into SII..... if it doesn't exist/never shot... then... How do people feel about Selutron compositing things to HELP sell the scale and the ideas, even if not able to be 100% gaffe-free? Paying extras, renting costumes, etc. for more soldiers in sequences against a green screen for compositing would SEEM like it's not that expensive, but who knows if WB made an agreement with SAG that requires ALL productions to pay union miniums for even simple shots like that? Would be far too expensive for a new cut? Personally, whatever can be gotten is an improvement over what exists, imo. Without an unlimited budget, I sense we're never going to get the SII we want- but if we have to dream realistically, personally, I'd love to see what we could get with an extended Donner cut (with smoother editing than what Thau did), and maybe a 'special features' section of what wasn't able to be shot, using music and storyboards from the Donner era to cover what would have been done, but wasn't shot- maybe even (if there were any available) audio from cast readings of the script, if it exists. Anyhow, I just want SOMETHING new for SII for WB- NOT a new collectible cover ((or other disposable superficial crap like new postcards or a booklet like the awful BB 'gift set edition had)) New Donner footage. Or.....if we REALLY can't get that- Selutron composites. *sigh* as it stands WB has ONE franchise : " batman " . and it is kicking all kinds of fanboy/critical acclaim and box office $$ ass. so- will they continue to mine DC and older superhero tv/movie stuff- ?? sure. will it manage to NOT be a reaming ? i dunno. i honestly feel that WB simply does NOT understand superheroes AT ALL. seriously- why did they ever buy DC comics? we got , what - STM , SII , batman 89 and nolan-verse ... COMPLETELY by accident. we got " SIII " "SIV" "BF" B+R" "lois and clark " " way damn too much smallville " .. on purpose. the poltics of hollywood is truly ..political ..its about expediance. whatever way the wind blows. do they " get it "... ? uh-uh. find a bandwagon and rape it. now- cyncism aside , seeing what eventually became a 5-disc balde runner treatment ( for ONE movie ) with 4 OFFICIAL versions AND a workprint that had a fanboy doing commentary... heck anything is possible- but history has shown that WB needs outsiders to coach them towards what fans want. |
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jan 11, 2009 18:56:15 GMT -5
Sometimes I don't actually think it's Warner that is the problem in getting the cuts we want. If the directors or people involved with the movies don't agree then nothing happens. I don't think Donner would appreciate another cut of S2, if anything he probably would be offended(atleast in the sense with that it wasn't long ago *his* cut of S2 was released), which is why I can see now what Selutron is saying. Like he said a better approach is STM. I like the idea of upgrading the movies every so often - it's been what 9 years since the last upgrade for STM? S2 has had too much of a recent upgrade in the sense of a new cut for it to make sense to throw another out. As much as I'd like another try at S2, it aint gonna happen soon! The nearest we'll probably get is S2 theatrical in blu-ray...
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Post by joey m on Jan 11, 2009 19:21:44 GMT -5
Well, there's two Sam Peckinpah movies that have recently been released in altered versions done by Peckinpah "scholars", and not anyone involved in the movie, so there is some precedent (Pat Garret and Billy the Kid and Major Dundee, and Garrett was a WB disc). The problem is fans and Selutron are proposing something overly complicated for a very limited audience, and these companies are going the other way (layoffs and corner cutting and neglecting any movie that old). But if they were pitched something cheap and practical, we could actually see it happen. Which is why I'd love to see the fans get behind ONE realistic thing that could be done for a blu-ray of the theatrical version, like for an "alternate version" on disc 2. It's got to be something that can be explained in one sentence and costs almost nothing in money and time. Instead we just have this cacophony about what should be done (which I'm just adding to, I know) and it makes them not want to bother.
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Gandy
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Post by Gandy on Jan 12, 2009 6:19:27 GMT -5
Stuart Baird doesn't come cheap.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jan 12, 2009 11:39:58 GMT -5
Wow, I just noticed I must really like the word 'sense'. ;D
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jan 12, 2009 13:59:21 GMT -5
The problem is fans and Selutron are proposing something overly complicated for a very limited audience, and these companies are going the other way (layoffs and corner cutting and neglecting any movie that old). But if they were pitched something cheap and practical, we could actually see it happen. Which is why I'd love to see the fans get behind ONE realistic thing that could be done for a blu-ray of the theatrical version, like for an "alternate version" on disc 2. It's got to be something that can be explained in one sentence and costs almost nothing in money and time. Instead we just have this cacophony about what should be done (which I'm just adding to, I know) and it makes them not want to bother. you make sense , and it is more realistic to ask for a full restoration of the theatrical cut , with an option to go for an alternate scene/sequences and seeming back to the film-proper. in the " me myself an irene " dvd had a neat feature- you could watch the theatrical cut - and then see the deleted scenes OR you could hit " enter " when you see an icon on the screen that would cue up a deleted scene in sequence. you could watch some ( deleted ) scenes or skip them. SII could do that- using the frame of SII tehatrical - and you could choose to navigate the scenes you want . then it would always be a " custom " cut . - but i still think its possible for a revision of SII to be produced. ridley scott cut blade runner 3 times- plus a workprint . so a thetrical , RDC and a combo cut could happen. heck - the workprints being released would be good enough for most of us. ilya only wanted payed, lester hasn't cared for 30 years and onner got the best possible fascimlie using only his footage . |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jan 12, 2009 14:08:37 GMT -5
actually- if there is more footage , different line-readings , different angles , plus storyboards .. more than just the macguyver/duct tape version ( officially called the RDC) showed us we could see some interesting things -
- at this point i think we can see that NO rerelease will ease the feud between donner vs lester fans and any revision will get ripped up for what it used or omitted -
so- wouldnt a more expediant thing be to do a new documentary , get lya and mank , and donner ( if he feels like it ) and just play a scene , then have the particulars comment on why it was different - who shot what - who wrote what , and for scenes that werent filmed show the storyboards and script with comments from the writer etc.
basically - make the RDC less of an attempt at a film- but more of an elaborate " deleted scenes " section so you can see the material ( hopefully even MORE material ) and not get annoyed at the clunkiness of it . just look at it from a scholarly approach.
it wouldnt have to be as big as the " you will believe " doc- they dont need EVERYbody - but mank and ilya and pierre would have a lot of helpful info to offer.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 12, 2009 14:50:43 GMT -5
Excellent points!
Something quick, cheap, and profitable almost always is attractive to ANY company, unless politics are involved.
* I would love an official IRC dvd, but I agree that there's probably no new cut that won't open up old wounds with either Donner or Lester, and kill that goose right away.
However, a new documentary with extra alternate Brando takes/Reeve takes/(Or Stamp takes for that matter)- more deleted scenes/extended Donner scenes (even extended Lester scenes) and storyboards of the Metropolis battle that shoulda been?
YES!!!!
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jan 12, 2009 15:58:04 GMT -5
the 2001 dvd docs had some neat stuff- some concept footage and rehearsal stuff- one of which was a " psychodelic " repowering superman scene for SII . its stuff like that that interests me more than anything. seen these movies a zillion times , and depending on my mood i may like a bit here or imagine a " perfect cut " without that bit. so to see the raw footage , more screen tests, more rehearsals , storyboards- that to me is fascinating- but then i tend to over-analyse so...  |
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Post by jor-el76 on Feb 4, 2009 5:31:41 GMT -5
Hey Friends! i 've just read a news about Tron 2, they have sent Mr Bridges in Canda to take face scan of him to have a young version of him read here: i09's tipster explains: A source reveals to io9 that Jeff Bridges has been sent up to Canada to be digitized. A plaster cast has been created of Bridges. "They will then take the 3D model and make him younger and then slap it on a body double in post. As this is only one cog in the machine, I can't give a whole lot of detail. Canada scans actors and props to be used for various projects. These are very high resolution scans that pick up every wrinkle, face lift, and scar on the actor's body." if warner will spend a few more money for another donner's cut in near future, i hope so! this idea can be used for shot new materials about the villains! Warner send Stamp & Co. in Canada and assure you scans of their faces for future version of superman II!!! |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Feb 6, 2009 0:50:31 GMT -5
well.... if they DO...it'll be only IF the next superman film does well $$$$$$ . they tried a hurry up recut of SII in conjuction with a donner-esque new flick and a deluge of vintage superman dvds and they were " disappointed "...  so the next supes has to knock it out of the park ...even for f*ktards , so WB will want to re-issue old superman stuff. |
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HOSNI
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Post by HOSNI on Feb 21, 2009 20:42:25 GMT -5
Do you think we can get a copy of the complete cut he assembled for Warners? Probably no harm in releasing it now given they decided to park the discussions.
If anything it'll keep up the talk.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Feb 22, 2009 7:45:50 GMT -5
I don't think he will release it without WB blessing since they've seen bits and pieces of the footage. So, if he released it for people to download he would be in trouble for copyright issues as WB would know it was hit cut and they know who he is etc...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 22, 2009 20:29:58 GMT -5
I don't think he will release it without WB blessing since they've seen bits and pieces of the footage. So, if he released it for people to download he would be in trouble for copyright issues as WB would know it was hit cut and they know who he is etc... Agreed... I also wonder if WB simply took a look just so that they could 'control' any possible release. At SDCC, there was a panel for the Cartoon Network, where one of the panelists who worked for CN flatly stated that sometimes options are purchased simply so that the party in charge can make sure something DOESN'T come out, rather than let it float out there. The sad/odd thing is that if Donner himself doesn't have enough clout to have fx done properly for his own cut (he didn't even get paid, from what I understand)--- I'd be greatly suprised if anyone does, at this point. And...again, since the Donner cut was available in the Ultimate Box Collection, the $$$ gained by the standalone dvd seems more than a little distorted. Who would feel a need to buy the standalone if they got the Box Collection? (Besides ubergeeks that is) |
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