atp
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Post by atp on Nov 6, 2009 15:29:59 GMT -5
And I can't blame Thau too much either on the cutting of stuff. that's only his last name. He likes to be called Mr. Thau. |
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Post by MAVERICK on Nov 6, 2009 15:45:50 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D
I'm sorry fellas, I'm still a fan of ATP's broken record. ;D
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Post by Matt in the Hat on Nov 6, 2009 22:20:20 GMT -5
Indeed. A man whose creative genius demands only the best of his computer generated minions MUST be addressed properly.
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Post by Ollie W on Nov 7, 2009 0:54:37 GMT -5
And as for the people who were involved and what happened in the end, I could put judgment on Ilya, Spengler, Lester or Donner, but in the end what's really the point? We got what we got because as Ilya says: "It's everybody's fault and no ones fault." Even though he's one of the guy's that fired a director halfway through a movie, I'd still buy Ilya a pint if he were ever in the midwest. And even if Donner mouthed off a bit and got himself in that situation, I'd still wouldn't mind hanging out with him too. These days I tend to blame WB more then anyone. I think Donner left the Salkind's with no choice but to fire him. Perhaps he felt WB would've fought for him, who knows. And I can't blame Thau too much either on the cutting of stuff. He did well with what he had, I don't think you can say that Thau did the best with what he had. How come Selutron was able to create a far better version of the release of the villains with limited material? Honestly I think he has a lot to answer for and I wish someone had grilled him on some of the ridiculous decisions he made. For example I love that he used Williams unused cue for the Villains release but why on earth did he sign off on this scene. Different planets in every shot, XK10?, cheap looking background. Don't get me wrong I still love the Donner cut over the Lester cut but I certainly think Thau could've done a better job. |
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Post by MAVERICK on Nov 7, 2009 0:59:43 GMT -5
Agreed Ollie. Thau cocked it up royally.
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atp
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Post by atp on Nov 7, 2009 3:09:10 GMT -5
I was disappointed in the Donner Cut, but we should remember how much time pressure Mr. Thau had. How long was he given to create the Donner Cut in time for the box set release deadline? A few months?
All the fan cutters and, Selutron too, have the luxury of years to make their versions.
They have that luxury. They have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.
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Post by Matt in the Hat on Nov 8, 2009 11:18:52 GMT -5
Yeah, i mean budget and time are the main things in doing something like this.
Well let me throw this out: If this was the cut to include everything they could of what Donner made, why not include backgrounds that were made around then?
I don't mind (well, kind of) if it means more stuff to look at. I mean sure it doesn't match up physically to a specific point of where the rocket hit them, but it does throw you off of how quickly they should get there. Not an excuse nor does it make sense, I know, just playing a little devils advocate on that point.
Oh, and I kinda refuse Selutron stuff period. I find it hard to accept that he should be hailed as the savior of the world when he hasnt done more than post a couple of clips on youtube while completely rewriting those small parts just for a visual cue.
Besides, Thau has the almighty power of creation of realistic looking villains in an effort to take command of the entire world. It's kinda hard to NOT be impressed by such brilliance.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 8, 2009 11:33:51 GMT -5
Budget & time contraints can't be blamed totally on the failure. The impression I got was "cut as much Lester out as possible", which hurt the film a lot.
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Post by MAVERICK on Nov 8, 2009 12:56:17 GMT -5
Agreed Russ. And that was more Donner's fault than Thau.
You get the impression that Thau was using more Lester stuff than what we got until Donner & Mank came in & turned it into revenge of the scorned buddies.
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Gandy
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Post by Gandy on Nov 8, 2009 13:04:26 GMT -5
Tom Mankiewicz is more forgiving than Dick, well, that's the impression I got. Infact, Tom thought that Pierre Spengler knew more about making a film than Ilya, but Dick thought otherwise.
The Donner Cut was compromised because they didn't do what was best for the project, namely doing it as a round-table discussion and inter-cutting it with the footage -- would've saved a lot of criticism. Sure, listen to the fans, but then seek the best possible way of representing that material on disc.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 8, 2009 13:55:40 GMT -5
That's it in a nutsheck, right there.
At least that's the impression I got watching the film.
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Post by Matt in the Hat on Nov 8, 2009 16:29:15 GMT -5
Tom Mankiewicz is more forgiving than Dick, well, that's the impression I got. Infact, Tom thought that Pierre Spengler knew more about making a film than Ilya, but Dick thought otherwise. The Donner Cut was compromised because they didn't do what was best for the project, namely doing it as a round-table discussion and inter-cutting it with the footage -- would've saved a lot of criticism. Sure, listen to the fans, but then seek the best possible way of representing that material on disc. ^This. Works for me. |
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Kirok
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Post by Kirok on Nov 9, 2009 3:28:55 GMT -5
Agreed Russ. And that was more Donner's fault than Thau. You get the impression that Thau was using more Lester stuff than what we got until Donner & Mank came in & turned it into revenge of the scorned buddies. That's more or less what happened. Thau said he was pleased with the Lester ending of kiss/diner/flag, but Donner coming on board the project changed all that. Mank even moreso with his ridiculous notion that "Lois Lane can never kiss Clark Kent."  |
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Post by snoopkryptodog on Nov 9, 2009 21:23:06 GMT -5
It's too bad folks decided to put the screws to Lester. While I despise some of his choices, his elements are needed to complete the film. I'm really curious about Jimbo's ABC cut. I have a feeling that the best version of SII lies there - with some minor trims to the Donner footage, and some Lester humour cut back, but not entire scenes.
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