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Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 14, 2011 21:35:31 GMT -5
We realized something vitally important about SR today.
They claim this movie cost over 200 million dollars to make, thereby "explaining" why it's considered a "failure". But WHERE is that money? It ain't on the screen, that's for god damn sure. That looks, at best, like a 100 million dollar flick. At best.
Which isn't to say it looks cheap. It doesn't. The effects hold up great. The sets look great. The costumes look great.
But there isn't enough of it. We get two and a half action sequences in a two and a half hour movie. The rest of the time it's people talking, mostly about things that happened BEFORE the movie even started. That's very bad. That's a very, very bad thing.
And then, almost immediately after, we watched Iron Man 2, a movie with a stated 200 million dollar budget, and EVERY SINGLE PENNY of that budget is on that screen. You know exactly where it was spent. It's all there. Not even close to the case with Superman Returns.
We were hosed.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 14, 2011 22:05:53 GMT -5
Xmen 3 is listed as 210 million, and I feel the same way.
I can only imagine that- assuming costs are legitimate- much of these extra dollars are put into 'special effects cleanup' or overtime for fx houses that are added on, to meet a summer release date.
Or, things are extremely mismanaged on these summer blockbusters. (Who knows? I do know that it's funny how often so many storyboards and sequences that 'were' going to happen pop up that maybe should have been deleted in the script stage first, before diving into producing them halfway at times....)
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Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 14, 2011 22:17:44 GMT -5
Far more of X-Men 3's alleged budget is on the screen than Superman Returns'. I find that 210 million price tag for X3 tough to swallow, too.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 14, 2011 22:24:09 GMT -5
Well.... Hollywood accounting is known for being pretty clever. Only the accountants probably know 'for sure' what things REALLY cost- maybe. But I have a hunch that what's stated and what's real is pretty different.
On the flip side.... one thing we DO know for sure- there's got to be SOME strong enough money reason to justify Hollywood shooting everywhere but in their home town.... (Maybe they're not kidding about the costs of Hollywood unions for production? Or is it the tax incentives? Who knows....)
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Post by Jimbo on Mar 14, 2011 22:30:14 GMT -5
And wasn't SR shot in Australia in order to save money?  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 15, 2011 2:41:29 GMT -5
Good point Jimbo!
If "Batman Begins" & "Dark Knight" could be shot in Chicago, it's a pity that "Superman Returns" couldn't have been shot in New York.
Wonder if Snyder's film will be shot anywhere outside of the green screen room, though?.... hurm....
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Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 15, 2011 7:36:28 GMT -5
It won't be. None of his other movies have been.
And this isn't just his fault. I HATE the superhero movie trend of shooting everything on a soundstage. The Spider-Man movies look and work their best when they're at recognizable outdoor NYC locations. Other times, you can practically see the lighting rigs hanging from the ceiling. I fucking HATE it.
A movie like Daredevil should have been shot entirely on location, with natural lighting. I'm tired of every single director who gets offered a superhero movie being like, "I need to create a world for this character". BULLSHIT! You need to make the audience buy that the character exists in THIS world.
All of this, ALL of it, is Batman 89's fault. Yes, Anton Furst's Gotham City sets were spectacular (still are), but ever since then, the chances of getting an STM style, location shot, naturally lit superhero movie are pretty much nil.
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atp
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Post by atp on Mar 15, 2011 15:20:22 GMT -5
Having the dream cast sometimes doesn't mean shit.
Remember with SR, we all wanted Spacey to play Luthor. We got it -- and he was crap.
We were also thrilled when Langella was cast as Perry White -- and he turned out crap too.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 15, 2011 16:01:30 GMT -5
That bird in Terminator 3 (though a bit tall) night have been a good choice (looks wise)
I don't know who this Jessica bird is (I've heard the name) so good I have no pre-conceptions
ATP, I agree on Spacey, he was the biggest let-down of the film.
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atp
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Post by atp on Mar 15, 2011 16:05:01 GMT -5
ATP, I agree on Spacey, he was the biggest let-down of the film. Which was incredibly surprising, because fans had been dreaming of him playing Luthor for years. It seemed too good to be true when he was cast. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 15, 2011 16:45:27 GMT -5
And it wasn't just the shit material he had to work with either. It was him
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Post by stargazer01 on Mar 15, 2011 16:47:13 GMT -5
ATP, Please, can you at least change your tune a little bit? I mean, every time you dislike something you always say it's 'Crap.' At least explain WHY it's crap to you. It got old long ago. I also read that they aren't screening SUCKER PUNCH until 10PM the day before it comes out. WB is trying to prevent reviews as much as they can. Can that film be that bad? Will they still keep Snyder in this project? Interesting. Ugh. Enough with the Routh shit, please. Damnit, if we're going to bitch about movies in which a man wears his underwear outside of his pants, let's at least bitch about the yet-to-be-made one here. Jesus. Man, I agree. We're here because we love the character first. Tired of this Routh whining. Honestly, I haven't seen a lot of 'Routh whinning' so far (at least not compared to other places..). I don't even post on this thread much. Besides, Cavill Can't escape the comparisons, just like Brandon didn't escape them with Reeve and Welling. It is what it is. Some of you may be very happy with this new movie, etc; but some of us are Not. So yeah, this is only the beginning I'm sure. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Mar 15, 2011 17:24:38 GMT -5
What was Luthor and Kitty's relationship supposed to be anyway?
They certainly didn't have any chemistry.
AT ALL.
They came off more as brother and sister types than lovers.
Hackman and Perrine didn't share any kind of on-screen kiss or displays of affection, but they had chemistry.
I didn't think Spacey was as bad as some of you guys, but the performance definitely came off as silly and possibly effeminate. Such as when Kitty tries to slap him and he says, "*I* did."
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Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 15, 2011 18:38:35 GMT -5
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 15, 2011 18:53:33 GMT -5
What was Luthor and Kitty's relationship supposed to be anyway? Yet another rip-off of STM (yeah, yeah Val...) |
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Post by EnriqueH on Mar 15, 2011 19:13:48 GMT -5
I'm watching the helicopter sequence as I am typing this and I can now say, watching STM and thinking about SR, well...SR sucked.
Ah, here's the part where Superman is starting his first night out...excuse me, I have better things to do than think about other Superman movies.
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Post by ChrisM on Mar 18, 2011 12:20:08 GMT -5
I'm watching the helicopter sequence as I am typing this and I can now say, watching STM and thinking about SR, well...SR sucked. Ah, here's the part where Superman is starting his first night out...excuse me, I have better things to do than think about other Superman movies. Aside from people cheering like they're at a sporting event, the helicopter rescue is unbeatable, incredibly uplifting, and timeless; it's almost unfair to knock something because it doesn't have the same impact. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 18, 2011 12:35:05 GMT -5
I think it's Reeve's smile that really sells it. Can't help smiling myself!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 18, 2011 17:10:47 GMT -5
I had a friend who'd said years ago that he wished that it was more like a 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' moment- where the discovery of Superman, would be with a moment of silence and awe and fears, not cheers. At the time, I agreed- but over time, I realize that that reaction would have been taking the material a touch too seriously--- and that Donner perhaps struck just the right balance in all departments for that 'first appearance'. Cut to the rebooted pilot of "V", where an alien mothership towers over a giant city and tells them that they're going to solve all their problems, and it gets nothing but cheers from strangers on the ground, who have no reason to trust them. In that case, the show was supposed to be deadly serious. In that situation, I turned off the show and couldn't buy it even as science fiction anymore. Go figure.  |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 18, 2011 17:14:50 GMT -5
Not to derail the thread, but V got better. A shame it isn't gonna continue...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 5:24:21 GMT -5
I think it's Reeve's smile that really sells it. Can't help smiling myself! absolutely. Amazing that after all these years that scene excites me like no other |
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Mar 27, 2011 22:42:01 GMT -5
Did no one else know about this? www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/VoicesFromKrypton/news/?a=33821&t=SUPERMAN_EXCLUSIVE_Bryan_Singer_Looks_Back_at_Superman_ReturnsWith special attention to this: QUESTION: Truthfully, as much as I love Superman: The Movie, it felt like maybe you were paying too much of an homage to it and Richard Donner.
BRYAN SINGER: Oh, absolutely. What’s interesting is that people know I’m a big Trekkie, and they’re always saying, “Why don’t you do a Star Trek?” and I say, “You know, I think I’m TOO big a fan of Star Trek. You’d feel like you were watching Wrath of Khan again."[...] His comments about making the film for a "Devil Wears Prada" audience (yes, really) explain a lot too. Seriously guys, check out the whole article. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2011 23:42:27 GMT -5
Huh.
Pretty fascinating to read that all, to be honest. I'm not sure what else to say.
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atp
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Post by atp on Mar 28, 2011 12:02:46 GMT -5
Sounds like bullshit. If it was really a homage to STM, it would have been good, just like STM. And if it was a homage to Donner, it would have been good, just like Donner's film. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Mar 28, 2011 12:24:48 GMT -5
and it might have made some decent money
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