Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 14, 2012 12:45:34 GMT -5
There's a difference between being downbeat and not being an emotionally accessible or sympathetic character. Was Bixby so downbeat to the point that he didn't register as a good character? No.
Thats why I said Bixby had a humanity in his performance. Bana really didn't. Bill Bixby's Doctor Banner was a tragic figure but he also came of as a MAN. There was feeling there whether its despair or anger or sadness. Bana came off as a BLANK. His Bruce Banner began as a person lacking emotions. he was shut off. But that was intentionally done. It just didn't work. I blame most of that on his director though because Bana has turned in performances with more depth.
The problem is the whole film is peppered with so much of that same blandness when there should be a torrent of passionate emotions under the surface. Thats the very NATURE of the Hulk creature. RAW--BASE--emotions.
Superman should have some feelings of want and desire. There IS a certain life he's never going to be able to have. Singer just kept everything too downbeat.
The Hulk story should be tragic but it should also have some soul. Ang Lee kept the tragedy but it had no soul. Its something the X-men films pulled off better than The Hulk. There's the same element of being an outsider and being hated or being a monster and being cursed.
With the Xavier/Magneto struggle and the theme of bigotry at the center of those films they had a soul.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Feb 14, 2012 14:16:43 GMT -5
I agree about the soul. I don't know if it was the writing or directing that let the film down. I love the Bixby series. I am not bored once during any episode. Ferringo impresses the heck out of me with his sheer size; far better than cgi
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 14, 2012 15:00:55 GMT -5
Probably both but I'd blame most of it on Ang Lee. He can make some beautiful films but when it came to Hulk he seemed to be more interested in something mythic than something passionate. His film plays like Greek tragedy but at the center of all of it you have to care about Bruce Banner first and foremost. Thats why 30 years later the Bixby series is still the best most beloved live action Hulk production ever.
Ken Johnson basically took the best parts of The Fugitive, Frankenstein, and Jekyll and Hyde and rolled them all into one weekly tv series.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Feb 14, 2012 16:32:12 GMT -5
and Les Misérables
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Feb 18, 2012 9:37:40 GMT -5
I hated Bana in the role, but I really do like Ang Lee's HULK. I enjoyed the idea behind the editing style, I can see how they tried to emulate comic panels. But I think in some cases they really got carried away with it.
When it didn't work : Shots of 5 angles of people doing the same thing, Opening a door. Egh. Comics are not like that.
When it worked : Panels showing different action at different locations. The base escape used this effectively. My favorite is the 3 panels that connect to showing the vast desert and Hulk jumps through each panel. Obviously the whole movie couldn't have been edited that way, but it was cool for a one off.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 18, 2012 11:46:27 GMT -5
Ang Lee's Hulk is SO weird in style---
What's odd is that "Crouching Tiger" starts off a little slow, but later on totally has that nice blend of drama and fun action that you'd want in a comic book film--- at the time, I thought he'd be perfect for a Hulk film, but the guy who did the terrible "Clash of the Titans" I thought had a much much better mix in the second Hulk film.
It's not quite too suprising to read that Ang said that he never read comic books prior to, and didn't get them. But odd that I felt he kind of already HAD a 'comic book' film in "Tiger" of sorts...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 24, 2012 12:55:27 GMT -5
Not sure where to place the info- but as I don't see a Routh thread handy... Superman Returns star Brandon Routh is set to go gay as actor Michael Urie's boyfriend in a new U.S. TV pilot.
Partners will star Urie as a former alcoholic model pursuing a new career as a nurse - and Routh will play his lover.
It won't be Routh's first time working with show creators Max Mutchnick and David Kohan - he made a guest appearance on their hit sitcom Will & Grace in 2004.
The comedy is due to air later this year, according to blogger Perez Hilton. »
Interesting how Routh is inadverdently taking on a couple of parallel Reeve choices. Reeve took on "Deathtrap" as a gay character after his first Superman film as well... but seeing as Routh seems unlikely to be called back to WB as Supes, wonder if he'll ever consider a different superhero to play instead on the bigscreen (Captain Marvel?)  |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Feb 24, 2012 13:08:16 GMT -5
Routh would be a great Captain Marvel!
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 24, 2012 14:35:37 GMT -5
A shame WB would probably f*** it up. The one characters movie that SHOULD be more like Batman Forever or Green Lantern.
A Shazam/Capt. Marvel movie has been in development forever but they don't seem to know what the heck to do with it. For a while I think the Rock was attached to it. They were actually considering him for the lead which didn't quite fit to me. Even The Rock knew he might be a better Black Adam so he asked the fans. The dude was a great arrogant heel so I think he'd be a much better fit for that and I think his looks skews closer to Egyptian anyway.
Rouths an interesting possibility but I think Cap should be played by an actor who is a little more tongue in cheek with the humor and more old Hollywood looking. In a perfect world Patrick Warburton would be 20 years younger and playing Captain Marvel.
John Hamm has the jaw for it and seems to have a pretty good sense of humor. Thats my current choice.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Feb 24, 2012 14:49:32 GMT -5
You can find William Goldman's Shazam script floating around online. I believe that was the one that came closest to being made. It's not bad!
I believe Rock WAS gonna be Black Adam, which would be perfect, but I could see him as Cap as well.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 24, 2012 15:26:18 GMT -5
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Post by stargazer01 on Feb 24, 2012 16:42:10 GMT -5
Brandon is very funny, but I just don't see him as Cap. Marvel; to me Marvel is more funny looking than handsome, and I don't see Brandon as funny looking at all. I think he'd make a good Cyclops, or a character more commanding like that one. Or a villain. He's great at it too. Have you seen this short he made recently? It's great. Lots of solar flares it'd make J. J. Abrahams jealous, though. ;D COST OF LIVING: vimeo.com/30995060 |
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 6, 2012 12:09:37 GMT -5
whatleydude.com/2012/03/superman-returns/Another well-written article defending SR. I just don't agree that Kate Bosworth was that bad. This was a different Lois because the story demanded it. And there was some great character development for her character. I guess some people just wanted the traditional Lois, period. I liked her story in this film, and I think Kate was decent in the role.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Apr 6, 2012 12:14:09 GMT -5
Let's set her "story" aside for a moment. You can practically see Bosworth mouthing her lines before she says them. If this woman can't put a convincing sentence together, there's no way I can buy her as a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter. She's unwatchable, the character is unlikeable, and every scene she's in grinds the movie to a halt. I do not, for one second, believe that ANYONE would pine for her for five years, or that a smart, successful, nice guy like Cyclops would put up with her shit, especially while harboring the suspicion that he's raising another man's kid.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 6, 2012 12:24:35 GMT -5
Cyclops ;D as far as somebody being doormat enough to raise some other dudes kid while putting up with a woman's sh*t you'd be surprised.
Bosworth's Lois just never struck me as the type a guy would PINE over either. Hatcher sure. Durance OK. Even Kidder at her best had a magnetism. Thats what Lois should have. Bosworth was too damn bland to she any kind of magnetism. I didn't hate her but she was miscast. Just like Dunst as MJ. No way would I break my back crawling after a b**** like that. But even she had SOME charm.
Bosworths personality was like watered down milk. Its been 30 years since any Lois blew me away with anything close to a incredible performance. Kidder was on point in SII.
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 6, 2012 12:39:56 GMT -5
Even as a child I always felt that Lois wasn't pretty enough for Supes in the Reeve movies. ;D Kidder looked ok in the first movie, but IMO she looked sort of bad in the other movies, her clothes especially were horrible. Acting wise she did very well.
I also didn't love all of Kate's wardrobe, but I think she's prettier, no doubt. But she was too skinny in the film, and yes, she came off as bland for the most part. I think Lois in SR was a bit unlikeable at first, but her anger towards Superman was justified, so I didn't hate her. Also, by the end of the rooftop/flight sequence her attitude towards him started to change. She started to understand that being Superman wasn't all just rainbows and sunshine.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 6, 2012 12:51:15 GMT -5
Its not just about looks but personality and charm. I've never felt Lois should be the best looking woman in the world because I don't think thats ever been her main appeal to Superman. Lois should look at someone like Wonder Woman and feel inadequate.
I think its because she is so flawed and unorthodox that a perfect boy scout like Superman is so attracted to her. I think she's intoxicating to him. Lois is an independent woman who marches to her own drum. A little bit of a tomboy too. She's probably nothing like most of the girls Clark grew up around. She's a firecracker that's not afraid to tell you what she thinks.
Bosworth's Lois isn't even a WET sparkler.
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 6, 2012 13:13:16 GMT -5
Its not just about looks but personality and charm. I've never felt Lois should be the best looking woman in the world because I don't think thats ever been her main appeal to Superman. Lois should look at someone like Wonder Woman and feel inadequate. I think its because she is so flawed and unorthodox that a perfect boy scout like Superman is so attracted to her. I think she's intoxicating to him. Lois is an independent woman who marches to her own drum. A little bit of a tomboy too. She's probably nothing like most of the girls Clark grew up around. She's a firecracker that's not afraid to tell you what she thinks. Bosworth's Lois isn't even a WET sparkler. Well I ALWAYS felt that Kate was missing something in this role:personality and charm. She just didn't have it, and when she tried it wasn't very convincing. But that's different than saying that she can't act at all. She didn't have the spunk and charm the character requires, but I think she did a good job as a 'hurt' Lois and as a mommy. There is just so much that I like in this film that even she can't ruin it for me. |
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Melv
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Post by Melv on Apr 6, 2012 15:28:08 GMT -5
I saw the SR costume in person today at the London Film Museum. Looks nicer up close but the red is still wrong. I also got to see the original ship that Baby Kal-El gets out of in STM as well as the 'Whitehouse Surrenders' paper from SII. They kicked ass but probably for nostalgic reasons. (I've touched Superman's ship!)  |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 6, 2012 16:19:35 GMT -5
Its not just about looks but personality and charm. I've never felt Lois should be the best looking woman in the world because I don't think thats ever been her main appeal to Superman. Lois should look at someone like Wonder Woman and feel inadequate. I think its because she is so flawed and unorthodox that a perfect boy scout like Superman is so attracted to her. I think she's intoxicating to him. Lois is an independent woman who marches to her own drum. A little bit of a tomboy too. She's probably nothing like most of the girls Clark grew up around. She's a firecracker that's not afraid to tell you what she thinks. . i think the comics did a good job of that byrne-doomsday, then again in the jeph loeb/geoff johns eras ( in the post-ressurection/pre-president lex she was a shrill harpie). lois is a feminine ideal, but not necessarily a sex-pot and she DOES harbor a bit of envy/threatened-by feeling toward wonder woman. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 0:26:41 GMT -5
Kate Bosworth is the single worst element of Superman Returns in my eyes. Not Spacey, not the plot, not the brown cape. Bosworth. She has no charisma, no presence, no chemistry with Routh. She's a black hole of nothingness that consumes any energy that falls within her terrible grasp.
That's harsh, but this movie was built around a relationship- it's the core of the film- that never crackled, never felt real, never even registered as a blip on a heart monitor. If that relationship had worked, I would have forgiven a lot of the other things I didn't like about the film.
Like I've said before, watch Bogart and Bergman in Casablanca. Their history isn't fully explained, but the performances tell you everything you need to know. That's what Superman Returns needed from Routh and Bosworth, and they just didn't deliver. I place the majority of the blame for that on Bosworth. Routh has at least shown he can be funny and charming when working with the right material.
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 7, 2012 1:27:34 GMT -5
^That sounds like hyperbole. They did have some chemistry, IMO. Brandon especially really emoted love for her; when he watched her going up in the elevator in a good example.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 2:55:03 GMT -5
I have to admit, I use hyperbole about a million times a day.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Apr 7, 2012 7:54:46 GMT -5
Yeah but he was talking about Bosworth
Excellent point about Casablanca. I agree whole heartedly.
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Apr 7, 2012 7:56:56 GMT -5
The chemistry was there for Brandon/Clark, you could tell he had feelings for Lois. I didn't feel anything from the Bos... She had nothing.
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