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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 30, 2012 13:55:26 GMT -5
I agree about SR- the GREAT outweighs the underwelming stuff.
Surprised to read that you hated Bosworth so much. (Not to mention the language you use on her. Wow!) I thought that she was only slightly off in a couple of scenes, but (1) someone more in-line with what we feel Lois could/should be could have been cast- and (2) I thought she was better casting than the casting Singer did for Jean Grey in X-men--- which was even more off, imo.
I thought Bosworth was slightly off, but I know it kills the movie for a number of fans--- I felt the same with Katie Holmes in BB. (Maggie Gyllenhall might not have been perfect casting, but far more believable in that world than Holmes, imo).
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 30, 2012 14:12:22 GMT -5
I got that those were the reasons for it- but --- just as you mentioned- it's personal preference as to what one wants to feel could be bent more towards realism and what should be faithful to the comics--- and how much to swing one way or the other. Given that they chose to do that for the first half--- I was pissed that the ultra-realism of his condition felt like it went out the window for the second half. He does some pushups and in three weeks is back to beating up Bane? I don't mind the idea of the 'Rocky comeback', but I thought the 'Rocky' series--- even when it fluctuated from realism to comic book- made his comebacks more plausible, I thought... and more emotional. I definitely want to watch it one more time to see if I feel differently, but I loved SR, TDK, BB on first viewing..... maybe I'll notice more/feel differently with a second one.... As far as personal preference and whats faithful to the comics Wayne is still faithful to the comics interpretation because what he does has been done in comics before and even the Batman/Bruce Wayne dynamic is faithful because Nolan never said he was only adapting "modern" comics. Faithful to the comics? WHICH comics? If we are going simply by ONE specific comic book interpretation Superman Returns take on Clark Kent isn't faithful to the comics either but much like SR TDKR isn't adapting ONE era of comics or one set of ideas but drawing on many. His take on Bruce Wayne/Batman might not fit the post Miller ideal but its true to many other versions of the character including the O'Neil/Adams version which is a legendary version of the character. It was even during THAT era that Ra's Al Ghul made his debut. Batman quit? He's quit before for various reasons. This isn't even the first media adaptation to do it. I think Wayne was also in the pit longer than three weeks even after his back was fixed. Wayne was in good shape even before the injury so he wasn't exactly starting from scratch. He beat Bane in one on one combat because Bane was caught off guard by Batman's return and Bane's own dependency on his analgesic pumping mask. The same way he beat Bane in the comics because of his dependence on venom. That's TRUE to the spirit of their second battle in the comics. This time he knew there was more to beating Bane than brute force and his usual tactics. This time he didn't underestimate him. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 30, 2012 17:24:34 GMT -5
Bottom line- I loved TDK. HATED TDKR. Felt wrong to me, felt wrong to MY reaction to the Batman comics I read- just as I'm sure (and know) Superman having a kid felt wrong to some Superman fans & I was fine with it... so, again- in the end- either one liked it or didn't.  ((*Sidenote: X-men: First Class was pretty FAR from the comics, but I loved that one- even better than the 'real' comic book origins of how Charles and Magneto met. So, if it's not 100% faithful to the comics, then I'm fine as long as it fits how I feel the comic books have portrayed the characters. )) I didn't mind the 'resurrection' of Bruce Wayne--- I just was disappointed that it wasn't more powerfully done- it felt almost like Nolan chose the most unromantic and minimal way to do the 'spiritual rebirth' section of the film. I don't mind if you go more towards fantasy or reality in a comic book movie, but I was bummed that a number of sequences were done in such an understated way. I loved the Batman vs. Joker's goons section in TDK--- and just about ALL those action sequences had power to it, but also cleverness to it, that I felt was missing in TDKR's action sequences. I wanted to see Batman use his brains during battle with his strength--- SOMETHING--- but maybe I was spoiled by Rocky movies where there's some gimmick or trick that the hero uses that makes the audiences roar and cheer the hero on for his inventiveness or just being psychologically stronger. Having the catwoman use firearms and a quip to truly defeat Bane was like having Boba Fett be destroyed by accident, imo. If this were the first Batman movie post-Batman & Robin, I might have thought it better. Following the extremely lean and mean TDK, and from reading The Dark Knight Returns (which gave it a recipe to adapt from, if they chose to, much like how Batman: Year One was able to influence BB) I felt pretty let down on how they chose to wrap it up. (Not that my disappointment will affect the box office one bit)... In any case- will give it another chance. Some films are better on second viewings... |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 30, 2012 17:35:38 GMT -5
By the way, Cam, I wasn't trying to imply that your opinion of DKR is invalid or anything like that.
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Shane
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Post by Shane on Jul 30, 2012 17:58:45 GMT -5
one thing that has always bugged me about SR was the cape what the heck was it made out of rubber?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 30, 2012 18:15:22 GMT -5
Bottom line- I loved TDK. HATED TDKR. Felt wrong to me, felt wrong to MY reaction to the Batman comics I read- just as I'm sure (and know) Superman having a kid felt wrong to some Superman fans & I was fine with it... so, again- in the end- either one liked it or didn't. Thats cool but I was more than willing to see both films break out of the status quo. It was always an issue of execution. Both films do a pretty good job staying true to the spirits of the characters. People use the "elseworlds"excuse for Smallville. Thats what the films are too. It does have a strong spiritual element. Wayne found what he lost...that same thing that drove him when he was a kid who fell into that well and later watched his parents get shot. Bruce falling into and finally climbing out of that pit mirrors the very thing that happened to him as a boy. When he fell the first time there was a reason he saw his father and remembered his words "Why do we fall?" The doctor told him a child forged by pain and suffering made it out of the pit. Something a child of privilege like Wayne couldn't. but we--the audience--know better about Bruce Wayne. He too was forged by pain. He just needed to find what he had in him before. Knowing and respecting fear and conquering fear brings it full circle to Begins. Even Wayne's LOOKS, his clothes,...mirror the way he was when he first came back to Gotham 9 years before. Wayne is coming around again in a circular journey of the spirit he made years ago. TDKR's execution ain't always perfect but there's a mythic element there. I'll grant you Bane final demise but otherwise...Batman does use his brains. But even then the victory that mattered was one Batman DID win himself. He crushed Bane (who was never the TRUE mastermind anyway) in the way that counted to men like him. Man to man. Will against will. Talia may have stepped in but if she hadn't Bane was beaten and he knew it. And the two fights between Batman and Bane had a big fight feel/comic book quality to them that few mano a mano superhero/villain battles in these types of movies do. Batman was finally going against someone who was on his level in every way. THIS was the kind of showdown fans have been waiting to see Batman in for over twenty years on film and Batman and Bane were both fighting with nothing held back. But still...Batman was two steps ahead of Bane (and Tallia's) plan. If thats not using your brains I don't know what is. His lighting of a fiery Bat signal on the bridge was a psychology play. "Theatricality is a powerful agent." To inspire the people and mess with Banes head. He knew his return would psychologically intimidate Bane. He was doing as much when he was interrogating him after besting him in combat. Using his own words against him. Why do you thing Bane was crumpled on the floor in a fetal position? He wasn't just in agonizing physical pain but Batman had defeated him. Even Batman stepping out of the darkness and into the light to save the city had a meaning. I thought Begins ad TDK were better but even they weren't without their flaws. Ra's plan with the microwave emitter is one in a long line of hokey comic book movie schemes and Dents story in TDK felt a little cramped.  |
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Rod
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Post by Rod on Jul 30, 2012 18:27:40 GMT -5
well, even the joker plan is very unrealistic if you think about it. which is something that TDK dont alllow the audience to do - thinking - due its rollercoster pacing. revisiting the movie im my head now, one of the things i liked the most was that the fight between batman and bane had no sound! zimmer is always exploding his cellos everywhere but when we get to that key scene there is only the real BAM and POW and CRUSH!  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 30, 2012 19:06:51 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 30, 2012 19:08:22 GMT -5
Kryptonian rubber.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 30, 2012 19:10:39 GMT -5
It's all good, Val. Always enjoy reading your view on the comics' stuff, and your take on things even when we disagree! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 30, 2012 19:16:50 GMT -5
Oh, totally. The reason it worked for me , was that the joker and his followers were ALL totally nuts, but the stuff he did psychologically was so messed up, that it made sense that it would cause people to freak out and be afraid. The stuff with Bane, I had more trouble believing/getting into... because I think was SUPPOSED to make sense, but the voice seemed a bit over the top with that mask on. I like the look of the mask, but he seemed far scarier in the production photos to me than when he spoke in the film.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 30, 2012 19:21:35 GMT -5
Kryptonian rubber. Shoulda used one on Lois. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 16:12:03 GMT -5
Kryptonian rubber. Shoulda used one on Lois. Brodie Bruce advocates Kryptonite condoms. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2012 22:10:14 GMT -5
Bryan Singer will be in my restaurant on Tuesday night. I'm not entirely sure of what to do, exactly.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 2, 2012 23:11:19 GMT -5
Kev, after you tell him how much some of us here LOOOVED SR.... could you (please please please)- ask him if he originally was planning on killing off Richard or the kid in MOS? (Or of course whatever else he'd be willing to share he had in mind for SR 2)...
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Post by Valentine Smith on Aug 2, 2012 23:22:58 GMT -5
He never had anything in mind for SR2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2012 23:33:18 GMT -5
I'm not gonna ask him shit. I'm gonna draw Superman saying thanks or something like that and hand it to him on his way out. That's it.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Aug 3, 2012 0:40:08 GMT -5
For some reason, I find that to be a bad idea. He may interpret that the wrong way...
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atp
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Post by atp on Aug 3, 2012 1:07:09 GMT -5
I'm not gonna ask him shit. I'm gonna draw Superman saying thanks or something like that and hand it to him on his way out. That's it. Draw a picture of Cavill saying "thanks" and give it to him. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 3:03:26 GMT -5
ask him if he's allergic to peanuts. They could be deadly..........to him.
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Shane
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Post by Shane on Aug 3, 2012 3:55:19 GMT -5
He never had anything mind for SR2. yeah he did valkyrie |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 3, 2012 4:03:53 GMT -5
Tell him it might take super will power to eat the 32oz steak
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Post by Paul (ral) on Aug 3, 2012 5:11:57 GMT -5
What will he eat? The usual I suspect. Maybe the eggs 2.
You have my permission to use those jokes.
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Post by Kamdan on Aug 3, 2012 9:34:18 GMT -5
Bryan Singer will be in my restaurant on Tuesday night. I'm not entirely sure of what to do, exactly. Mistake him for Will Ferrell. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 3, 2012 10:13:12 GMT -5
Well, that's probably safer. Keeping the job gotta be first. I guess you never know if someone just wants to eat and be left alone. But on another note: Aren't/weren't you curious at all about what he had in mind for SR 2?
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