Just finished my fan cut of S2

[TylerDurden389]

Hey everyone,

I've finally finished my 3rd and final draft of S2. I just finished watching it on tv with the speakers on and I must say I'm more than happy with the final results. I've shown some clips on my old thread so some of you are familiar with my ideas. However, here is an outline:

1. Red Warner's logo
2. Travel through space towards red sun (S1 footage)
3. DC: Trial recap
4. LC opening credits music with S1 Superman logo and credits (a few DC credits to keep names out that don't belong). However, I've added Brando back in, and while I've kept most of the recap shots as the ones from the LC, I've changed the ending slightly because...
5. Selutron post time travel. I have HEAVILY edited this scene down from 6 minutes to 3. No Lois, no Jimmy. Just Superman stopping both missiles. I have ALSO used mostly shots from S1 except for the shots the Sel has altered, so almost the ENTIRE scene is DVD quality.
6. "Lex Luthor scheme bombs...", also shows Sel's "Superman returns to Metropolis" scene. Back to the DP. Added CAM's shot of Supes with his arms crossed when Lois figures it out. I trimmed down some of the dialogue when Perry is talking to them, as well as added the close-up of Reeve and Kidder when she pokes him in the ribs. When Lois jumps, she says "Bye bye baby", and Superman IMMEDIATELY runs downstairs. He opens the shower curtain first as well. Also added a few Lois screams from the Ravine jump, as I did not like the "stock" screams Thau used. Most importantly, I added the "Lois jumps in the ravine" music to this scene, which gives it much more depth IMO.
7. Lex in prison. Not much changed here, added back cop's voice from LC, but scene is completely DC.
8. DC/LC Moon scene. Used DC for video, LC for audio. Added back in a few RIC lines to. "Well it looks like a normal, electrical, interference." As well as "And you will have everything you want." "Men...to KILL".
9. DC Lex escape. Added back in Lex and Eve waving, as well as "How could you do that to Otis?" "What else is Balise for?"
10. LC Honeymoon scene. Heavily edited to remove BOTH the busboy AND the repeated dialogue from the earlier DP scene.
11. Lex at FOS. Added back in deleted scenes here. Added Sel's "Lex and Jor-el" scene.
12. DC/LC Niagra rescue: DC for video, LC for audio. Edited this scene to not only remove a lot of unnecessary dialogue ("Once a girls' seen Superman in action..."), and made Superman save the boy MUCH faster.
13. DC Villains arrive. Actually the first time we see them on Earth in my cut is when the villains are confronted with the cops outside of town. I added the villains theme to this scene to make it more sinister. No floating shotguns here. Zod using his heat vision, cutaway of mountains, sound of explosion.
14. Sel's blank bullets scene. DC lovers fly north.
15. DC/LC Villains in Idaho. Scene starts with president watching on tv. Edited this scene down heavily (to use helicopter crash and flamethrower "blow out" later in Sel's scenes), also added villains theme to give scene more depth. Scene ends with reporter saying "I haven't seen the likes of this since Superman". Cut to
16. Sel's "Home movies" scene. Then LC Superman explains his past scene. I removed some of Supes' "Uh's" and "Um's" so he doesn't stammer as much. He also doesn't apologize about not having any food. When Lois mentions dinner he immediately says "Tonight, sky's the limit..."
17. DC Zod delivers speech. Trimmed down some of his lines. Then cut to MT. RUSHMORE scene.
18. LC Soufle' and Dinner. No orange juice line.
19. Sel's "Villains in D.C". Removed "A very strange surface" line. Also added music to bridge this scene with Sel's "Ursa blows a kiss" scene. I removed the bad shot of the soldiers standing there.
20. DC/LC De-powering. Used mostly DC with LC Lois reactions. I added some blue tint to the Lois shots so there's continuity with the DC color. I have HEAVILY edited the exchanges between Supes and Jor-el here. I think the reason the LC de-powering still works for some of us here on the board is because there's less dialogue, and it gets to the point much clearer and faster. So basically what I did was use the DC scene and make it fit the LC "tone" much more closely. Supes in the chamber still uses DC video with LC audio, as well as the music.
21. Sel's "Zod speaks to general" scene.
22. LC: Lovers in bed.
23. DC: Washington Monument destroyed with ADDED eye beams and close-up of monument hitting the ground. Then DC Villains arrive at White House. Added the music when the villains arrive at the Daily Planet. I don't know why Thau didn't add music for a lot of these pivotal scenes.
24. DC: Don's Diner. Only audio change was I kept Kidder's lines from the DC, but used Reeve's lines from the LC (except for "they knew", of course)
25. DC: Lex and villains at White House.
26. DC/LC: Clark returns to the fortress/repowering. I used the audio from the LC for "Father!!!", "I failed", and "I uh..." in their appropriate DC scenes. I removed "I traded my birthright..." lines. Scene is dark green throughout. I removed Jor'el talking about dying once before. Now the scene goes: "Look at me Kal-el....LOOK AT ME KAL-EL!!!". Scene ends with the "No junkyard reveal" clip that's on youtube. Fades to S4 flying through the mountains towards the FOS shot, to the S3 flying over farmland shot, to the S2 flying towards Paris shot, then finishes with a close up shot of Supes face (looking VERY ANGRY). It's actually the scene from S3 when he is carrying the giant sheet of ice to save the factory. I simply flipped the shot and zoomed in so you don't see the ice sheet in his hands.
27. DC: Villains invade the DP. Added the appropriate music that was used in the LC. I used Veris' audio clips for Zod's voice so it's deeper.
28. DC/LC Superman returns. Mostly Lester, but now Supes stands there while Zod yells for him to kneel, like in the DC.
29. LC: Metro battle. I used DC shots where I could for better picture quality, but Thau made it impossible for most scenes by trimming and/or speeding up a lot of shots. ALSO, when the bus is thrown, Superman STILL says "Don't do it!! The people!!" However, we don't SEE him say it. His smirk threw me off even when I was a kid.
30. DC/LC Metro battle aftermath/ Flight to FOS. Mostly DC, but added LC scene for Ursa saying to kidnap Lois as well. Used RIC line of Zod saying "I trust, you are not wasting my time., Lex Luthor".
31. DC/LC Showdown at FOS: Added a few LC takes here (and gave these shots a blue tint for DC picture continuity) and I removed the Reeve double in the chamber. Also switched Hackman double when he says "He switched it..." lines. Added DC Hackman shots here, but used soundtrack to keep the triumphant music.
32.DC Artic Police, minus "Smallville strongboy".
33. DC Fortress destruction and balcony goodbyes.
34. LC next morning: After Lois says "I didn't close my eyes all night" and walks over to get coffee, I CUT to Lois looking at him while he puts a hand on her shoulder. Then he says "Lois I don't know what to say". When they kiss, I play the "Love theme", and show Perry "Looking" at them curiously (is actually the scene after Supes turns back time at the end of the DC). A few sunset, traffic, and moonlight shots. Fade out.
35. Fade in to next morning. DC scene of Clark and Lois talking at work. I HEAVILY edited this scene to make it seem like they are 2 people with a secret, and are making a joke about it. When Clark walks away to get the pizza and she says "You know you're really super?", when Clark looks at her suspiciously, she gives him a thumbs up. He breathes a sigh of relief, and keeps walking. Lois begins to type her story, and when the typewriter DINGS, we CUT to
36. Clark hitting the elevator button. Bully gets in his face. Clark thinks for a minute, Cut to Diner revenge scene.
37. LC Superman returns the flag. After he says "I won't let you down again" fade out with the sound of the city, cut to...
38.LC: DP Paris scene opening. HEAVILY edited this scene down so it happens much quicker. Added in end credits music from S3 as Clark runs down the alley. A few flying shots from S1 (shots are flipped and shortened), S2, and S3. Superman flies off to his next adventure. Fade out. Credits.

If anyone wants me to post some clips, and if you're interested, PLEASE don't hesitate to ask. I may have made this fan cut to fit my tastes, but I have a feeling that others will like it to.

[HOSNI]

Wow sounds ambitious, would be very keen to see samples of how you've used Sel's footage - and also the new ending you've created.

Hope you can put some up! cheers

[botz1]

yo dude put that on dvd. i'd like to see it..

[TylerDurden389]

Sure thing Botz. PM me your contact info. Hosni, what scenes besides those would you wanna see in particular? I ask this because I've taken down all the other videos I've posted earlier since I don't wanna risk getting my youtube account suspended. So I'll only post stuff people ask for, as well as any scenes that I've edited heavily for a radical change in tone.

[TylerDurden389]

Here's some clips of the more major things I've changed. Any other edits I've done are not that significant (though they are for me lol), or have been done by other editors already (eg: replacing voices with RIC audio), or are things I would have to point out. Best example of that would be using DC footage with LC audio.

1. Travel through space with Red Sun. TBH I don't know why no editor has done this already. I mean, that red "shape" we see in space at the beginning is clearly NOT the red Krypton sun lol.

2. Just a little snippet of my opening credits. I made sure to get the timing *almost* right so that the shirt reveal is in synch with the music. I did a better job of this in other parts.

3. My opening credits ends with Superman discovering Lois. I did a good job of synching the music here when Supes lifts the car out of the ditch and runs over to pull the door off. The KEY moment of course was showing Superman in turmoil and his anger building as the music builds so that when those final notes kick in, he is angry and flies off. When I first thought of doing a fan edit (waaaay back in 2007) THIS was one of the first things I imagined. I cannot express in words how happy I am that it came out exactly how I wanted it to. I even tinkered with keeping his scream and the whoosh of him flying away. It works either way, but since there are no sound effects during these credits, I decided not to. I kept an extra copy with the scream for myself though.

4. As you can see, I've almost completely replaced the video footage for Sel's "post time travel" video with the dvd of S1. I also took out Lois and Jimmy as well. The scene definitely feels more complete when left as is, but I just felt repeating the same scenes from part 1 kinda dragged it out. I understand that Sel was trying to make it a point to show everything happening the same, but slightly different. However, I think that if he ever gets the chance to finish his own project, he would probably shorten this scene down. Notice how I have Superman extend his arms to chase the 2nd missile as the horns kick the "Superman" theme? I used the drum sound as a cutaway to Perry reading the paper to show that some time has passed (as opposed to Lois slamming her car door).

5. I replaced "You wouldn't let me die Superman." with "Bye bye baby" simply because it's quicker, and I don't like the idea of him just standing there waiting for her to jump. Hence, he immediately runs downstairs to save her, instead of looking out the window. I use that shot later on for when he comes back up (instead of the obvious double). The shots of him running through the stairs were done by CAM, although I changed the "whoosh" sound when he blurs passed the camera. The sound when he blows his super breath to slow her fall is actually from Selutron's "Post time travel" clip when Superman uses his super breath to inhale and exhale the giant mushroom cloud. Since I wasn't using that part, and the music was consistent, I used it here. Adding the "Lois jumps in the ravine" music to this scene was CAM's idea to btw. Lastly, I replaced the double saying "Lois what've you done?" with "Lois" that Reeve shouts in the blank bullets screen test. Made his voice low, since she obviously wouldn't be able to hear him from that height.

Yeah, Donner would've definitely re-shot this scene. After altering this scene so much I can *ALMOST* see why they decided to re-shoot it. Her jumping into the ravine is at least a little more plausible.

6. I trimmed down the Honeymoon Haven scene because I REALLY can't stand that busboy. Certain "extras" in the re-shoots just SCREAM Lester to me (and not just because of their accents either). Meaning they just seem like they're obviously his own ideas, and they just don't fit the other scenes at all. I mean, the guy LAUGHS when Lois says "It's fine I'll walk". Also trimmed the scene down because we don't need to hear them say the same thing we heard Perry say at the DP earlier. Plus I really can't stand the way Margo acts in *most* of the Lester scenes. You can tell she hated being there after Donner was fired.

7. Villains in Idaho was trimmed down because I save the flamethrower blow out and chopper crash for Sel's scenes. When Zod points his finger, I simply zoomed in a bit to remove his "finger beam". Also for the rockets crashing on them I added back in the music from when Zod sets the diner on fire. I figured since I wasn't use that scene, I might as well use the music. Anything to make the villains seem more evil. I had originally planned to use the earlier Idaho scenes (with MANY cuts) and simply use the music from when the villains first appear on krypton in Lester's re-shoot, but it made the scene too short, and I didn't have a way of bridging that scene with this scene or the previous villains scene. I couldn't make it a separate scene either because then I would've needed to cut the "Superman explains his past" scene in half (meaning first show him talking, end scene when he flies off to get dinner, back to villains for a bit, then show Superman landing in the tropics and returning home) in order to keep the outline of the scenes consistent.

Ultimately I didn't like the idea of constantly going back and forth for scenes that were less than 2 minutes long. Though that ended up happening during these scenes anyway. Even after I bridged the 2 Selutron scenes of the Villains in DC scenes together.

8. The reason I changed the dialogue around during the de-powering is because I think the reason it works better in the LC is because it's much shorter and gets straight to the point. As glad as I am to finally see these scenes, I DON'T like Superman saying things like "After all I've done for them? Will there ever come a time when I served enough?" I feel it really takes away from the character. "I only ask this much, no more." also doesn't work for me because at that point it's like he's pleading.

Removed Jor-el saying "The concepts are mutually exclusive" again, to get to the point faster. Used the shot of Lois about to speak before Jor-el cuts her off. I've seen MANY fan cut takes on the de-powering scene (probably more than 10 at this point), and this "reaction" shot has been used in various places. I feel it works best here because by showing Jor'el interrupting her, it only helps to show why Lois never speaks up.

I added the "laughing" shot of Reeve when Jor-el says "Your's is a higher happiness" because I don't like how we stay focused on Jor-el for such a long time. No reaction from Supes at all. Same goes for Supes looking down when Jor-el says "You must've felt that happiness within you." Supes knows his father is right. No need for him to say "No, I cannot". By having Supes simply say "Any more than I can deny the other which is stronger in me father." just further emphasizes this point.

Showing Jor-el tilting his head up when his son is SPEAKING to him shows that he is listening. I don't know what Thau was thinking when he edited this, but that part with neither of them speaking feels PAINFULLY longer than it should. Seeing Jor-el tilt his head up and then Supes tilt his head down? I almost feel like a laugh track is missing (or better yet, Lois voicing her opinion). Going from there right to "Must I be denied..." quicker just shows how serious Supes is with his decision.

Again, Donner would've re-shot this. It was filmed early and thus was not really given the Verisimilitude it needed.

9. Clark's speech. Since I don't like the change in geography with Lester's FOS, I decided that, since the reason most prefer LC speech is because of Reeve's delivery, why not simply overdub the DC scene with it? I removed some of the lines here because again, get to the point quicker. Also Reeve's voice is a little higher here, so it kinda throws off the continuity. The RKS cut of S2 actually DEEPENS his voice here, but it was TOO deep for me. Another early shoot that would've been re-filmed. I think this might've been the first scene Reeve did.

10. Jor-el's farewell. Again I used Reeve's line "I, uh.." from the LC. I removed the whole "Once before when you were small..." piece because I think it just beats us over the head with the God/Jesus thing a little too much. I think Donner would've changed this as well and made it a little more subtle. I also didn't like hearing Jor-el says "Look at me Kal-el" twice...until I saw that it worked better by having Clark not immediately turn his head when Jor-el says it the first time.

11. Superman reborn. Veris was the first to try something like this (that I had seen). He just added the music in and used a still frame of Superman standing there with his arms crossed. Another fan cut (I think it's the deja-vu cut) does it by showing various empty shots of the FOS with Clark's breathing. Then it shows the scene from S1 when he flies towards the camera. I had done this in my 1st and 2nd draft by using the Concorde scene from the RIC, but now wanted to use dvd quality sources. So I took a few flying shots from each sequel. the sunset shot of him flying away is from S4, the flying shot over farmland is S3 (the factory scene), the other shot over farmland is S2 (Paris scene), and the last shot is S3 again. The shot when he's holding the ice sheet. I zoomed in and flipped the shot.

This was another one of those PIVOTAL scenes I imagined when I first thought of doing a fan cut. However, my PERFECT vision is to use the shot of Supes flying towards the ceiling in S1 after Miss Teschmaker saves him, and he crashes through the roof. If I knew a thing about rotoscoping I would've attempted this. The last shot would still be a close up of Supes face showing the determination in his eyes as he flies off to stop the villains. CAM did some GREAT rotoscoping here using shots of Reeve in "Somewhere in Time" that I would've LOVED to use.

I just realized I should've tried to add "whoosing" sounds for these shots. Ugh.

12. "No!! Don't do it!! The people!!" That smirk. Even as a kid I never understood why he would smile. Aside from Veris, no other fan cut has removed this. A pretty simply edit really.

13. This, not so simple. I don't like the Hackman double. Yes it sounds like him, but just personal preference. I think the only Hackman double line that appears in my cut is "What else is Balise for?" So, I had cut this DC shot so that it stayed in time with the LC music, and use the soundtrack to fill in the gap.

14. Superman says "I do." This was the 3rd and last thing I had envisioned when I first thought of making a fan cut. I personally don't have a problem with Lois knowing his secret. In both the DC and LC cuts she says "I won't tell them who you are." By adding the "love theme" here, it's my way of saying that Superman won't hide his love for her, even as Clark. Lois is happier this way. This was done originally by "ABDirector" on youtube, but I had thought of the idea literally a day before seeing his take on it. I felt his take on it was better than mine.

I was originally gonna use the end of the "Love theme" when they kiss. When the music gets loud, all the instruments are playing, and it builds up to the crescendo. The moment they kiss, the last loud note is heard. Then as they're kissing and the flutes play soflty, I would fade to Superman flying over Earth, and as the last note on the harp is heard, he smiles to the camera. Credits.

ABDirector "one-upped" me by adding Perry looking at them curiously. CAM sealed the deal by adding those sunset shots.

15. You know you're really super?" New context. Earlier when Clark says "My goodness, with that look you might as well be on the north pole or something." As he says that I use the reaction shot of Lois turning towards him when he says "Uh Lois, you know about the pizza?" By having her turn to him as he mentions the north pole, it's my way of saying that Clark is making a joke about their secret, and Lois is kinda shocked for him to be so open about it. Thus, she goes along with the joke. "Did you ever feel like you knew something that was so important..." Same lines, different context. Having her give him the thumbs up after saying he's super, is just her way of pulling his leg.

I use the DING sound of the typewrite to segue Clark near the elevator. Jimmy's "new camera" only works if Supes reversed time. Also, that hallways they walk down towards the elevator was destroyed when the villains arrived. This is why I don't show Clark walking towards his desk and pushing through the double doors. In my cut we show the skyline, hear the sounds of the office, and cut right to him saying good morning to Lois.

16. Superman;s next mission. While I LOVE my original ending idea of ending the movie after the kiss, i thought this ending was even better. Let's face it, had Donner finished, he most certainly would NOT have re-hashed the fly-by over Earth shot. That was just another cheap answer since Lester and the producers didn't have Donner's vision. And who'd have thought it would've made it's way through all 4 films AND be re-done by Singer?

Anyway, I use the Paris opening scene here with MUCH dialogue removed. I LOVE how much faster the scene goes now. It also works continuity wise because since the villains originally destroyed the place, many days have passed. Clark and Lois kissing the next morning. Clark and Lois joking a few days later (as the sunset and highway shots show that more time has passed). The diner revenge scene, AND Superman returning the flag. Not to mention we see the workers in white outfits are clearly fixing up the place (the guy Clark tries to help as he walks in). So seeing the place fixed up, and looking slightly different works now because if you look hard enough, you CAN see the difference between Donner's DP office and Lester's.

So everything is back to normal, and Superman has a new mission. Lois is happy. Lex is back in jail, along with the villains. Now Supes flies off to his next adventure to do what he was put here to do. I did a perfect job of synching the music when Superman runs in the alley. If you watch closely, you can see that I timed the trumpets with each moment. Clark appears, grabs his glasses, grabs his shirt, and OPENS it in perfect time with the theme kicking in. Then I used a shot from S1 which I flipped so that it doesn't look like I simply re-used a shot. Then a shot of him passing the bus passengers (also flipped), again perfect timing with the music. Then another S1 flipped shot (after he jumps out the window). The S2 shot of him flying towards Paris. Another S3 shot, and lastly the S3 shot of him after defeating his evil self. Once again, each shot changes in time with the music.

[Jack Tripper]

can't watch the video. you have to enable embedding.

[TylerDurden389]

That's weird. I played it and it worked fine. I've uploaded videos here before the same way I uploaded this one and no one said they had trouble watching them.

[Jimbo]

I see you made the repowering scene dark to match the Lester version. Did you use my cut or redo the color? You used more Donner than I did.

BTW, my first cut removed the "No, don't do it, the people" line. While using the Donner footage, it's easy to chop that out because the music is not affected much. I used Lester throughout and making that trim hurt the music, so I left it in.

At 7:20, placing the Thorne music over the Donner scene doesn't work. I can hear both music tracks playing, and then when you fade out one of the tracks, it's pretty noticeable. I took the hit and just used the Lester version which had a Hackman voice double.

This looks pretty promising. Don't forget the cardinal rule: whatever it is you complete, make sure you like every change you make. Don't make it for anyone but yourself.

[TylerDurden389]

Jim, for the re-powering I re-colored it for when Clark is speaking, and then I cut to your footage after the green cyrstal close-up (I think, it may be a shot or 2 before or after). I used more DC footage because I really do believe the reason more of us are actually pro-Lester for this scene isn't so much the overall scene itself, but the way the lines are delivered. So, just re-color the DC footage to match the LC, and then overdub Reeve with his own voice. Trimming out some of the dialogue helps to. Again, one thing Lester did get right with these pivotal scenes was to keep them straightforward and not beat us over the head with what's going on. Granted, Donner would've obviously re-shot this and probably kept it simple too.

For the "Don't do it" line, yes using the DC music is easier, but we've heard that same music cue twice already, making this the 3rd time. I think the trumpets coming in just as the bus is thrown really works. In order to keep the music consistent I had to show the far shot of them holding the bus up twice.

I agree about the Thorne music. I tried to make the fades work but Womble doesn't do much for sound editing. Either way, I also agree with your last point. Do what makes you happy. I don't mind hearing both tracks, as long I hear Hackman's real voice.

Anyway, I just got back from the store. I shipped out your copy, as well as a few others. Still waiting on contact info. from a few of you. I have copies ready. Btw, I've been thinking about putting my fan cut up on fanedit.org but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to use Selutron's clips without asking him first. Granted, all this fancut stuff is illegal anyway, but I still don't wanna take that chance. Especially since he has been in contact with WB and all. I mean he did take a risk by doing that, which unfortunately meant taking down his page.

[EvilSupes]

Hi tyler I have to say I really like some of your ideas and I was planning on doing something very similar with my cut and in fact some of your scenes you have edited are EXACTLY what that I was planning out in my head.

This seems so awesome because you have done nearly all the stuff I was going to do, but you did it first, so that makes me feel like maybe I don't need to do my cut. ;D

I can't tell you how pleased I am someone has done something like this, as all the superman cuts I've watched have all pretty much been pretty unadventurous except for Litemakr's "Deja Vu Cut" and Wearneo/Ollie's "complete cut" and CAM's S2 edit - sorry Jimbo haven't seen yours yet. So Selutron footage or not, I think you should put it on Fanedit.org simply to add to the ranks of adventurous S2 edits.

Are you releasing it in DVD/MPEG2 form tyler? Please say that you are I can't stand all these heavily compressed xvix avi's that everyone seems to always keep using for fanedits. You could do 2 releases, an xvid for people with slow connections and DVD for those who want cinematic quality.

[TylerDurden389]

Hi EvilSupes. Thank you so much for the compliments!!! That's cool that we have similar ideas for editing the scenes. One thing this adventure has taught me is that while my ideas vastly differ from some editors, it's always good to know that there are plenty of others who have the same sentiments as me.

I'll admit I was actually worried at first and felt I was taking a risk by altering a lot of the scenes (ESPECIALLY the de-powering scene, as the Brando footage is stuff some of us have been waiting for, for years), but I felt that this was what worked for me. Funny thing is, when I go back to my 1st and 2nd drafts, I didn't alter the footage nearly as much as I did here. Having a good year to really think about it and work with it has helped me fine-tune it, I think.

During this entire thing I've kept in close contact with CAM through emails, and our constant going back and forth over each others cuts (I've sent him copies of my 1st and 2nd drafts, and he's sent me his cut as well) has helped me a lot. Constructive criticism is really what shaped this.

Believe me, there's a lot of things from the 2nd draft of my cut that I wanted to keep in SOOOO badly. The "Feed the babies" scene, the RIC footage, a few scenes from the KCOP of S1, as well as A LOT of CAM's additions. I think he had a great idea going with the "Capricorn 1" footage. His re-powering scene really struck a chord with me. Sure it's just repeated dialogue from S1, and yes it IS a rotoscoped shot of Reeve from "Somewhere in Time", but I have a strong feeling that, had Donner returned, he would've done something VERY similar.

CAM's Metro battle was too long yes, but I edited it down in my 2nd draft to show him what could be done. I hate for all the time and effort he put into it to go to waste. The way he was able to make the villains do more (like throwing police cars at Supes instead of a simple manhole) was great. I also LOVED how he had the villains all gang up on him before he flew away at the end of the battle. He was also able to do a few ideas that I suggested. The best example being when Supes is spinning Zod around, why not use a blur effect and a wind effect to show Supes spinning him really fast? Superman DOES have the power to do that after all. I hate to toot the sound of my own horn here, but ideas like this are the things they SHOULD'VE been thinking of when they did the DC in the first place.

What made me decide against all of these things was that, besides wanting to have an almost perfect DVD quality edit, was that I understood how the context for most of them simply didn't work. Why would Miss Teschmaker want to help Lex escape prison after he tried to kill her? And what was he dropping her into anyway (no mention of "the babies" in S1, as they're deleted scenes). For the Nasa sequence, sure seeing Hal Holbrook dial the red phone and having the General pick up and then warn the President is a great way of bridging 2 scenes that in actuality have nothing to do with each other. But alas, since we only see the president watching the villains on tv, it meant that this "added" scene of mine doesn't really add anything.

You can see where I'm going with this. Additional RIC dialogue may be fun to see, but I simply had to view these scenes the same way I view the additional 45 minutes of footage in the KCOP cut of S1. These scenes simply don't add anything (well ok, I think a few scenes of Lex formulating his missile hijacking would've helped the continuity of that entire sequence in S1). Had Donner finished 2, he would've probably axed these scenes just like the footage in the KCOP. I hate to admit it, but the DC proves this. I mean sure I would've LOVED to have the added dialogue between Supes and Lex, but someone told me that Zod wouldn't let them talk that long. After thinking about it long enough, I was able to cut those strings and admit they were right. The added lines between Supes and Lois after he destroys the FOS was great too (though adding back that music would've meant dubbing the RIC dialogue over the DC footage). Basically, what made this work was holding back on all the things that I liked, and making my goal more about "what works".

I emailed one of the admins on fanedit.org earlier today to ask about Sel's scenes. If it turns out I can't upload it, I can always send you a copy. I have plenty of blanks. I actually had planned on making 2 fan cuts. One with the Selutron scenes and one without. I would've probably re-done the opening credits to skip over Lois dying (as the LC *sort of" did), and thus no need for a post time travel recap. I would've used the Jor-el and Lex scenes that were edited by one of the other editors (where they make Jor-el's head a different color to show that it's a recorded "tape", and not Jor-el's spirit). And probably did something similar to what Veris did with the pink bear reveal. I do have a way of making the Idaho footage work if I wanted to.

TBH I'm actually not sure what you mean by DVD/MPEG2 files. Do you mean VOB files? Because that's what I got when I exported the finished movie (I used Womble Video Wizard DVD). However I unfortunately had to use DVDShrink because the VOB files totaled in at over 6 gigs. So I used shrink and got it down to the typical 4.3 gigs that most dvds are.

**edit** I just checked my email. The admin says that it would be considered courteous to ask, but since it's a free site and there's no copyrights involved, I can proceed. Here's the big question though: SHOULD I contact the owner of capedwonder.com and ask them to get in touch with Selutron for me? Or should I just move forward with this? To be honest, if I could communicate with Sel, I'd really like to. I'd love to tell him thanks for everything that's he's done, and has tried to do. The downside of course is, if he says no, then I'd hate to go along with this.

[EvilSupes]

Sounds brilliant tyler.

CAM is really good at giving ideas outside the box, so to speak. I was going to do my SII HD Cut with him but what we were trying to achieve with it I think would be too much work and I think he had enough of doing rotoscoping.

I think what you have done by including other people's work/clips into your movie is good because like said, some of them are better than the originals and the work doesn't go to waste.

On a more geeky note, is the sound going to be 5.1 or 2.0? I'm guessing 2.0 as some of CAM's and Selutron's clips are 2.0 and you'd have to upmix them to achieve 5.1. What aspect ratio are you using for your video? Reason I ask is because some of CAM's clips were widescreen letterbox.

Also, what I meant about DVD/MPEG2 was precisely what you thought with regards to .VOB files.

Let us know more about the fanedit.org side of things and when it's uploaded!

[TylerDurden389]

Ok, the sound question is hard to answer because I've used SO many different sources. In the scenes that are edited, very little of what you're hearing is from the video source. I've replaced DC audio with LC audio in many places while still using DC for the picture. Which I got from Jimbo's cut, since the theatrical is the only one I don't have on dvd. For the "post time travel" recap, even though I used S1 as the video source for better picture quality, it's all muted because the sound is still Sel's clip. I also used the soundtrack in certain places. I've used the DC as a base when it comes to picture quality, so any scenes that aren't edited that are in the DC (and weren't edited by Thau), that's the only time the sound is the same as the actual dvd.

So to answer your question, no. I doubt much of the audio in this cut is 5.1. Womble is one of the more simpler video editing software and I don't think it does that. If it does I wouldn't even know where to start. This is all still very new to me. For the aspect ratio, again, I wanted all the other footage to match the DC. I had to clip the bars a little when using LC footage because the DC footage is zoomed out slightly, as I can see black on the sides. Going back and forth frame by frame with the same footage from both cuts is how I noticed this. And I thought the LC having a very flat and dull color was the only difference lol. How wrong I was.

CAM's footage was something different altogether. I asked him to send me the original files of some of the things he edited so that I would have the proper aspect ratio. Which he was gracious enough to do. However, the footage ended up being useless because the files were so big that they were causing the program to freeze up. What I ended up doing was using the footage from CAM's first cut that he sent me a while back. The problem with the footage from his cut was that it didn't go all the way to the ends of the screen (the sides). So I undid the "maintain aspect ratio" option, which caused the picture to be stretched horizontally, making everything smaller and fatter. this also made the widescreen bars too close together. So I cropped the footage on top and bottom which helped stretch it back to a normal size vertically. So I did that until the bars were lined up *almost* perfectly.

Lastly, any parts that are edited by either CAM, Jim, or Sel, if I could use DC or LC audio or the soundtrack in those parts, I did. One example would be the small shot CAM did for the Niagra rescue. He rotoscoped a shot of Supes from S3 to show him flying to save the boy. I muted the clip and kept the LC audio over it. Another example would be another small snippet CAM did to show Superman standing in Clark's place when Lois figures it out. Again, muted his clip, and kept the DC audio going. It was simply a matter of changing the speed of the shot and/or removing the necessary frames so that the shot fit perfectly into place.

[Jimbo]

Feb 4, 2010 13:50:02 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

So to answer your question, no. I doubt much of the audio in this cut is 5.1. Womble is one of the more simpler video editing software and I don't think it does that. If it does I wouldn't even know where to start. This is all still very new to me.

I used Womble for my video (and unfortunately, audio too) editing. It does output 5.1 audio. When exporting the video into MPEG or DVD format, you can select the type of audio you wish to output, the bitrate, and so on.

It does a pretty good job in simulating 5.1 audio for stereo sources. For instance, when I added the deleted scenes, which were in stereo, the software put the voice track into the center channel when it converted it to 5.1.

The major flaw with Womble's audio editing is that it doesn't handle fades and transitions well. There are usually faint pops in the sound when one track blends into another.

It doesn't handle effects very well either. Fades to black or video cross-fades look pretty grainy.

I used TMPGEnc for all my video effects needs, like blowing up the video of the Souffle scene or changing the color timing.

[TylerDurden389]

Oh boy, you've opened up a can of worms for me. Honestly, I think I'll avoid doing that because A) I've wasted so many blanks trying to get it on dvd in the first place (I had some trouble with the menus), and B) it wouldn't be fair for me to do that for myself and not for the people I already sent copies out to. I watched my cut on tv with my surround speakers on and I didn't have a problem with the sound.

Either way, thanks for letting me know that. I wish I had known earlier. This stuff is really all new to me lol.

[EvilSupes]

Womble is a nice program, I used it once or twice. But as far as being able to do everything you want and still being able to use it with relative ease, I would have to say Sony Vegas is the perfect editing software - you should download a trial version and test it out at some point. For more advanced stuff Premiere Pro is the one to use but it can make things take twice as long I usually find, but it is definitely more precise.

[crazy_asian_man]

Since, as Tyler mentioned, we've been shooting a lot of communication back & forth, just thought to comment on a few bits outside on the content notes that might be of interest generally for the thread .

* About Donner reshooting the DP jump--- I think for sure Donner would have shot the STUNT differently--- Donner's film IMMEDIATELY after STM was "Inside Moves"--- which had an EXTREMELY impressive stunt jump from a building (the main character tries to commit suicide in the first few minutes of the film) --- and Donner also had the stunt jump from a building (equally impressive) in "Lethal Weapon".

The way that the DP jump sequence was done.... felt incomplete, plus from some of the images on Capedwonder.com--- can't help but feel that it was Thau's overcutting that did it in. (Whether time constraints forced bad decisions is another matter)

Also, as in the Mank script, Lois does look over and see Supes in Clark's place- a small moment, but I think it does add something special in the script that I tried to sortof replicate in roto.

*About the Superman's dialogue somewhat resenting helping people in talking w/Jorel.... there are a lot of different subtle shades in the Donner script that can't help but make me wonder if the personal story would have played out far differently- not just in the screen test, but also in the other Niagara and Lois/Supes Fortress scenes that never got shot, that might have made a stronger impact overall.

If any scenes really show how differently Donner and Lester characterized Supes, I think the Lester scene with Supes' 'umms' when he's explaining how he found the crystal and the restored scene with Jor-el where Supes talks about everything he's done for humanity really shows it.

With Lester, he pushed the 'everyman' aspect of Supes too much.... whereas Donner seemed to go with the idea of Supes being a godlike entity that was making peace (or trying to) with his role on earth.

Stilll.... more and more, I'm leaning towards the perspective that the perfect cut seems to really be more about (sadly) accepting that there's not enough Donner footage (accessible to us at the very least) to make a real complete Donner cut, but that the best thing is trying to find a comfortable immersive compromise between both directors.

Gr to Lester. Pity Lester's career was so weak that he didn't try to make it more about trying to complete a more serious Donner film and instead making it a Lester tainted film to try to launch a career comeback. *sigh*

[snoopkryptodog]

I got here too late to see the clips, but the outline sounds very ambitious. Kudos on taking so many risks!

[TylerDurden389]

Hey guys. I've decided that I wanna put my fan cut of Superman 2 on "fanedit.org" so everyone can download it. However, I can't think of a name for it. I don't wanna call it anything long like "the no camp cut", especially since that's not the only goal I had set when I made this. Same goes for "the serious edit", as there's still humor in there. Seeing as how I have Lois remember, I thought maybe something with that could work. "The no amnesia kiss cut"?. Ugh, too long I think.

After a few viewings I've noticed that my cut is not only short in length (just under 2 hours) but we go through the scenes pretty quickly (as I've trimmed off most of the fat). "The action cut"? Since I use a lot of ideas from other editors, maybe something like "The bits and pieces cut"? Or how about "The best of both worlds cut"? I think that sounds too much like the hybrid cut, and that's already taken.

Anyway, I would REALLY appreciate it if you guys could help me out.

[Kal-Ex]

What do you think of: The short cut ?

[crazy_asian_man]

Hrm...
Titles aren't my strong suit, but since you threw out a request for brainstorming:

*The Superfast cut? (eh)
*The "Lois Remembers" cut?
*The 'high intensity' cut?
*TylerDurden's cut?

I'll keep thinkin'...... *sigh*

[snoopkryptodog]

I've just watched this particular cut; I don't have a suggestion for a title, but I wanted to post a review.

This is certainly a tightly paced cut of SII; elements of it are fantastic, elements of it sacrifice some emotion that might've benefited the cut.

I really enjoy the abbreviated version of Selutron's turning back time sequence. This was an excellent truncation that made for a really exciting sequence. It does cut out the bits that fill a plot hole from SI (ie - why the heck is Lois seeing things explode if Supes has changed history?), which was my reason for enjoying Selutron's sequence in the first place, but on the other hand, the new sequence moves the story forward quickly, so the benefits of shortening the piece may outweigh the limits of doing the same.

However, I believe that what makes Superman so compelling is that he's essentially a god with human emotions.

As such, I wonder about closing the opening credit sequence with Lois dying and starting the action with Supes turning back time. In my world, the action would begin with him holding Lois' dead body, freaking out, and then turning back time. Why? It shows Supes' agony. Yes, this ground was covered in SI, but it's a nice preparation for later events - Supes makes mistakes when it comes to Lois.

Here, he misuses his powers to rewrite fate, not caring about the consequences, in this case releasing Zod et al. We need to see this moment live and Supes broken - it reminds us that yes, he's human and therefore vulnerable.

On a technical note, the musical cue used to cut from the credits to the turning back time sequence seemed rushed; a better transition is needed.

Similarly, the jump to the DP opening is potentially confusing to neophyte SII viewers. We see Supes accidentally releasing the villains', we jump right to DP, and Supes arriving at the DP. Fans less familiar with Superman films may be taken aback by the speedy transition to events.

I've wondered if there was a way to take advantage of the SI deleted footage:

-Villains are freed; cut to feeding the babies sequence, then to DP sequence: Luthor's scheme bombs

The issue with this proposed strategy is that the audience might wonder why Ms. Tesmacher would later help Lex escape if he tried to kill her. So what matters more - establishing a passage of time, or leaving the audience unconfused about why Eve would help Lex? Tough call. I think it's better not to confuse the audience.

Another way to handle the passage of time would be through the use of dissolves - fade to black from Zod at the moon. Cue typewriter sound effects. Fade in on an establishing shot of the DP. Cut to Perry slapping the paper.

The Superman films don't typically use this style of editing, so it may seem out of place, but it is a well-established editing technique for establishing the passage of time and if only used once, may not be especially jarring. Dissolves were also used briefly in the Lois dies sequence, so there is a potential precedent there.

Back to the review. The DP sequence continues. The change in sound cues for the Lois jumps out the window sequence outlined in earlier posts really benefit the scene. I still wonder if Supes would've used his heat vision in public while dressed as Clark, but that isn't a fault of this cut, moreso the source footage.

I wonder if the scene would be better served by stopping at Clark saying "Darn!", leaving Lois to better plan a scheme to unveil Supes' identity. Sure, she's impulsive, but she's also calculating. Revealing Superman's identity is like a flirtation, subtextually. She wants a long, slow burn to the man she loves, bringing him into the open a bit of a time. Therefore, we build to later events. "I've got you, Superman - just you wait and see."

Taking this route might hurt this particular cut - it uses the blank bullets footage which specifically references her jumping out of a window. More on this later.

Back to the review once again. Many of the changes outlined in previous posts, from the moon sequence to the prison break, particularly adding in RIC sound cues, greatly enhance the action.

Here again, I wonder if deleted footage would better serve the film. The balloon sequence always irritated me. Sure the guards are screwing around. But they have guns and balloons are slow moving - why risk a buck shot to the balloon, grounding the escape? The deleted car sequence makes more sense (though the warden preparing for a date sequence is a bit much too), as a car moves far more quickly than a balloon.

However, this is not a criticism of the cut, moreso the source footage.

Back to the review. The transition to the Niagara footage is among the best I've seen. No bell hop, no unnecessary exposition. This is beautifully handled.

This brings us to the Selutron altered footage of Lex at the fortress. This footage is grainy, and distracting; visual enhancements would benefit it but it makes sense thematically and visually. It does beg a question - the recap of the villains history is so well done here, do we need the prologue prior to the credits?

I also hate the Eve on the toilet bit and think it should be cut completely. I also miss Lara's remark about a nuclear explosion being able to shatter the Phantom Zone; it makes more sense that Lex would later make the link between his failed assault on California and the release of the villains, but this is a minor point.

This also brings me to a plothole that has driven me crazy about any version of SII. Where does Miss Tesmacher disappear to? I personally wish we had one sequence of Lex killing her.

The sequence wouldn't be gory, or violent. Just evil. For example, Lex is having a romantic dinner with Eve, but can't stop talking about how to convince the villains to work for them. She gets upset; he apologizes, hands her a love letter and toasts her. She opens the letter: "I'm free. You've served your purpose. Goodbye." She starts choking. Lex smiles. "Poisoned wine. Your reward for releasing Superman." Cut away.

At any rate, no fan cutter has ever created such a scene and it may not add enough to the film to justify it; this is just a pet peeve of mind and the fan cut at hand doesn't suffer any more or less for not explaining where she disappears to. It's a minor plothole, really, just one that's messed with for years.

Back to the review. The kid falling into Niagara was a mixed bag - omitting the Clark's glasses bit works well. In this cut, we already know Lois is onto Clark. The glasses bit doesn't add a thing here and is rightly cut out. However, this cut includes "what a nice man" and "of course, he's Jewish." Please flush these lines down the Kryptonian crapper like the Eve takes a whiz sequence.

The villains meet the hick cops was beautifully done. Suggesting that Zod simply blew them to bits avoids the plothole of unexplained powers, while giving him a sadistic edge - without making the movie gory. Nice work here.

The Selutron bullets sequence is also a mixed bag. Remaining outside the hotel room for so long gets distracting. The visuals establish that we're outside the hotel; I'm not sure the dialogue needs to be filtered. Some of the rotoscoping looks cheap. However, it does add a necessary element to the scene. Supes has his back turned to Lois. He can't use X-rays to see if there's a bullet. He's so strong, he might not notice a bullet hitting him, so therefore, it's easier to believe he'd fall for Lois' scheme.

That said, I miss some of the emotion of the pink bear scene. Again, Supes is a god with a human heart. Say what you will about the pink bear aesthically, that scene shows him at his most vulnerable - finally, he admits his feelings for Lois rather than lie. I've read time and time again, Superman wouldn't trip. No, he wouldn't. But here he's Clark, human. And his guard is down. As Lois says "maybe you wanted to [trip] with your heart."

That said, back to my earlier point about the search for Superman's identity as a subtext for flirtation. If this is going to work, the blank bullets scene has to be used - Clark gets undressed. Lois has her way with him, figuratively speaking. The literal sex comes later.

I wish there was a way to create a hybrid blank bullets/pink bear scene to harvest the emotion of the Lester scene, but part of that scene requires the use of the jump into the Niagara river. And it would be difficult to explain why Clark fell into the fire. If he faked collapsing due to the shot, it wouldn't make sense - he had no bullet wound. How would he explain that to Lois?

Overall, the blank bullets sequence works in this cut, but the lost emotion is regrettable. In the absence of an effective pink bear/bullets hybrid, editors are stuck with a choice between one or the other. In the version of SII presented here, the right choice was made, though I'd go with the pink bear myself, and recut earlier scenes to justify the choice (ie - omit Lois jumping out the window). The eternal debate rages on!

The battle with the army in Texas is very well done. I was initially jarred by Zod pointing his finger and seeing no laser beam erupt from it, but here, it's implied he's ordering Non to use his heat vision to kill. It works. Nicely done sequence.

I had a challenge with the victorious Zod speaking to the conquered soldiers. There was an abrupt cut from the speech to the destruction of Mount Rushmore. I happen to be a huge fan of the "No one leaves" scene from the deleted footage. I would've loved to see the scene here, though I acknowledge it wouldn't have made much sense for Non to have the cop car light in this cut, given that Zod blew the car to bits. From an editing standpoint, it made more sense not to include the sequence.

I do question a cut here. Jumping directly from the Texas footage to the destruction of Rushmore seems jarring; transitional footage is needed. I'd actually leave in the Lester bit where the human General says "I answer only to the president" in Texas.

Now we have a motivation for the villains wrecking Rushmore - it's a warning to the President. Next, Zod et al arrive in Washington. Use the Selutron version of battle. Omit the Selutron version of "I answer only the president." We already know that; have Zod smash the Whitehouse.

I also have to say that Jimbo's hybrid Jor-El and Lara depowering scene is too good not to use; the existing Brando depowering just doesn't do it for me. A hybrid Lester/DC scene brings in some emotion that's lost in the DC cut, the source of the depowering scene used here.

This brings me to Supes has a seizure while getting his power back. Yuck, yuck, yuck it looks so stupid (the fault of the source footage). Rather than have Jor El turn into a mask; I'd simply flood the room with light. Cut to Clark passed out. It also means not reusing the same musical again for the umpteenth time.

The costume change for the "No Junkyard Reveal" used here is too jarring; the sequence simply doesn't work. I like the idea of the sequence ending on a triumphant note but I think more is gained by leaving the audience in suspense.

From here on in, things are good, with DC, RIC and Lester footage used well.

I did question the sound cues towards the end. The music ends too abruptly when Supes delivers the flag. I'd cut the flag delivery completely. Alternatively, I'd keep the flag (after finding a way to animate the fountain) and cut straight to credits. Otherwise , the new ending works beautifully. Lois knows his secret, Supes is ready for his third adventure and the iconic image of Supes changing in the alley is preserved without using the idiotic Paris sequence.

Overall, this cut is excellent. Some of the errors I've attributed to it are the problems with the source footage. However, some work is needed on transitions and some emotional moments are lost in the choice of footage. That said, it's a neat cut and deserves a lot of credit.

Congratulations!

[TylerDurden389]

Hi Snoop,

Thank you VERY MUCH for the compliments. I'm glad you enjoyed it. So far the response for my cut has been positive from every person I sent a copy out to. I'm especially glad that you like a lot of the choices I made. Knowing that my new ideas work better than either version really means a lot to me. For the things you didn't like, I'll explain myself as best I can.

I like the idea of starting the movie like that after the opening credits. I agree with everything you said, however I didn't wanna start the film on THAT sad of a note lol. I wouldn't be surprised if Selutron's version actually opens like that. No villains trial, no S1 recap. I know in his version this scene is supposed to happen BEFORE the opening credits. I will say this though, I'm actually glad you brought this up because I originally planned on having Supes' scream and WHOOSH as he flies away during the credits, but I felt it might've been too "out there", ya know? I still have it saved if you want me to post it online for you to see.

I DID use the "Feed the babies" scene in the earlier drafts of my cut. The segue from Superman saving Ms. Teschmaker and crossing his arms to Perry reading the paper works excellent. Like you said, tough call.

I also understand what you mean about cutting at Clark saying "Darn" and Lois calculating, etc.. But I've seen pretty much EVERY fan cut of Superman 2 at this point and there were a few fan cuts that used this idea, and it simply didn't work for me.

About Sel's Lex at the FOS scene, I DID plan on doing the same thing I did with Sel's "post time travel recap" scene, which is use the dvd for any unaltered shots, but I felt the jumps would've been even more distracting. I may not have totally removed the Eve and toilet bit, but I did remove "that was 2 days ago" as it's a continuity error that no other fan cutter fixed.

I love your idea for Lex killing Eve. It reminds me of something I read somewhere where someone wrote dialogue along the lines of "Did you ever wanna be a bear Ms. Teschmaker?" and he throws her off the snowmobile, leaving her to die in the cold.

It seems I'm the only one who doesn't have a problem with the "Jewish" line lol. Almost every fan cut I've seen omits this line, but it causes errors with the audio, and for me that's more of a problem than the old lady's remark.

I agree with your feelings for the pink bear scene. CAM sent me some of his revisions for his cut and he edited the scene beautifully. I suggest PM-ing him about it.

About the transition to Mt. Rushmore, now that I think about it, I should've used the shot of them flying over the mountains and THEN Mt. Rushmore.

Yeah the "No Junkyard Reveal" is probably the worst continuity error in my cut. I've seen another fan cut where they actually re-use the shot from S1 after Kal-el's "training" (when he first flys past the camera). For the sake of ending the scene on an uplifting note, it works for me, errors and all.

The music does end too abruptly when Supes returns the flag, but I honestly couldn't find a better way to transition to the next scene. If I had found a way to use the "Tower of Pisa" scenes from S3 (more specifically the first scene where he straightens it on purpose), I would've kept the music going and have Supes fix the tower while the music played out. THEN cut to the DP for the last scene.

[TylerDurden389]

Ok, I've thought about this. Instead of making the name of my cut focus on what the story has, how about what it doesn't have? I'm thinking something along the lines of "The No New Powers Cut", "The No Camp Cut" (or non-camp cut), or "The Lester-Light cut". Other than that the only good idea I have is "The No Recycled Ending Cut". Since I don't use the amnesia kiss OR the time travel ending. I think that one has the most promise, but overall I think they're all pretty good. Questions? Comments? Suggestions?

[crazy_asian_man]

Hm...
I like the "No Camp Cut".