Just finished my fan cut of S2

[Jimbo]

My first cut was the "No Orange Juice Cut".

[Knight]

Seems like this was the place to post my details of Superman II -my cut.

Here goes...

Firstly, STM...I had Superman sending XK101 into space and exploding thus releasing the villans (used Lester's footage) and took out Supes turning the world back,I hated that here.

Opening WB logo and Reeve tribute,-no recap-directly to opening credits.

Donner Cut Daily Planet opening and Lois jump.
Lester Cut Prison scene. (Even though it's still Donner footage,edited by Lester,cut out all the awful toilet humour)
DC Nasa and Moon.
LC Prison escape (again,tighter editing and no toilet humour)
DC Niagra,Lex and Eve fortress, (took out Jor-El's ''trees...'' lines and that awful ''I've found it,I think'' and toilet flush-what was Thau thinking!?)
DC Niagra rescue and Lois reaction,Lex and Eve go south.
LC Villan's land,cut after Ursa's ''I have powers beyond reason here''-exterior shot of Niagra Hotel,-from Lois saying ''Not only have I lost my mind.''etc etc,Superman is revealed,all the way to the end of that scene. Used a shot of villans flying from later on in the LC.
DC Superman and Lois to fortress. DC all the way to end of de-powering scene. (I tried to edit DC and LC scenes and like cam,I hate the way they both filmed them differently)
LC White House attack,(again,tighter editing and more sinister,hated Ursa's ''What a backward planet this must be'') Drive to Diner.
DC Diner fight.
LC Lex at White House/Clark's return to the fortress,scene cuts to Donner's footage once Clark turns away from the burned out control panel and Green crystal lights up.
DC DP up until The Villans arrive.
LC all scenes in DP with Villans and the following fight,I tried in earnest to use some of Thau's stuff but the sound effects really bothered me and that awful ''I'm not a coward,Zod'')
DC after bus crashes into Supes and the people fight back.
LC Villans land back in Perry's office up until ''Let us take his favourite...''
DC Flying to fortress/inside of fortress,chamber switch etc all the way to Lois and Superman fly from fortress, edited out Supes destroying fortress. After Lois says here line on the balcony,I took the world turning back scene from STM (took out damn burst and Lois car coming up from out of ground etc and nothing of Thau's backward footage,also) and had a continuous shot of Supes turning world back. Shot then goes directly to Donner's Metropolis/DP scene ending on ''Superman Takes Day Off!''
LC Superman flying the flag and President apology and end on fly by credits.

As you can see I pretty much went with the original idea here with how I edited STM and used the turning world back for the ending of II.

What do you guys think?

dickiedonner80

[Jimbo]

Good choices.

Personally for the depowering, I made a hybrid of Lester and Donner. Beginning is all Lester, and then after he finds the crystal, I cut to Donner. I was able to darken the scene and make it green so that it matched the Lester version. If you have editing software that lets you change the brightness and color, then you can make them look the same.

[Knight]

I tried many attempts before finaly settling with what I have now. I originally had Lester's start in DP,heavily edited Paris bomb scene etc. But I couldn't stand the dour Cinematography of the Paris setting. Had Lois jumping into waterfall too.

But I decided to run with Donner's DP start and jump,so the Niagra jump went,naturally.

I couldn't no longer watch any cut of the film knowing what Donner originally wanted to do and Lester's over the top humour was too much, So I decided,like many of you to do my own edit.

[super11771]

I can send you some blank DVDS if you make me a copy.. I can also trade with you s well.

[e-mail]

[Knight]

I'm down on technology at the moment,but I will keep you posted and would be happy to send you a copy. Glad you like what I have done.

[EvilSupes]

It's kinda hit and miss with trying to edit together Lester and Donner. The footage quality is too noticeable as is the audio and use of shots - it just looks too different. The ony real way to ever make the perfect cut would be to use a remastered Lester footage... but like that's ever going to happen...

[Knight]

I totally agree Supes,it was a b_stard trying to cut the two together. But am happy with what I managed to do.

I also learned quite a bit about editing and manipulating film,scenes and cuts etc. Would like to use the music and ''bye bye baby'' from Lester's footage over Donner's DP jump because it's bit more dramatic.

main problems was with the different lighting,cutting out sloppy pacing,all that toilet/Lester humour. I hope that we will be treated to a 'Final Cut',however unlikely.

But it's interesting to see other peoples' cuts and what scenes they use and leave out etc.

[TylerDurden389]

You can definitely do that Dickiedonner80. I did that for my cut and it worked out perfectly with a little bit of editing. All you gotta do is start the music right after Lois says "Get the picture?" The music fits perfectly in Donner's DP jump scene. The music hits all the right notes as she's saying "Tall...broad shoulders...dark hair...".

It takes a little bit of clever editing right before the jump. I removed "You wouldn't let me die Superman" and did it like this. When Clark puts the paper down, I cut to Lois hunched over the window, but before she speaks, I cut to the Reeve close-up and put "bye bye baby" there, and then cut to her jumping. When Clark runs over to look, I cut to him already running through the office. I saved the shot of him running to the window for AFTER he saves her. This way I could eliminate the Reeve double for one of the 2 shots. Oh and you have to edit the music a it to in order to get the timing right for the jump.

One thing I did was, I used one of Kidder's screams from Superman 1 because I didn't like that "stock" scream Thau used for her when she's falling. Too high pitched (sounds nothing like her), and of course, I've heard it a thousand times before in other films/tv shows/cartoons. I ended up using a lot of Margo's screams from the Niagra jump scene. With some clever editing you can "mask" the sound of the water with the music.

The only thing you need to be wary of is, if you make the music too loud, you can't hear the dialogue. What I did was I took Reeve's dialogue from the Niagra jump when he says "You think, I'm, Superman?" and dubbed it over Reeve saying the same line in the Donner scene. What I mean is, I dubbed Reeve with his own voice using Lester's take instead of Donner's.

I'd love to post a quick clip on youtube to show you (among other things I did), but I'm already on strike 2 with their copyright laws and if I get in trouble again, my account=gone.

[Knight]

Very interesting,Tyler. I like the idea of how you dubbed Reeve's own dialogue from the LC over his reaction from the DC,and have him run to the window and do away with the double and that awful line Thau used.-Very good.

I see what you mean in regards to using the more dramatic cue from the LC before Lois takes the jump and using her scream from STM and done away with that scream Thau opted for (!!)

If you could PM me the scene(s) That would be appreciated.

WB should have got 'The Donner Cut' right in the first instance we wouldn't have to become home film editors. Ba'h to copyright!!

[TylerDurden389]

I'm gonna set up an account on vimeo and put up some clips. I've actually dubbed Reeve with his own voice in other parts as well. Specifically the scene where he calls out to his father when he returns to the fortress to get his powers back. As I said earlier, I think the real reason some of us still prefer the Lester re-powering scene over the Donner scene is because of the delivery of the lines. Yes, Reeve's voice cracks when he shouts "FATHER!!" in the DC. So I dubbed him over himself. As well as some of the other lines. You'll see.

**Update** I made a video and uploaded it on Vimeo, but there's no sound in certain parts, there's no music in the parts where I added music, and there's Donner and Tom's commentary in certain scenes. I tried making an alternate mp4video instead of an mpeg, but Vimeo won't allow me to upload another video due to reaching my max space. I've tried deleting the bad video but I don't get the delete option on the page like the sites guide says so. It was there the first time I watched it and I hit the delete option, but the video is still there.

[Knight]

Any chance of a link? I have tried looking but can't find anything.

[TylerDurden389]

www.vimeo.com/12934183

Here's a rundown of why I made these specifc changes There's plenty of other edits I've done in my fan edit, but the ones shown in this video are the major edits I've done. And here's why I did them.

1. Feed the babies scene - I LOVE the segue of that look on Hackman's face, to the look on Reeve's face to the cutaway to the paper showing what inevitably happened. Sure it re-hashes the ending of part one, but it shows it in a different way. Sorta like what Selutron did with his "post-time travel" scene that shows Superman stopping both missiles after going back in time.

2. Lois takes the plunge music added to Donner's scene. Reeve dub from Niagra scene. Lois scream from part 1 (the part when she's falling after Supes accidentally drops her). The "blur" clips are from CAM's fan edit, but I added the "whoosh" sounds from when Supes flys away after dropping Jimmy off in S1. I sped up the "whoosh" sound for each shot depending on how quick it is. The Lois screams are from when she's in the river, and the last scream is when she nearly falls off of Non as they fly toward the FOS (the scream is from the Lester version, as the Donner Cut version has a different scream which is NOT Margot Kidder). The music and the "blowing sound" that Reeve is emitting is audio taken from Selutron's "post time travel" clip (the part where he has Supes suck in and blow out the huge mushroom cloud after the first missile explodes). Lastly, Clark shouting "Lois!!" when she looks up is from the blank bullets scene. So even though we still see the Reeve double, we don't hear it. I was seriously tempted to go to that very building and take a picture of it from the ground and use it in my edit (that way I could avoid the Reeve double entirely), but alas I never got around to it.

3. I never liked the bellboy, so I edited him out, and faded out the sound of the water as I fade in Reeve and Kidder talking, cutting to the inside as soon as she opens the drapes. It's important to have a sound effect when cutting from one location to the next (more on this later).

4. My cut uses all of Selutron's scenes. However, any shots in his videos that are not edited, I replaced with the actual dvd footage (muted with Sel's audio). The best example is the "post time travel' sequence, as there only about 30 seconds in the entire 6 minute video that are edited by him. I also added in the shot of Eve walking away, as well as the shot of Lex thinking hard when Jor-el "drops the bomb".

5. Niagra rescue - Superman saves him much faster. Also, the new shot of Supes flying is from CAM's cut.

6. Villains arrive - No snake bite scene here. Zod already established the knowledge of their powers while on the moon. Added music. After disposing of the 2 cops (they don't show up in any other scenes) they immediately go to the hick town and start causing havoc. Edited it down to cut out the humor, added Thorne music from when they're on Krypton when Zod snaps the crystal in half.

7. Slight zoom in when Zod points his finger to avoid the finger "beam". New music added to the entire scene.

8. Superman explains his past - Added music from S1 here (the scene where he takes off his glasses and almost tells Lois who he is). I couldn't do anything about Lois acting more freaked out by Superman (as opposed to helplessly in love with him as Donner would've done it), but I felt adding this music helped out the scene more.

9. Depowering - Re-arranged the dialogue to be more in tone with Lester's depowering. It gets to the point much quicker. I also didn't like how Superman kept bowing his head, the shots of Jor-el went on too long, and that uncomfortable silence where no one says anything. So I re-arranged the reaction shots as well. Dubbed Reeve's "I Love her" from Lester, as well as the music. The shot of Jor-el disappearing is from Jimbo's cut. I changed the color so that the background was still blue instead of Red (since that reaction shot is for after Supes goes in the chamber, but in my cut he disappears before), which is why Jor-el's face is green. Thau did a terrible job here, as Brando is there in one shot, and gone the next. So I just had him disappear first. Also didn't like that awkward silence where Reeve is just standing there looking at Jor-el before he enters the chamber, so I axed that as well. Oh, and the new shots of Lois in the nightgown ( as opposed to Supes shirt) were done by CAM.

10. Lovers in bed - The shot of the villains destroying the Washington monument is from another fan cut (can't remember which) where they added in eye beams. I added in the shot of the monument hitting the ground (from Mars Attacks, again, thanks to CAM). The shots of Supes and Lois in bed is from both cuts. I noticed the Lois closes her eyes in Lester's shot, so I showed Donner's shot where her eyes are open, and timed it so that as she's closing them we cut from one shot, to the next shot. However, Donner's shot is shorter, and thus that weird "fade" where I go from Donner's shot, to Lester's.

11. Clark reconsiders - I preferred Margo's delivery in Donner's cut, but preferred Reeve's lines from Lester's. So I matched them up.

12. Repowering - Ok, the last clip showed Clark walking through the snow (after the Diner scene), but now we see him still walking AFTER we see the DP scene. I did a fade after the truck passes Clark on the highway, to the white house for the Lex and villains scene. Then I do Lester's cutaway of "Australia". I prefer the Lester version of this DP scene than Donner's. Mainly because I wanted that fade of Lois saying "better than anybody", to Clark still trudging through the snow. The new shots were made by CAM, but the birds eye shot of the snow I got from youtube. I wanted to make it seem like Clark really had to walk a lot to get back to the FOS. Thau felt it was a good idea to fade from the truck passing him, to Clark already back at the FOS. Guess the fortress isn't too far from I-15 now is it? lol.

13. "Father...I failed" - This is where I dubbed Reeve with his own voice. Again, better delivery. I also cut out the entire line about "trading my birthright, submission, your enemies, etc.."

14. Added Thorne music for crystal reveal. Feels more epic IMO, especially at the very end. Also added "crystal being placed in" sound effect.

15. "I uh..." - Again, better line delivery. Oh, and obviously, changed the color of the fortress to match Lester's "dark green" tone (even though none of Lester's shots are used here). The shots for after Clark places the crystal in (that are still green in color) were done by Jimbo. He obviously did a better job than I did.

16. Repowered - Pedalero's "No Junkyard Reveal". He was gracious enough to send me the original file, so I had perfect picture quality. I added the music when Superman first flies past the camera in S1. The 1st shot of him flying is from S4 (when he consults the elders), 2nd shot is from S3 (power plant fire scene), 3rd shot is from S2 (Paris scene), and the last shot with the close-up is again from S3. I flipped the shot and zoomed in to avoid that huge frozen lake he's carrying. The "whooshes" are again from the scene in S1 when Supes flies away after dropping off Jimmy.

17. Added miniature shot from Donner Cut for when Supes arrives.

18. "Superman!!" Used Donner shot of Lois with Lester audio. Also did a little editing to avoid seeing the Bill Cosby portrait behind Zod (Perry's office looks different in Lester's cut. However, this works to my advatnage for the last scene of my cut. More on that later).

19. Metro battle - Used Donner Cut clips over Lester audio. If there's one thing Thau did do right, it's cleaning up the picture quality (though I didn't care for the blue "hue" he gave the FOS. Ruins continuity with part 1).

20. "No!! Don't do it!! The people!!" - probably the simplest edit in the entire project. Notice how again, Donner footage over Lester audio. Pretty much the entire sequence is like that (except for some shots that were cut by Thau in order to make the fight faster).

21. "I expect, better manners..." - another simple edit. Notice how Zod's voice is deeper here as well. Thanks to Veris for that one.

22. "Well then just, say that you love me" - In my cut Lois knows his secret. No time travel, no amnesia kiss. The villains being released because Supes went back in time and stopped the California missile first (again, my cut uses Selutron's clips) has taught Superman why "It is forbidden to interfere with human history", and thus he won't be abusing his powers for love a second time. This time Lois throwing down the ultimatum and him kissing her is his way of telling her "I do" in a roundabout way. I originally used the end of the "Love theme from Superman" here, at the end of the song where all the trumpets and horns come in and build to the grand finale and timed it for right when they kiss. Then I tried using a different part of the song. Ultimately, I felt this song works best. It's the music from S1 when young Clark says goodbye to his mother before heading north. The "You don't have to worry, I'll never tell--" is from Lester's scene when Supes brings Lois home, and "--anyone who you really are" is from the RIC audio. The zoomed shot of Perry is supposed to show that he sees them kissing, wonders why, then forgets about it and continues going about his business. Again, to further prove that Supes and Lois CAN have a relationship. The NYC skyline shot is from S4 when Lois interviews Superman at Lacy's apt., and obviously the shot of Supes flying is from S1. I'm actually thinking of going back to my older drafts where I used some footage of cars on a highway moving really fast as the sun sets and the moon rises (clips CAM gave me).

13. "I have seen some far away looks in my time..." the shot of Lois looking at him as he says this is my way of changing the context of the scene. By him saying that and her looking at him curiously, it's sorta like he's telling her an inside joke that only the two of them are in on. Sorta like he's poking fun of the fact that she knows who he is and what they've been through, and he's sort of "testing her" to see if she can handle knowing his secret. Thus the rest of the dialogue now has a new context. She knows his secret, but they are trying to play along with each other like everything is like it always was.

14. "You know you're really Super" - same as above. Him stopping and looking at her cautiously, and then her giving him the thumbs up is sorta like she's saying "Just messing with ya". So now Clark breathing out a sigh of relief also has a new context. The "ding" of the typewrite segue to Clark hitting the elevator button is good cutaway IMO (as I pointed out earlier with the cutaway to Lois opening the drapes at the hotel). I also had to cut out Jimmy talking about his "brand new camera" for obvious reasons.

15. A new mission - Cut out some of the dialogue here to make the scene move faster and give it more of a sense of urgency (as opposed to humor). Laureen doesn't say a word here. Added music from S3 for the ending. Added sounds of Metropolis streets as Clark runs over to the alley (from the shot of the guy selling his fresh fruit). First 3 flying shots are flipped shots from S1, 4th shot is from Lester's cut when Supes flies off to Paris, last 2 shots are from S3. "Woosh' sound is again from S1 after Supes drops off Jimmy. Richard Donner credit from S1, fade to Lester's S2 credits.

The reason I changed this ending is because I don't like simply re-hashing the fly by. Donner wouldn't have done it, and it was only done because they wanted to finish S2 on the cheap. The way I see it, the villains are powerless and in jail along with Lex, Lois is ok with knowing his secret. Everything is back as it should be, and now Superman is off to another adventure, doing what he was put here to do. THAT'S HOW YOU END THIS EPIC SAGA.

[Knight]

I really like what you have done with the edit of The DP scene,looping the audio from LC over DC,works great. It's much more gripping as soon as the music starts,using Reeve's ''you think I'm Superman'' from TLC is excellent,Lois' ''bye bye,baby'' cuts in perfectly with the jump too.

The screams from the water fall 'fall' are so much better than that stock sound Thau opted for. Liked Clark going to the window after she is rescued too.

Good work with the de-powering,again mixing both elements together. ''Father,I lover her''

After the re-powering I would like to cut from Jor-El fading away from Kal-El,have an exterior shot of the fortress then cut to inside the fortress from STM,and use the excellent 'flyby' scene. Superman returns!

Liked ''I expect better manners from my guests,Zod'' over the action of Superman stepping from the chamber.

[Knight]

Just a few after thoughts,here...

How about (if possible) fit in Lois' line ''if I'm wrong,you got yourself one heck of a story'' as she passes by Clark towards the window then have Clark saying, ''Lois,really. Your priceless'' (or what ever his line is) then followed by her jump...

...When Clark looks down at Lois from the DP window,would it not be possible to have him say ''oh,god!''-which Reeve says in TLC as he runs along the waterfront to Lois' aide? Then have Lois' reaction and passes out.

[TylerDurden389]

Thanks for the kind words. It's good to see that, even though we all have different ideas for what "works" when combining the scenes from these 2 movies, there are things that we almost unanimously agree on. This goes for all editors.

I see where you're going with these added lines. However, even though I haven't tried doing EXACTLY what you've suggested, I've done enough editing that I can already picture it in my head and...it doesn't look good. After the line "Willing to bet my life on it", Clark immediately responds "You are priceless, really", so there's no room to sneak it in. Also, the camera is on their faces, so even if I were to simply overdub, it wouldn't synch up.

As far as Clark's "Oh God", again I see where you're going. However, one argument that I've made (strictly my own opinion) is that Donner's Superman (and Clark) is not as bumbling as he is in Lester's. Sure you can argue that Donner said continuously on the commentary that he would've re-shot a lot of things, but one thing I don't think he would've done, was have Clark say anything. In my version the moment she jumps, he's GONE. IMO there's no need for Clark to say anything.

CAM actually did a decent job of using dialogue from the blank bullets scene, and overdubbed it for the Niagra jump. It's noticeable to us because we've dissected these films inside and out, but I don't think a casual observer would catch it as quickly. They're walking as they're talking, and half the time Reeve is facing away from the camera as he looks at Lois. So it...kinda works. I'd suggest PM-ing him and seeing if he could post the clip for you to see.

[Knight]

Yea,I see what you mean with those ideas. I have just had a look at TDC and see it wouldn't fit. But I definitely prefare your edit. I have watched that DP jump scene a couple of times,think it's great.

[TylerDurden389]

One thing I need to point out is, these clips are from my latest version of my fan edit. It's my 5th version. The one available for download on fanedit.org is my 3rd draft. So some of the things presented here are not in that version. I plan on uploading this updated version soon. I'm waiting for Booshman to release his updated S2 fan cut because his is going to have A LOT of great new added effects. So I'll be using those added shots and putting them in my cut (with his permission of course. If he says no, I'll make 2 version of my cut. One with his additions that is solely for myself, and one without his effects that I'll upload for mass consumption).

Also, with EvilSupes talking about doing an HD version of S2, I may have to go back and re-do nearly EVERYTHING using his HD version (again, with his permission, but if not, then I'll only use it for my own private copy).

[HOSNI]

This is yet another reminder of what talent needs to be recruited to revisit Donners SII.

Dude thats a great looking product.

Congratulations

[TylerDurden389]

Thanks for the kind words Hosni. That really means a lot. I'll admit I did use a lot of edit clips from other S2 fan cuts (mostly Selutron), but CAM let me use a few of his ideas. Veris had some great ideas as well. Jimbo let me use some of his shots too. Pedelaro's "No junkyard reveal" was a big deal. I've been waiting all month for Booshman to upload his revised cut because he's got a lot of things that are gonna go in as well.

[EvilSupes]

Are any of these cuts gonna make their way over to fanedit.org? I think it would be great if they did - for all the fans and interested parties.

[crazy_asian_man]

Never get tired of hearing about ways to improve the cut. Never.

On the flip side, man, it is SOOOO tiring to actually EXECUTE an edit cleanly with what we have available. *blah*.

Keep up the good fight for the best Superman II cut possible sir!

[TylerDurden389]

Jun 30, 2010 11:05:28 GMT -5 EvilSupes said:

Are any of these cuts gonna make their way over to fanedit.org? I think it would be great if they did - for all the fans and interested parties.

Booshman's revised cut will definitely be on fanedit.org as he has a thread on it there in the "in the works" section. My 3rd draft is already on the site in the "unapproved section", and my next revision will be on there AFTER I've seen both his cut, and your HD version, and have utilized them for mine (with your permission of course). TBH I'm only concerned with whichever Lester scenes you use for your HD cut. I think the picture quality in the Donner Cut is fine as is.

Someone on the SupermanII.com message board posted a few screencaps with much better HD picture quality that he did himself, and I gotta say, Lester's scenes would be SO much more tolerable with better picture.

[Knight]

www.supermanii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3343

The restored pictures look really good,hope WB do release S2 on blu ray,probs wont be until Nolans' Superman is released.

It really bothers me that WB clearly opted to go ''Cheaper by the Sequel'',really annoying, how they treated Donner and all his,Manc's ideas. Thank god for Chris and Margo for keeping it real.

[Knight]

Damn! Just watched the deleted scene on TDC,the one were the villains enter the fortress,Zod has a great line ''Son of Jor-El,prepare to die!!''-I realised that I could have used that line in place of ''fly it!'' as Zod flies back instructing Non and Ursa to hurl the coach at Superman.

Or when Zod is about to throw that wall at Superman at the start of the fight scene.