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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 12, 2015 14:44:43 GMT -5
MOS was a big disappointment- but not nearly as big a disappointment as the RDC.
With Snyder directing and Goyer writing, both were a question mark. While there are big sections and some ideas I like, I was otherwise letdown, too. A fan cut would be interesting, though.
In regards to RDC's disappointment- If I never saw the ABC/IRC cut of SII, I think I might not have been as disappointed as I was.
Just too many bad choices all the way around. I might have rather they cleaned up the deleted scenes and let fans fix it, given how many bad choices editorially there were.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 12, 2015 23:34:47 GMT -5
And now Goyers nowhere to be found with the DCEU promotion and films. Looks like somebody had to take the fall.
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 14, 2015 10:18:08 GMT -5
Gandy had huge expectations for both MoS and the Donner cut. He was let down and let down HARD.  Was the Donner cut responsible for altering him? |
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crown
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Post by crown on Sept 14, 2015 16:19:35 GMT -5
I think he was never quite the same after the Donner Cut broke his heart. I remember how excited he used to be truly believing that a 80-90% completed Donner take was out there. When he found out the truth he went into self-imposed exile leaving lesser men to take his place  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 14, 2015 18:48:36 GMT -5
I think he was never quite the same after the Donner Cut broke his heart. I remember how excited he used to be truly believing that a 80-90% completed Donner take was out there. When he found out the truth he went into self-imposed exile leaving lesser men to take his place I never expected that 80-90% was out there.... but I was horrified that down the line, choices were made by Thau that made the International cut a far better version of the Donner cut. |
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 15, 2015 2:35:49 GMT -5
Who was responsible for starting the lie about there being an almost complete cut? Was it Donner himself?
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crown
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Post by crown on Sept 15, 2015 4:00:33 GMT -5
Who was responsible for starting the lie about there being an almost complete cut? Was it Donner himself? Gandy convinced himself that a 90% cut was out there... Donner didn't help by implying that he had finished the blank bullets scene. Gandy kept trumpeting that ALL fortress scenes had been shot as well which was unfortunately the result of wishful thinking and flawed conjecture. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 16, 2015 14:15:39 GMT -5
Who was responsible for starting the lie about there being an almost complete cut? Was it Donner himself? I never heard 90%. I knew the Brando stuff was the holy grail, because of the rights issue- plus the DP jump (because there was a magazine that had the pics to that sequence)... but I had a hunch that all the big action beats Donner directed got onscreen- it wasn't until the entertainment tonight clip with the statue of liberty and Supes punching Non, did I imagine maybe more got shot- Sadly, I was right. What I didn't expect was for Lois' closeups NOT to be shot with the depowering scene. Was a giant bummer for the bookend Honeymoon haven scenes not to have been shot after all (the one without a screentest is funnier)- anyhow, the RDC to me was a disappointment because of the lack of Donner footage- but secondly was the editing which made it inferior in ways to the Lester theatrical/ ABC version. |
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crown
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Post by crown on Sept 16, 2015 19:40:37 GMT -5
Why did Lester switch the Clark and Lois personalities in his Niagra scenes?
In Donner's take Clark is bitter and Lois is lively and spirited... when Lester took on the scene Lois is the bitter one and Clark is positive.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 16, 2015 22:04:04 GMT -5
Why did Lester switch the Clark and Lois personalities in his Niagra scenes? In Donner's take Clark is bitter and Lois is lively and spirited... when Lester took on the scene Lois is the bitter one and Clark is positive. Exactly.... while the switch is plausible--- it makes Lois such an unappealing character, that it makes you NOT root for the love story. Also- there's a bit in the Mank script, where Lois is in tears over what she did when Supes gets depowered- not shot by Donner (unfortunately), but in the Mank script. |
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crown
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Post by crown on Sept 16, 2015 22:40:22 GMT -5
We seriously need to get Richard Lester to open up about this. We, the fans demand answers.
Richard Lester directed (arguably) more Superman movies than anyone else ever has and he owes the fans an explanation for some of his choices!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 17, 2015 23:42:00 GMT -5
We seriously need to get Richard Lester to open up about this. We, the fans demand answers. Richard Lester directed (arguably) more Superman movies than anyone else ever has and he owes the fans an explanation for some of his choices! I think his boasting on the documentary on the making of Superman II - and his subsequent silence on the topic decades later speaks volumes. I'm sure that he's aware on some level of how bad he was portrayed in the documentaries... but then again, many artists are cut-throat and self-serving. Lester HAD to morph everything to his own aesthetics, and take full credit for the good scenes that Donner directed. IMO- totally unecessary (plus, his additions were not an improvement). Lester did some great films in his time- but desperation for a comeback probably fueled his need to (essentially) steal credit for Donner's work and have a hit. Pity. He could have taken the higher road, finished SII the way Mank had scripted- respect the work, then have had total freedom to do SIII anyways. *sigh* |
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 4, 2015 15:05:23 GMT -5
I think the only hope for Superman now is to get an independent studio to get Routh back and do a "Never Say Never Again" type of movie.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 4, 2015 17:58:08 GMT -5
If the Salkinds had been successful mAybe something like that might have been possible but not now. WBs too far in for this all to fail now. Suicide Squads in the can and WW is filming. If it's not successful WBs best bet is to let this current shared universe wind down wait a decade and start fresh. Rethink everything. Mine DCs entire history and not just Nolan's films.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 6, 2015 0:12:34 GMT -5
If the Salkinds had been successful mAybe something like that might have been possible but not now. WBs too far in for this all to fail now. Suicide Squads in the can and WW is filming. If it's not successful WBs best bet is to let this current shared universe wind down wait a decade and start fresh. Rethink everything. Mine DCs entire history and not just Nolan's films. If everything does fall on its face, would be HILARIOUS if they gave Kevin Feige a call and try to work out a deal like Sony did with Spiderman. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 6, 2015 12:51:49 GMT -5
You mean WB? LOL. heck would freeze over first but they'd be smart to ask for some advice behind closed doors. I'd like to see Fox being more open with working with Marvel...especially after the FF disaster.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 11, 2015 1:31:32 GMT -5
You mean WB? LOL. heck would freeze over first but they'd be smart to ask for some advice behind closed doors. I'd like to see Fox being more open with working with Marvel...especially after the FF disaster. The FF disaster has to be far, far worse than the Sony/Spiderman one. If Spiderman does fantastic business for Sony after this, it'd be fantastic if it sends a signal that putting down egos and figuring out what's best for the property --- might actually end up being great business, even if it means swallowing some humble pie. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 11, 2015 13:42:48 GMT -5
You mean WB? LOL. heck would freeze over first but they'd be smart to ask for some advice behind closed doors. I'd like to see Fox being more open with working with Marvel...especially after the FF disaster. The FF disaster has to be far, far worse than the Sony/Spiderman one. If Spiderman does fantastic business for Sony after this, it'd be fantastic if it sends a signal that putting down egos and figuring out what's best for the property --- might actually end up being great business, even if it means swallowing some humble pie. I call it the three strikes and your out outcome. Marvels had to wait no more than three failures from other studios before they get to use their properties in their own films. Punisher, the FF, and Spiderman all had three dissapojnting films back to back. The difference with Spidey is Sony at least proved it could work as a film. With Daredevil, Blade, and Ghost rider it just took two failures. Stidios tend to give up for a while if they get two or three misfires back to back. Hulks had two before Marvel got some more control of the character even though they produced TIH with Universal. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 10, 2016 11:03:47 GMT -5
The tone deaf kissing scene in MOS
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 11, 2016 15:23:52 GMT -5
How did Cavill get so big on MoS? You can see his face changes shape quite dramatically between certain scenes. The part where he comes home to visit (before the Zod tv broadcast), he looks very thin and his face is quite long and bony. In other scenes its a bit puffy.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 12, 2016 13:45:14 GMT -5
How did Cavill get so big on MoS? You can see his face changes shape quite dramatically between certain scenes. The part where he comes home to visit (before the Zod tv broadcast), he looks very thin and his face is quite long and bony. In other scenes its a bit puffy. Probably a result of shooting scenes out or order...? |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Apr 17, 2016 5:09:13 GMT -5
Who was responsible for starting the lie about there being an almost complete cut? Was it Donner himself? I never heard 90%. I knew the Brando stuff was the holy grail, because of the rights issue- plus the DP jump (because there was a magazine that had the pics to that sequence)... but I had a hunch that all the big action beats Donner directed got onscreen- it wasn't until the entertainment tonight clip with the statue of liberty and Supes punching Non, did I imagine maybe more got shot- Sadly, I was right. What I didn't expect was for Lois' closeups NOT to be shot with the depowering scene. Was a giant bummer for the bookend Honeymoon haven scenes not to have been shot after all (the one without a screentest is funnier)- anyhow, the RDC to me was a disappointment because of the lack of Donner footage- but secondly was the editing which made it inferior in ways to the Lester theatrical/ ABC version. In the 1978 Making Of STM book by Michael Petrou there is an instance where Donner, Salkind and Spengler go to Washington to check out the then relatively new IMAX technology.Shooting had already begun but they were still experimenting with different filming techniques. I always wondered where that shot of the villains approaching and crashing into the roof of the white house came from. Was it stock footage that any WB movie production could use....or was it lensed by Donner and his crew when they went to Washington for this IMAX demo?! And if so......was any other Washington DC footage shot by Donner. Or was that White House shot done by Lester's crew......seems like a heck of a production budget waste.....send a film crew from London to Washington.....just to get one shot of the White House! |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Apr 17, 2016 5:14:37 GMT -5
The tone deaf kissing scene in MOS LOL....but spot on. earlier in MOS .....Jorel specifically tells Supes:" you can save them Kal.....you can save them all" Oh dear......not only did he not save them all.....he did not give a flying fuck about not saving them. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 17, 2016 18:24:18 GMT -5
I never heard 90%. I knew the Brando stuff was the holy grail, because of the rights issue- plus the DP jump (because there was a magazine that had the pics to that sequence)... but I had a hunch that all the big action beats Donner directed got onscreen- it wasn't until the entertainment tonight clip with the statue of liberty and Supes punching Non, did I imagine maybe more got shot- Sadly, I was right. What I didn't expect was for Lois' closeups NOT to be shot with the depowering scene. Was a giant bummer for the bookend Honeymoon haven scenes not to have been shot after all (the one without a screentest is funnier)- anyhow, the RDC to me was a disappointment because of the lack of Donner footage- but secondly was the editing which made it inferior in ways to the Lester theatrical/ ABC version. In the 1978 Making Of STM book by Michael Petrou there is an instance where Donner, Salkind and Spengler go to Washington to check out the then relatively new IMAX technology.Shooting had already begun but they were still experimenting with different filming techniques. I always wondered where that shot of the villains approaching and crashing into the roof of the white house came from. Was it stock footage that any WB movie production could use....or was it lensed by Donner and his crew when they went to Washington for this IMAX demo?! And if so......was any other Washington DC footage shot by Donner. Or was that White House shot done by Lester's crew......seems like a heck of a production budget waste.....send a film crew from London to Washington.....just to get one shot of the White House! Wow, my posts miss a lot of syllables (and apparently words) when I'm typing it on the ipad... didn't realize this until you quoted me and I re-read it. Suprised it made much sense to anyone. Anyhow, I meant I thought there was/ HOPED there was more action footage shot by Donner for SII for the Metro battle beyond the 'punch' that Supes gives Non.... but it looks like that and the Statue of Liberty kick was pretty much it. (Still, better than nothing, I suppose...) I imagine that the White House shot was stock footage--- otherwise, I agree- what a production budget waste. But then again... I also assumed that the bit where Supes finds the 'rare' flower was shot in an amusement park in California- rather than actually being shot halfway around the world with a skeleton crew and Reeve. Credit for money to make it look big. Lost credit for shooting it in such a cheap way it looks small. I liked the IDEA of Superman traveling around the world to find a rare flower for Lois- but the way the location scenes were shot, most of the time it made it look like it was a 'made for tv' movie. (i.e.- comparing the location shooting in the IRC of STM when young Clark is walking towards the Arctic vs. the two or three single shots of Reeve against the snow backdrop by Lester) |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 19, 2016 13:37:59 GMT -5
In the 1978 Making Of STM book by Michael Petrou there is an instance where Donner, Salkind and Spengler go to Washington to check out the then relatively new IMAX technology.Shooting had already begun but they were still experimenting with different filming techniques. I always wondered where that shot of the villains approaching and crashing into the roof of the white house came from. Was it stock footage that any WB movie production could use....or was it lensed by Donner and his crew when they went to Washington for this IMAX demo?! And if so......was any other Washington DC footage shot by Donner. Or was that White House shot done by Lester's crew......seems like a heck of a production budget waste.....send a film crew from London to Washington.....just to get one shot of the White House! Wow, my posts miss a lot of syllables (and apparently words) when I'm typing it on the ipad... didn't realize this until you quoted me and I re-read it. Suprised it made much sense to anyone. Anyhow, I meant I thought there was/ HOPED there was more action footage shot by Donner for SII for the Metro battle beyond the 'punch' that Supes gives Non.... but it looks like that and the Statue of Liberty kick was pretty much it. (Still, better than nothing, I suppose...) I imagine that the White House shot was stock footage--- otherwise, I agree- what a production budget waste. But then again... I also assumed that the bit where Supes finds the 'rare' flower was shot in an amusement park in California- rather than actually being shot halfway around the world with a skeleton crew and Reeve. Credit for money to make it look big. Lost credit for shooting it in such a cheap way it looks small. I liked the IDEA of Superman traveling around the world to find a rare flower for Lois- but the way the location scenes were shot, most of the time it made it look like it was a 'made for tv' movie. (i.e.- comparing the location shooting in the IRC of STM when young Clark is walking towards the Arctic vs. the two or three single shots of Reeve against the snow backdrop by Lester) The worst part is the shot of the White House at the end of SII is a f***ing STILL image. The fountain looks frozen. WTH? Couldn't they just reuse the same footage when Superman flies there? |
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