SII/III idea

[TylerDurden389]

I agree with you EvilSupes. I love what Selutron did so much that I never cared about loss in quality though. Anyone I've shown my fancut to never said anything either. Your idea is possible though, like you said. I have some bits and pieces from some dvds CAM gave me that show a lot of his finished and unfinished work. One of which was doing the exact same thing Sel did, but with the master copies themselves, so that the footage is perfect quality.

Me however, I use a very simple editing program, and I attempted Vegas only once and realized that I was sucked into this thing way too much already. When I was in the thick of it, I was working on my my cut all day, everyday. From 11am-5am. Only stopping to eat, go to the bathroom, and MAYBE shower every couple of day (it was winter time so I wasn't sweating).

That being said, if anyone has the skills and patience, please try to get some of Sel's work in there. I can mail you the dvds CAM sent me (as I have almost no use for them since they freeze up my comp.) so you can use them for ideas (or maybe use those files themselves). I can tell you ahead of time that the Army footage for the villains in D.C. is from the film "The Swarm".

However, one thing I do wanna point out EvilSupes, is that my favorite Sel scene, the "Post Time Travel' scene, I have made it ALMOST dvd quality by simply using my S1 dvd and syncing up the picture with Sel's audio. The only shots that aren't dvd quality are the shots where Sel did special effects. It's probably about 30 shots in the entire 6 minute scene. So if you or someone else can edit those few shots (like say, Supes getting thrown back and hitting the wall after the 1st missile explodes) then I'd say we're in business.

Also, just because the files are .MOV, doesn't mean we can't the sound in 5.1. One person I showed it to, who is VERY big on electronics and movies in general, asked me how I got the audio to be 5.1. I had no idea I did that, and I think Womble dvd video wizard just does it automatically.

Anyway I don't think doing Sel's edits would be too difficult. For the LEX at the FOS scene, all you have to do is paste Brando's head onto the body and add the crystal. For the "Supes returns to Metropolis" scene, it's simply a matter of adding Supes flying in the b.g, and changing the color of his suit from S3 when he walks and turns around. The blank bullets and D.C. scenes might be tricky though.

I don't wanna rule anything out until I've seen Booshman's update of his cut. If anyone here has seen the 10 minute preview he posted, you'll see he not only did his own take on turning back time, but he also has something in the works for the blank bullets, AND fixing Brando in the Lex scene (to make him closely resemble how he looked in part 1). Not to mention his removal of the cellaphone S and the finger beams, but keeping the scene intact. Oh and the S reveal for the re-powering. Which would make the "No junkyard reveal" clip obsolete.

[EvilSupes]

I would love to use as much of Selutron's work as possible, but I just wasn't convinced it would go together well with other footage that was clearly higher res. If it's possible, like you say, to dismantle his footage, and only take the FX shots and build the non-fx shots using DVD souced footage, then that's great - I never thought of doing it that way.

I agree about CAM's stuff by the way. He sent me some discs too showing some of his FX shots. Again they weren't that brilliant in quality, and were not anamorphic (maybe because he was still working on them, I am not sure) but it showed me that he could easily do what Selutron had done. In fact, I believe his Daily Planet part at the beginning was actually better than Selutron's, and that is a perfect example of what I mean by taking the template left from Selutron's work, and making it even better.

I had a quick look at Booshman's new cut over at the fanedit site. Certainly, his new alterations look promising. I am particularly interested in how he has changed the weird finger pointing beams into heat vision for the FOS fight. That is quite a big improvement. I always liked some of that Lester stuff, it's just that the way it was handled was absurd. The more shots of Reeve in his matured Superman look for the FOS, the better I think. I never liked the fact he was distinctly skinnier in some shots. To me, it doesn't look right. He looks more commanding and 'Superman' in the shots where he isn't in the middle of bulking up. It was ok for 1 or 2 shots in STM but for nearly a whole scene, where he is supposed to be standing up to the Zod and co, it looks a bit unconvincing. That's just my opinion however.

[TylerDurden389]

Sept 9, 2010 13:27:23 GMT -5 EvilSupes said:

I agree about CAM's stuff by the way.n fact, I believe his Daily Planet part at the beginning was actually better than Selutron's, and that is a perfect example of what I mean by taking the template left from Selutron's work, and making it even better.

You're referring to how CAM got the taxicab to hit Clark after walking out of the alleyway, and having Clark turn and look at the driver when he called him a "freak", right? I thought that was great to. However, the reason I didn't use it was, once again, I feel Lester took too many liberties. I don't care if it was written in the script when Donner was on board. It could've been handled better.

[EvilSupes]

Nah, I was referring to how CAM handles Lois falling from the window etc. That was much more interesting than Selutron's. It's been a while since I've seen it though.

[TylerDurden389]

I haven't seen his in a while either, but I used a lot of elements from his cut and integrated them into mine. Did you see my take on it?

www.vimeo.com/12934183

[crazy_asian_man]

I agree about CAM's stuff by the way. He sent me some discs too showing some of his FX shots. Again they weren't that brilliant in quality, and were not anamorphic (maybe because he was still working on them, I am not sure) but it showed me that he could easily do what Selutron had done. In fact, I believe his Daily Planet part at the beginning was actually better than Selutron's, and that is a perfect example of what I mean by taking the template left from Selutron's work, and making it even better.

I doubt I'll do any more fine-tuning on rotoscoping- It's too much time and effort for imperfect work. As you mentioned, it mainly is/was to show what COULD be done, in what context- if no real footage actually exists, what WB could do with a pro version of it, and if it does work from a story pov.

Thanks for the kind words on the DP sequence--- While I didn't care for some of Selutron's head-pastings in the DP section- there's a lot in that sequence that gave me ideas for my own- and to me- the main shots that I thought were important were (1) Clark running down the stairs- as they were also in the script- (and storyboards) and (2) the long shot of Lois landing on the awning. STM had long shots for all the major rescues and events, and even though it generally was only a couple of seconds, that helped show the scale of it..... and the scale of the DP jump in the RDC seemed major in the script version, but not on the RDC.

[TylerDurden389]

Sept 12, 2010 18:06:44 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I doubt I'll do any more fine-tuning on rotoscoping- It's too much time and effort for imperfect work.

Don't put yourself down CAM. You did some ambitious stuff man. I think if anything, small tweaks that don't take more than a full day of editing would be best. Some of the stuff you did was just too "out there" ya know? Making the Metro battle way too long and re-using the same 5-6 shots as the prime example.

However, a good example of fine tweaking was when you added Superman FLYING out of the FOS to get dinner, as opposed to simply walking out of frame. Granted it needed a little more work, but I imagine it couldn't take too long.

And I think I've said enough times how much I love what you did with the re-powering. Again, it needs more tweaking, but the foundation is there.

[EvilSupes]

Sept 12, 2010 18:06:44 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I agree about CAM's stuff by the way. He sent me some discs too showing some of his FX shots. Again they weren't that brilliant in quality, and were not anamorphic (maybe because he was still working on them, I am not sure) but it showed me that he could easily do what Selutron had done. In fact, I believe his Daily Planet part at the beginning was actually better than Selutron's, and that is a perfect example of what I mean by taking the template left from Selutron's work, and making it even better.

I doubt I'll do any more fine-tuning on rotoscoping- It's too much time and effort for imperfect work. As you mentioned, it mainly is/was to show what COULD be done, in what context- if no real footage actually exists, what WB could do with a pro version of it, and if it does work from a story pov.

Thanks for the kind words on the DP sequence--- While I didn't care for some of Selutron's head-pastings in the DP section- there's a lot in that sequence that gave me ideas for my own- and to me- the main shots that I thought were important were (1) Clark running down the stairs- as they were also in the script- (and storyboards) and (2) the long shot of Lois landing on the awning. STM had long shots for all the major rescues and events, and even though it generally was only a couple of seconds, that helped show the scale of it..... and the scale of the DP jump in the RDC seemed major in the script version, but not on the RDC.

Hey CAM, I am sorry if you were unable to achieve some things you set out to do, and that the time consumption and limitations from rotoscoping have been problematic. We all appreciate all your efforts with S2. You have inspired many of us, just like Selutron has, to try different things with S2.

Do you still have the uncompressed raw video files for your rotoscopes CAM? It's up to you, but I think releasing them to certain editors, or to everyone (your choice) for use in future edits would really allow people to create some neat stuff with your work. I mean, that's only if you feel you time is done with rotoscoping.


Or alternatively if you prefer, you could re-upload that video tutorial you made on rotoscoping for other editors to learn how you did the rotoscoping. I for one, definitely benefited from this when it was available.

[crazy_asian_man]

Hey CAM, I am sorry if you were unable to achieve some things you set out to do, and that the time consumption and limitations from rotoscoping have been problematic. We all appreciate all your efforts with S2. You have inspired many of us, just like Selutron has, to try different things with S2.

Do you still have the uncompressed raw video files for your rotoscopes CAM? It's up to you, but I think releasing them to certain editors, or to everyone (your choice) for use in future edits would really allow people to create some neat stuff with your work. I mean, that's only if you feel you time is done with rotoscoping.

Or alternatively if you prefer, you could re-upload that video tutorial you made on rotoscoping for other editors to learn how you did the rotoscoping. I for one, definitely benefited from this when it was available.

Thanks EvilSupes-- I never WANTED to do a fan cut....let alone rotoscoping.... but, it's a neat thing to do to at least give an idea of how a scene could be rethought/ reimagined.

Ideally, all the best ideas get picked up by Thau or Selutron or whoever might do an expanded recut and implemented in a professional manner.....

But, if not--- and WB doesn't want the extra dollars I'm sure we'd all be WILLING to sheck out for an expanded Donner version... then we're more/less stuck with doing our own fan cuts, if there's no other recourse.

As far as putting stuff out on the web unofficially..... I never felt comfortable with that. Giving out a couple of copies of personal fan cuts (or footage) to fans who already own the films, that's one thing.

I know that Selutron and Capedwonder probably went through the official channels to let the stuff be openly downloadable...... but if anyone really wanted some of the footage, they can always PM me and I'll share what I have, but I just worry too much about open downloads if it's not officially sanctioned. The formats unfortunately for the rotoscopes are all over the place. I was trying to learn the best way to match my tv/dvd player so that it didn't 'stretch' or 'shrink' when played back (even with playing with dvd player/tv options, things got weird on playback).... so no promises on the best raw files. They may need altering to fit one's own cut.

The idea of reloading the rotoscoping tutorials = sure, that sounds good, if youtube doesn't make me take it down /block it. (They've been blocking edit samples like crazy lately for me).

Anyhow, thanks again- and, pm me if you need anything in particular.

[crazy_asian_man]

Don't put yourself down CAM. You did some ambitious stuff man. I think if anything, small tweaks that don't take more than a full day of editing would be best. Some of the stuff you did was just too "out there" ya know? Making the Metro battle way too long and re-using the same 5-6 shots as the prime example.

Thanks Tyler, the Metro battle is an EXTREMELY tough thing for me to let go of shots. It's too much, I agree- but am not sure about the best way to trim down what I want. Also, stupid Lester only HAD one or two whole body 'flying shots' of the criminals at any one time! *sigh*

Anyhow....yeah..... I totally agree that the Metro stuff needs major trimming/re-thinking....

[EvilSupes]

Sept 13, 2010 15:03:18 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Hey CAM, I am sorry if you were unable to achieve some things you set out to do, and that the time consumption and limitations from rotoscoping have been problematic. We all appreciate all your efforts with S2. You have inspired many of us, just like Selutron has, to try different things with S2.

Do you still have the uncompressed raw video files for your rotoscopes CAM? It's up to you, but I think releasing them to certain editors, or to everyone (your choice) for use in future edits would really allow people to create some neat stuff with your work. I mean, that's only if you feel you time is done with rotoscoping.

Or alternatively if you prefer, you could re-upload that video tutorial you made on rotoscoping for other editors to learn how you did the rotoscoping. I for one, definitely benefited from this when it was available.

Thanks EvilSupes-- I never WANTED to do a fan cut....let alone rotoscoping.... but, it's a neat thing to do to at least give an idea of how a scene could be rethought/ reimagined.

Ideally, all the best ideas get picked up by Thau or Selutron or whoever might do an expanded recut and implemented in a professional manner.....

But, if not--- and WB doesn't want the extra dollars I'm sure we'd all be WILLING to sheck out for an expanded Donner version... then we're more/less stuck with doing our own fan cuts, if there's no other recourse.

As far as putting stuff out on the web unofficially..... I never felt comfortable with that. Giving out a couple of copies of personal fan cuts (or footage) to fans who already own the films, that's one thing.

I know that Selutron and Capedwonder probably went through the official channels to let the stuff be openly downloadable...... but if anyone really wanted some of the footage, they can always PM me and I'll share what I have, but I just worry too much about open downloads if it's not officially sanctioned. The formats unfortunately for the rotoscopes are all over the place. I was trying to learn the best way to match my tv/dvd player so that it didn't 'stretch' or 'shrink' when played back (even with playing with dvd player/tv options, things got weird on playback).... so no promises on the best raw files. They may need altering to fit one's own cut.

The idea of reloading the rotoscoping tutorials = sure, that sounds good, if youtube doesn't make me take it down /block it. (They've been blocking edit samples like crazy lately for me).

Anyhow, thanks again- and, pm me if you need anything in particular.

Yeah I got the impression you were never keen on making a cut with your work, hehe. Can't say I am too surprised after you were slaving over those rotoscopes.

I understand your concerns perfectly with making footage available. There has been a lot of weird stuff happening lately with fanedited videos on both youtube and other places. So I can see why you feel paranoid, I would too - in fact, I do with some of my own videos at times.

I think the best way to go then is to release that rotoscoping tutorial, since that way people can get on with whatever work they want and you are not tied to whatever a person decides to do. The reason why I keep saying this is because your tutorials are very easy to understand and are straight to the point. It makes learning it very easy and allows the editor to achieve fast results - it worked that way for me anyway. Plus, there just isn't any type of these tutorials out there for the type of stuff you did, that I can find. Most of it is all to do with masking and layers for things like graphics and steers people who want to do fanedit rotoscoping, in completely the wrong direction. I could be wrong, there *might* be ones out there that are simple and useful but I haven't found them.

[crazy_asian_man]

Yeah I got the impression you were never keen on making a cut with your work, hehe. Can't say I am too surprised after you were slaving over those rotoscopes.

I understand your concerns perfectly with making footage available. There has been a lot of weird stuff happening lately with fanedited videos on both youtube and other places. So I can see why you feel paranoid, I would too - in fact, I do with some of my own videos at times.

I think the best way to go then is to release that rotoscoping tutorial, since that way people can get on with whatever work they want and you are not tied to whatever a person decides to do. The reason why I keep saying this is because your tutorials are very easy to understand and are straight to the point. It makes learning it very easy and allows the editor to achieve fast results - it worked that way for me anyway. Plus, there just isn't any type of these tutorials out there for the type of stuff you did, that I can find. Most of it is all to do with masking and layers for things like graphics and steers people who want to do fanedit rotoscoping, in completely the wrong direction. I could be wrong, there *might* be ones out there that are simple and useful but I haven't found them.

Thanks the kudos on the tutorials EvilSupes, I put a good amount of effort into the tutorial, so I'm glad to hear that it seemed effective. I removed them awhile back, but soon as I can find them, I'll try putting them back up again.

Rotoscoping mainly eats up time like crazy, and who has that time to spare? Or the patience?
Given that, I applaud Selutron & Capedwonder for sharing the clips on the site for all to enjoy. 8 hours for two seconds was conservative, I can't imagine how many man-hours Selutron put into the bits he made.

[EvilSupes]

Sept 14, 2010 10:14:38 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Yeah I got the impression you were never keen on making a cut with your work, hehe. Can't say I am too surprised after you were slaving over those rotoscopes.

I understand your concerns perfectly with making footage available. There has been a lot of weird stuff happening lately with fanedited videos on both youtube and other places. So I can see why you feel paranoid, I would too - in fact, I do with some of my own videos at times.

I think the best way to go then is to release that rotoscoping tutorial, since that way people can get on with whatever work they want and you are not tied to whatever a person decides to do. The reason why I keep saying this is because your tutorials are very easy to understand and are straight to the point. It makes learning it very easy and allows the editor to achieve fast results - it worked that way for me anyway. Plus, there just isn't any type of these tutorials out there for the type of stuff you did, that I can find. Most of it is all to do with masking and layers for things like graphics and steers people who want to do fanedit rotoscoping, in completely the wrong direction. I could be wrong, there *might* be ones out there that are simple and useful but I haven't found them.

Thanks the kudos on the tutorials EvilSupes, I put a good amount of effort into the tutorial, so I'm glad to hear that it seemed effective. I removed them awhile back, but soon as I can find them, I'll try putting them back up again.

Rotoscoping mainly eats up time like crazy, and who has that time to spare? Or the patience?
Given that, I applaud Selutron & Capedwonder for sharing the clips on the site for all to enjoy. 8 hours for two seconds was conservative, I can't imagine how many man-hours Selutron put into the bits he made.

Hey no problem.

I was happy you were keen to share your knowledge. Most editors, I come across, who are good at doing something, fail to share their knowledge, despite people asking how they did it. I think it's important, we all help each other because it allows for inspiration and more creative ideas.

Selutron was indeed very dedicated to his work, but I just feel, again like most editors out there who are good at particular edits, they don't seem keen on communicating/working closely with the audience - which I feel is necessary in making something people would like to watch. This was part of the problem with Mr Thau, and I feel is the reason why the Donner Cut wasn't the Cut it should have been.

But back to topic, I love the idea of SIII having some part in a SII edit. Maybe not for the ultimate SII edit everybody wants to see, but a fan edit still.

[Knight]

...Yes,the idea of II/III would like be an 'alternate' fan edit. The scenes I described in the1st page weaving in and out of II hang together well.

So we get the best parts from 3 and still enjoy 2 at the same time!