atp
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Post by atp on Jul 18, 2022 13:30:27 GMT -5
Honestly I think someone with Superman looks and physique is hard to cast in other things. Look at Chris Helmsworth! I think Supes is such an all enveloping quasi mythological character that whoever inhabits the role will have a hard time shaking it off, career wise. Routh and Cavill are now associated with the character , irrespective of the quality of their portrayals. Imagine if Brando had taken on Supes in the 50s instead of George Reeves!.......even he would have struggled to disassociate himself from the role after the fact. With regards Chris Reeve , I think his artistic choices in the early 80s were excellent. DeathTrap,The Bostonians and Somewhere In Time are all fine little films within ther own sub genres. And Reeve has been on record saying there was whole load of cut footage from Monsignor ,which he speculated could have been re-edited into a better version of that film. I would like to see that , if it should ever come to pass. From the mid to late 80s onwards Reeve's movie role choices were not neccessarily the best.......the worst offender being SIV! I don't think Cavill is really associated with Superman. Not the way Reeve was. I doubt the average person could even tell you the name of the person who plays Superman in MoS |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 18, 2022 13:44:47 GMT -5
I think Supes is such an all enveloping quasi mythological character that whoever inhabits the role will have a hard time shaking it off, career wise. Routh and Cavill are now associated with the character , irrespective of the quality of their portrayals. Imagine if Brando had taken on Supes in the 50s instead of George Reeves!.......even he would have struggled to disassociate himself from the role after the fact. With regards Chris Reeve , I think his artistic choices in the early 80s were excellent. DeathTrap,The Bostonians and Somewhere In Time are all fine little films within ther own sub genres. And Reeve has been on record saying there was whole load of cut footage from Monsignor ,which he speculated could have been re-edited into a better version of that film. I would like to see that , if it should ever come to pass. From the mid to late 80s onwards Reeve's movie role choices were not neccessarily the best.......the worst offender being SIV! I don't think Cavill is really associated with Superman. Not the way Reeve was. I doubt the average person could even tell you the name of the person who plays Superman in MoS Might be interesting to see what happens if Cavill lands the Bond role.......what effect will that have on his legacy(or lack therof!) for Supes?! If he does well as Bond his turn as Supes really may become anecdotal. If Cavill makes a mess of Bond, people may refer back to his Supes portrayals. I have not watched a lot of Cavill movies , but from what I can determine......he seems to be stuck in a kind of "action" star rut......be it Enola Holmes, Mission Impossible, Night Hunter , The Man From UNCLE ect ect ......at least for the last 15 years. Reeve diversified far more with other roles......not surprising as Reeve is/was a far superior actor to Cavill(or Routh). |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 18, 2022 15:36:02 GMT -5
I don't think Cavill is really associated with Superman. Not the way Reeve was. I doubt the average person could even tell you the name of the person who plays Superman in MoS Might be interesting to see what happens if Cavill lands the Bond role.......what effect will that have on his legacy(or lack therof!) for Supes?! If he does well as Bond his turn as Supes really may become anecdotal. If Cavill makes a mess of Bond, people may refer back to his Supes portrayals. I have not watched a lot of Cavill movies , but from what I can determine......he seems to be stuck in a kind of "action" star rut......be it Enola Holmes, Mission Impossible, Night Hunter , The Man From UNCLE ect ect ......at least for the last 15 years. Reeve diversified far more with other roles......not surprising as Reeve is/was a far superior actor to Cavill(or Routh). He'll be crap as Bond. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 18, 2022 23:51:34 GMT -5
I don't think Cavill is really associated with Superman. Not the way Reeve was. I doubt the average person could even tell you the name of the person who plays Superman in MoS Might be interesting to see what happens if Cavill lands the Bond role.......what effect will that have on his legacy(or lack therof!) for Supes?! If he does well as Bond his turn as Supes really may become anecdotal. If Cavill makes a mess of Bond, people may refer back to his Supes portrayals. I have not watched a lot of Cavill movies , but from what I can determine......he seems to be stuck in a kind of "action" star rut......be it Enola Holmes, Mission Impossible, Night Hunter , The Man From UNCLE ect ect ......at least for the last 15 years. Reeve diversified far more with other roles......not surprising as Reeve is/was a far superior actor to Cavill(or Routh). Reeve was impressive as a human being beyond being an actor - he was passionate, intellgent, and seemed to have great self-awareness that grew as he got older... Nobody's perfect, but that he acknowledged his flaws and mistakes with his behavior in athletics and in Hwood- and owning mistakes is a rare quality. His accident forced him to be even more introspective and to be able to even get up in the morning confined to that chair.... well, I don't know if I could have that kind of inner strength- let alone get into the fight to still be in society and try to affect positive change. They say never meet your heroes, but this was a case of learning how the actor chosen to play a mythical hero became a mythical hero in real life on his own.... With all due respect to Cavill and Routh- they can't be nearly as associated with Superman as much as Reeve has, not just because of the number of movies playing Superman- but the timing of being that lead in the first giant budget high quality superhero film. To this date, filmmakers all point to Donner-Reeve's Superman as their Superman and the template - which went on to influence other films. (Notably Sam Raimi's Spiderman and Nolan's Batman and mentioned as Kevin Feige's model for the MCU as well.) If STM was a 'meh' film like Superman III- then I don't think he would have gotten the international overnight superstar status, no matter how good Reeve would have been in even a meh Superman film. It's true that every generation has 'their' Superman that they glom onto at a certain age- but I think it's a case of the real life narrative post-Superman that also look at the Superman movies with even more admiration. Despite their brother/sister-like battles off-screen, Kidder said that Reeve was genuinely a decent guy who only grew more mature over time. I kind of think of how/why a number of different factors in alignment make certain actors legendary in certain roles. No small part because of the movies or tv shows that contain the performance. Regardless of how one might feel about Cavill and Routh's performance-or MOS & SR - they were kind of in a disadvantage if in a competition to compare to being THE actor for Superman .... in ways, Reeve will always come first because STM was a phenomenon and stands up as a quality film. (The effects might not have aged well, but the charm of the ensemble and the romance between Lois and Supes/Clark will never get old.) There's a spot for me for George Reeves' as Supes from the classic tv show- but in the same vein as Adam West in the Batman tv show... but to me, Reeve is the biggest association with Supes in live action, with Routh as the groomed successor. As Christian Bale is for me as live action Batman- though I know it's been Michael Keaton for a number of folks, some of which was similar reasons as Reeve for STM--- Burton's Batman was a phenomenon for many at the time (I loved the look but hated the movie as too 'off' on many points, plus Keaton as Keaton first even though he did give a committed Batman). |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 19, 2022 1:16:47 GMT -5
Timing is definitely an advantage. It always helps to be first.
However, it's not enough.
Look at the Bond films, for example. Even though Sean Connery was the first, and defined THE Bond for generations of people, that didn't stop Daniel Craig from owning the role 40 years later, and being inextricably linked with Bond. So it's not merely the timing.
Show the average person a photo of Craig as Bond, and ask if they know the actor's name. Then try the same experiment with a photo of Cavill as Superman.
I'm not saying that it was only Reeve (Reeve only?) that made his role in STM so iconic. It was everything from the story to the costumes to the lighting to the cinematography and of course the music.
If a new Superman reboot were to capture all these aspects properly, it could conceivably become as great as STM was. Again, you need only look at the Bond world for an illustration. Casino Royale in 2006 just worked. It got everything right, and 16 years later, it is still held up as a great movie. And even though the subsequent Craig movies were mostly crap, Casino Royale will always have a place in the pantheon of legendary movies. Even people who weren't Bond fans still loved Casino Royale.
Had MoS been as good as Casino Royale, things would have been very different. Unfortunately, everything that Casino Royale did so well, MoS did the opposite. Even the music was a failure.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 19, 2022 12:37:29 GMT -5
Timing is definitely an advantage. It always helps to be first. However, it's not enough. Look at the Bond films, for example. Even though Sean Connery was the first, and defined THE Bond for generations of people, that didn't stop Daniel Craig from owning the role 40 years later, and being inextricably linked with Bond. So it's not merely the timing. Show the average person a photo of Craig as Bond, and ask if they know the actor's name. Then try the same experiment with a photo of Cavill as Superman. I'm not saying that it was only Reeve (Reeve only?) that made his role in STM so iconic. It was everything from the story to the costumes to the lighting to the cinematography and of course the music. If a new Superman reboot were to capture all these aspects properly, it could conceivably become as great as STM was. Again, you need only look at the Bond world for an illustration. Casino Royale in 2006 just worked. It got everything right, and 16 years later, it is still held up as a great movie. And even though the subsequent Craig movies were mostly crap, Casino Royale will always have a place in the pantheon of legendary movies. Even people who weren't Bond fans still loved Casino Royale. Had MoS been as good as Casino Royale, things would have been very different. Unfortunately, everything that Casino Royale did so well, MoS did the opposite. Even the music was a failure. It's ultimately a matter of taste. I respected Casino Royale as a decent movie, but with Craig as directed was a cold killer...I believed him.... but I found with him with zero charisma. For my money, Skyfall was the best Craig Bond. But- I think with Reeve and Supes- it's more historical as well. Film nuts would see it for the context of it being an event film. For generations after, when superhero films shockingly became a genuine genre of its own- primarily due to MCU- it's whoever they glom onto with the timing for Superman.... but.... you're right- the music, cinematography, and perfectionism by Donner that would make following generations look back with admiration and potentially attach to Reeve as Supes and Kidder as Lois as the best ones. If Casino Royale had a more charismatic Bond, I think I might have felt the same, though. My own personal tops are: #1: Brosnan- perfect balance of charm, humor, seriousness- #2: Connery- original.... but even so, I still like Brosnan more- go figure... #3: Tossup of Dalton and Moore. Dalton when I'm in a mood for darker more serious BOnd- Moore when I want someone lighter. #4: Lazenby- #86: Craig #87: Woody Allen  |
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