matt
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Post by matt on Sept 19, 2010 17:56:47 GMT -5
Does anyone know what the budget was for this movie? Do you think most of the budget was spent on paying money to Brando and rest of the cast? They could have used money for better sound effects,and special effects, music score etc. I wonder if they spent more on paying everyone off then they used for the actual movie itself?
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Sept 19, 2010 19:56:21 GMT -5
I think most of the "budget" went into building that cheap crystal chamber set piece and hiring a Reeve double for the completely unnecessary shots of Supes in the chamber. Reeve filmed those shots in the chamber under Lester's direction. Now yes, he was in costume the first time, which, under Donner's version, didn't match, but they could've easily just digitally added the proper clothing onto Reeve in the shots done under Lester's direction so that the clothes matched (though it was nice to see Supes FLY towards the chamber instead of walk towards it). For the second time Supes enters the chamber, he was in costume under Lester's direction. There was ABSOLUTELY NO NEED to film that again for the DC.
Oh, and don't bother trying to convince me that that was actually Reeve in those DC chamber shots and that they were shot back in 77'. I've looked at every frame closely while making my fan cut. There's a few frames where I can see, clear as day, that's it's another actor with prosthetics and a wig (not to mention the cape fitting AND the neck line on Superman's shirt is wrong). We didn't see Kidder in that scene (except from behind and then with her face covered), so why would we see Reeve? Obviously Donner never finished shooting this scene. He must've wanted to finish Brando's parts first. 2ndly, if it was actually filmed, why don't we see Superman's face? The acting for that scene is crucial. You're gonna tell me Donner wanted to obscure Supes face during these 2 pivotal scenes? B.S. Donner loved face close-ups, as made obvious in S1. Between the close-ups of Zod's face when he yells at Jor-el, and of course, when Superman screams in anguish over Lois dying.
Whew. Sorry for ranting there guys. The other day the guy in charge of the restoration of the KCOP of S1 over at the bizarroworld message board messaged me on facebook and told me that it was a double for Kidder's voice in the balcony scene at the end of the DC, as well as the prisoner saying "tonight?" instead of "there's a scratch on it". His reasoning was a change in hissing and feedback if you listen closely with headphones on. I had never even brought this subject up to him before, and he just came outta nowhere with this claim. So I replied "I know it's Kidder's voice and the reason you think it's her voice in that scene in the RIC is because she dubbed herself over (probably under Lester's direction, considering her change in voice), and that I know the actor playing the prisoner is saying "tonight?" simply based on his mouth movement. He emailed me back repeating the same thing, as if repeating himself without proper evidence was gonna convince me. So I just told him "Sorry, I don't believe you". He just replied "Lol, ok then".
Anyway, I just don't wanna start another argument with this whole "I KNOW that this scene was done like this, and that this line was dubbed, etc..."
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Sept 19, 2010 23:00:54 GMT -5
Does anyone know what the budget was for this movie? Do you think most of the budget was spent on paying money to Brando and rest of the cast? They could have used money for better sound effects,and special effects, music score etc. I wonder if they spent more on paying everyone off then they used for the actual movie itself? Most of the money was probably used towards getting the film found, transferred and remastered. The editing itself was done of Final Cut I think, and the effects were probably done with something like After Effects lol. I think the Brando footage was a package deal with Superman Returns, so that probably fell into the SR budget. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 19, 2010 23:45:39 GMT -5
I'll take a stab at breaking down the budget: $1 million- Finding/transferring/remastering $1 million- Extra money to bribe Marlon Brando's heirs, despite SR 10 cents- Special effects team hired to make Marlon Brando's head bounce around and look like an unfinished effect, as well as add mislabeled CGI missile rockets that explode in space against poorly done star backgrounds from Photoshop. I can't prove it, but I think I'm correct.....  |
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Post by Kamdan on Sept 20, 2010 1:16:23 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a damn shame that Selutron did a heck of a better job at making his Superman II footage match up with Superman: The Movie's effects and editing style than Thau and he had more money and backing. That is just unforgivable, Thau! I do wish that Selutron could just go ahead and make his cut and release it us, as what Adywan is doing for the Star Wars films.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Sept 20, 2010 10:32:47 GMT -5
The whole thing was done for like $5, well seems it anyway.
*cries*
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 20, 2010 11:16:51 GMT -5
I'll take a stab at breaking down the budget: $1 million- Finding/transferring/remastering $1 million- Extra money to bribe Marlon Brando's heirs, despite SR 10 cents- Special effects team hired to make Marlon Brando's head bounce around and look like an unfinished effect, as well as add mislabeled CGI missile rockets that explode in space against poorly done star backgrounds from Photoshop. I can't prove it, but I think I'm correct..... ;D I agree, CAM. The Donner cut to me me is little more than a curious extras disc for Superman II in the ultimate collection. Fun to see that unseen footage finally but some of the new fx and composites just make me wince. |
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 20, 2010 14:26:36 GMT -5
Some guy named Matt Faulkner is credited for the awesome...ly cheap opening titles for the Donner Cut. His resumé includes: Caddyshack: The 19th Hole (video documentary short) (graphic artist) The Textures of 'Timeline' (video documentary short) (graphic designer) Journey Through 'Timeline' (video documentary) (graphic designer) So they hired a guy who does video editing for DVD supplemental featurettes to do the main titles on a Superman movie meant to outdo a film 26 years its senior. Spared no expense!Very appropriate though. The Donner Cut feels like a DVD bonus feature rather than a real film. It shares the same crew as one too. |
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matt
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Post by matt on Sept 20, 2010 14:47:11 GMT -5
The titles look cheap.
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matt
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Post by matt on Sept 20, 2010 14:50:24 GMT -5
To bad they couldn't use the title credits from the first movie. My guess they need a new title sequence to add the Michael Thau credit.
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 20, 2010 14:53:12 GMT -5
The theatrical S2's credits were infinitely better, even with the forced recap.
The roar of the "SUPERMAN II" text descending down was pretty neat.
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 20, 2010 15:08:09 GMT -5
To bad they couldn't use the title credits from the first movie. My guess they need a new title sequence to add the Michael Thau credit.  |
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matt
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Post by matt on Sept 20, 2010 15:11:19 GMT -5
To bad they couldn't use the title credits from the first movie. My guess they need a new title sequence to add the Michael Thau credit. That's the one! ;D |
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Post by Kamdan on Sept 20, 2010 21:51:40 GMT -5
Come to think of it, they did have to blow some money on the additional shots, like Lois falling and other stuff matted into existing shots. Read the Thau interview for additional information.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 21, 2010 4:17:49 GMT -5
Why did they use screen tests but not finished work by Lester? Oh wait, cos EVERYTHING Lester shot was awful wasn't it?  |
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Post by Kamdan on Sept 21, 2010 11:30:43 GMT -5
I thought that was because of Donner's extreme animosity towards Lester.
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The Phantom Menace
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Sept 21, 2010 11:40:10 GMT -5
The theatrical S2's credits were infinitely better, even with the forced recap.. Do you think the recap was a Lester thing or a Salkind thing? They used to same idea in The Four Musketeers. |
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Post by Kamdan on Sept 21, 2010 11:49:16 GMT -5
Now that I think of it, I do remember as a kid thinking, "Why do I need to watch Superman: The Movie? The best parts are at the beginning of Superman II!" ;D
Also, did anyone ever take note of how there was other footage of Brando reciting his lines from Superman II that sounded much more superior than what ended up in the RDC? Brando's kind of mumbling thoughout his scenes. Also, Thau couldn't get the right consistency on Brando's face, as it was in Superman: The Movie. You'd figure that wouldn't be so hard nowadays, eh?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2010 12:22:50 GMT -5
When Thau said that there were instances where the film was deteriorated so much, that an alternate take was taken for that reason.....but at other times, he just was trying to make it feel like a fresh experience by swapping out the take or making a new change.
Problem is....99% of the times, the choices- whether necessary or not necessary-- were HORRIBLE.
The 'special' fx guys (I have such contempt for the hack job these guys did, I want them to refund a portion of my dvd money) didn't even get the background plate correct so that it matches the first film..... I agree- why would they have such difficulties getting Jor-el to look the way that he did in the first film?
While I may have issues on my home computer matching it--- I'm not claiming to be a professional fx guy, either. *sigh*
And about the recap---I think Mank's script has a recap in the front, of sorts, if memory serves right. Also I think on one of the STM scripts there was going to be at the end of STM an 'end trailer' like there was for "Three Musketeers" (which was pretty cool, actually & glad that they left it on the dvd).
Whoever's idea it was for the recap, I didn't mind at all. It was a good way to reintroduce everything and 'up the ante' for expectations as soon as the credits ended.
If Donner's SII would have opened with exactly the same credits we wouldn't have known the difference, but after seeing it used in the theatrical, I think I'm not the only one who thought it was a good enough idea to keep for fancuts.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2010 12:53:27 GMT -5
On a side note, since we're discussing Donner's SII currently here:
Listened to a blurb from Pierre Spenger about how, originally, there was going to be SO much damage worldwide that the only way to restore all the damage to the world was to turn back time.
That makes MORE sense than just trying to erase Lois' memory--- which is the idea more/less gotten in watching the RDC. In the Donner cut, there's a sense of trying to restore the idea a bit, but since the villains' destroying the world never got shot (nor reconstructed), the idea doesn't come across that clearly.
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Post by Kamdan on Sept 21, 2010 13:52:56 GMT -5
Yeah, that was something on my mind after Lester's Superman II, notably the defacing of Mt. Rushmore. I think the ending of Lester's Superman II with him returning the flag was to represent that Superman was going to help restore all of the damage the villains had done.
Another deal I am in question about is that apparently Donner's footage was cut by Stuart Baird. I thought The Making of Superman II stated that John Victor-Smith used footage shot from 2 years before (a.k.a. the Donner footage).
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matt
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Post by matt on Sept 21, 2010 21:09:15 GMT -5
One of my favorite videos of all time ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Sept 21, 2010 23:59:15 GMT -5
HAHAHA!
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Post by joey m on Sept 22, 2010 3:13:23 GMT -5
At this point I wish they would just release the old ABC tv version. (that doesn't seem unreasonable. The extended tv versions of Dune and Halloween have been released officially)
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 22, 2010 4:33:42 GMT -5
That's a really good point. The tv version of Dune Lynch was so happy with, that he put a pseudonym for both his director & writer credit.... but STILL it was released.
Wonder if the powers that be DON'T need the director's approval to release these?
I wish nothing but the best for Donner--- but the IRC is probably one of the best edited versions of Superman II out there, despite the giant flaws of having so much Lester stuff in it.... it WOULD be nice if it were released on dvd officially...
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