Rate "Superman Returns" -4 years later-

[Kamdan]

I really, really, really, want to have sex with Parker Posey. She shoulda been Lois.

Ahh... no. She's a REAL ditz and she's not spunky enough to be Lois. Although, I must say I wouldn't pass up the sex! ;D

[Jor-L5150]

Sept 28, 2010 19:45:48 GMT -5 Kamdan said:

I really, really, really, want to have sex with Parker Posey. She shoulda been Lois.

Ahh... no. She's a REAL ditz and she's not spunky enough to be Lois. Although, I must say I wouldn't pass up the sex! ;D

[Metallo]

Sept 28, 2010 14:48:09 GMT -5 Valentine Smith said:

Watched it recently, and I see more and more flaws with each viewing. I still feel the good outweighs the bad, but I see more and more bad all the time, and I get frustrated by it.

However, the GOOD remains constant.

Routh is excellent.

The score is great (although poorly edited)

I like Langella's Perry White. Who says we can't have an understated Perry?

I think this is the best live-action Jimmy ever.

Spacey is great, but utilized poorly.

I still love the suit.

Brandon's delivery of the Jor-El lines to the kid gets me every time.

Superman pulling the boat out of the water...with that music...one of the best Superman scenes ever put on film. Superior to the airplane sequence, in my opinion.

I really, really, really, want to have sex with Parker Posey. She shoulda been Lois.

The scene of Supes descending into the Fortress before he realizes it's been ransacked is just such an incredible shot. Ranks high in the all time Superman moments for me.

Pretty much this.

Its not a perfect movie but I think Singer deserved a chance to do an X men 2 with a Superman sequel. X-men had some of the same problems as SR and Singer brought his A game for the sequel so I think chances were high he could have improved on SR.

[HOSNI]

Gets better with age. Each time I see it i enjoy it a little more. Brandon and Kate look younger every time which bothers me, whereas Chris and Margot don't.

Weird.

Anyway - definetely worthy of a sequel.

[jak321]

Here's an interview with Mike Dougherty.
www.slashfilm.com/2009/11/01/the-filmcast-after-dark-ep-73-making-trick-r-treat-guest-mike-dougherty-director-of-trick-r-treat/

I agree with him that a Supervillain was needed in SR.

[Kamdan]

Oh, NOW they thought of that!
Of course the plane rescue was good, because it was directly from the comics, Bryne's The Man of Steel.

[Rod]

My issues with SR continues the same.
Lack of action and the plot itself.
This is not a movie about a superhero returning and trying to find his place in the world. I would love to see Supes facing a hard time having to prove himself.
As soon as he returns the world welcomes him back with open arms. Lois is the only one who's not happy to see him back. Even Luthor is happy to have Superman back because it gives him a chance to settle the score.

And yes, Parker Posey all the way.

[Deleted]

Lois is truly the only one on Earth that matters to him. Outside of Ma. It would devastate me too if I came back to everyone happy except for the one I want happy.

[stargazer01]

I Really need to see this movie again soon..

[crazy_asian_man]

This is not a movie about a superhero returning and trying to find his place in the world. I would love to see Supes facing a hard time having to prove himself.
As soon as he returns the world welcomes him back with open arms. Lois is the only one who's not happy to see him back.

I have a friend that argues the same thing: That he was disappointed that Superman didn't have to prove himself back to the world. That the premise had not been followed through.

I saw it differently: that Superman would be giving himself the hardest time. That the world (in general) would feel lucky to have ANY Superman help them for anything & just be happy that he returned.

And that the person most upset would be the one who really needs him. The world didn't "NEED" a Superman, but Lois did.

And Superman had to prove to himself that --even though he wasn't ever really a part of the world-- that it was alright to re-assume his role.

That aspect may have made people uncomfortable on some level. The idea of a 'king' that serves his people that is willing to leave, then come back, leaving them to fend for themselves.

The idea that the world is capable enough to stand on its own was probably a humbling experience to Supes, and that's where the movie and the story had a fresh dimension imo, past the comics.

If Superman can't solve all the world's problems, then how relevant is he?

That's a deep subtext. Maybe too deep, but I don't think so. I think the movie is a success at $400 million around the world- but brilliant minds at Hollywood consider it a disappointment still.

The extra money I think it might have missed is that it didn't have enough extra 'superheroic action'. Even the way that property was saved in SR might have taken a somewhat realistic approach, when I didn't really want that part taken realistically, but with a romantic/ idealistic tone to it.

That's where it comes up a bit short that not talked about specifically. The heroics should be in bright colors and done in a flashy way. You could have had the deep moody contemplative stuff (which it did and I loved), but it could have/should have had more of the kickarse 'wow' moments I think it was Kevin who mentioned earlier.

*Sigh* Man of Steel woulda delivered for EVERYONE, pretty sure...

[Jimbo]

Good, but not great. Probably 8/10. The problem I have with the movie is that it sets Superman against a really nice Richard White for Lois' affections. What would have happened in a sequel? Lois would ditch him for Superman? Bad. They portrayed Richard as a downright heroic family-man. They should have given him at least have a slight douchey side. Or give Lois doubts about her future with him. Were they going to rehash the ending of Spider-Man 2 with Lois leaving Richard at the altar?

So what else? Lois would reject Superman and stick with Richard? Also bad, as the movie is about Superman. That's something you do in a TV show, and then resolve it a season later.

Definitely deserved a sequel to answer that question though.

[stargazer01]

That's where it comes up a bit short that not talked about specifically. The heroics should be in bright colors and done in a flashy way. You could have had the deep moody contemplative stuff (which it did and I loved), but it could have/should have had more of the kickarse 'wow' moments

Great post, CAM. Yes to that.^^ I think they overestimated Supes power too much when they expected this film to do huge BO numbers. SR REALLY wasn't the type of film for that. They thought people were desperate to watch another Supes film, but they really weren't. Same with Batman Begins. Both films underperformed. The truth is that there is enough interest in Superman films, but what general audiences really want is just an entertaining film to watch on the weekends (well except Twilight audiences...).

Adored the drama/subtext in SR but Superman really is a bright hero. I admit, it did bother me a little that his cape didn't look red enough in the film. Brandon would have look a lot more gorgeous with a brighter cape than he already looked. Was Singer ashamed of the cheesy red or what? I understand muting the color a bit but not so much!! The actual colors of the suit are brighter than in the movie, btw. Sigh.

[Legsy]

The filter Singer used on SR is perhaps the worst thing about the film. That and Bosworth. I recently watched the pilot episode of House, Singer used the same filter for both the pilot of House and SR. It makes everything look dull and flat. Horrible. The Blu-ray version of SR is a lot better than the standard DVD.

From what I've seen on Smallville, the SR suit really works well on screen. Granted, Welling hasn't worn it, but the \S/ and the cape looks like a nice crimson red. It seems to work, without the filter.

[crazy_asian_man]

The problem I have with the movie is that it sets Superman against a really nice Richard White for Lois' affections. What would have happened in a sequel? Lois would ditch him for Superman? Bad. They portrayed Richard as a downright heroic family-man. They should have given him at least have a slight douchey side. Or give Lois doubts about her future with him. Were they going to rehash the ending of Spider-Man 2 with Lois leaving Richard at the altar?

Well....actually that is what I LIKED about SR: Like the best Star Trek episodes--- it doesn't give the heroes/heroines easy choices to make. If Richard was a dick (with apologies to Donner) .... then we probably wouldn't respect Lois to begin with.

That she chose a decent guy and not a Brad speaks well for her.

HOWEVER....
It does bring up a big question:
* I thought that Lois DIDN'T know who the father was. That (and I think this would have been confirmed in a sequel) Lois slept with Richard later on......but because of super-kryptonian-schlomalian-whatever sperm, that normal rules wouldn't apply to pregnancy in this case.

If Lois DIDN'T know..... then nobody is being the 'bad person'.

If Lois DIDN'T know- because she slept with Supes and Richard right away....well.... then Lois is arguably a bit of a tramp.

If Lois DID know- and slept with Richard later on but never mentioned that she knew that he was using all his time/energy/sacrifice for another man's son.... then Lois is definitely a bit of a tramp. Or a liar. Or both.

So....
I did like the complexity of Richard being character-wise "Superman without the powers". It makes it far more interesting.... also how Singer would wrap it up without making it feel like a tv show plot thread that needed to be sewed up nice and neat.

Pity that Dougherty never got that far with Singer to iron this out.... geez, I hope SOMEONE on that creative team spills the beans on what they WERE going to do for MOS before everyone forgets.... *sigh*

[Jimbo]

Well, if Lois didn't know who the father was, then from strictly a timing perspective, Richard was clearly having sloppy seconds, and Lois is quite the slut. ;D

[Paul (ral)]

I just finished watching Superman Returns about 2 mins ago (I came across the OST on Friday and have been re-listening in the car for a few days). It's been said so many times but...

...during the last 2 hours I have been saying to myself - "Why?"

Why the awful suit?
Why the muted, flat filter (used in post-production I assume)?
Why does the suit look more cyan/green than SIV's worst moments?
Why the flat grainy picture that looks like it was shot on my HD camcorder?
Why the over-use of unnecessary CGI?
Why the badly rendered CGI cape?
Why try and tie the story in with STM & SII "losely"?
Why not really explore the impact on Superman returning?
Why change the last 3 notes of the Superman motif whenever it's played (that really fucking annoys me)?
Why shoe-horn Williams' themes into the score especially when it disrupts the flow of the music?
Why bookend the movie with Williams' triumphant march when the movie is lacking in triumphant scenes? When the closing credits appear it's like "This is what you could of had!"

Recently I have been thinking:

In the past I gave Routh a "by-ball" saying if the movie had been better written/directed then he would have been better. Look what Reeve had to work with in 3 and 4 and he was always great.

[matt]

Oct 4, 2010 14:27:25 GMT -5 Legsy said:

The filter Singer used on SR is perhaps the worst thing about the film. That and Bosworth. I recently watched the pilot episode of House, Singer used the same filter for both the pilot of House and SR. It makes everything look dull and flat. Horrible.

I think the color was a metaphor for the movie


Just kidding

[stargazer01]

Reeve wasn't ALWAYS great in the Superman movies, IMO. Especially not in S4. LOVED him in the role, but I can't say his acting was flawless all the time. Same with Brandon.

triumphant scenes? Well, to me the music at the end of SR was totally appropriate because he was deeply content at the discovery that he had a son. Plus he wasn't exactly all smiles in the final shot either, which was yes appropriate and in tone with the story.

I always thought that Reeve smiling so much at the end of Superman 2 was really inappropriate; he had just lost his chances to be with Lois, the love of his life, so why would he be so happy? It feels very artificial, imo.

[matt]

I thought he should have gave the middle finger for the end fly bye.

[stargazer01]

To his mom and the writers for making up such horrible rules. ;D


On SR's Lois, I always thought that she knew Supes was Jason's dad but didn't know he had powers until the piano incident. . wow, many hate that part. ;D

And I also think Richard always knew Jason wasn't his son. But later figured out that Supes was the real father. And that Lois still pretty much loved Supes.

So, she got together with Richard when she was already pregnant, Richard knew it but accepted her that way. Yeah, he was probably a rebound, and Lois was probably trying to replace Supes with Richard, but it just wasn't the same. I'm fine with all that. It's pretty adult stuff and I like it. Makes the story feel more realistic and it's a full circle in keeping with the themes of Fathers and Sons and Saviours with the Reeve movies. Plus Supes clearly gives Lois up at the end while reassuring her that he would never leave again.

Now, in a sequel, Lois probably stays with Richard because he IS a good man. But Richard being the good and decent man that he is realizes that he can't force himself into her life that way either, so he leaves her but they remains friends for Jason. Later on he's killed when he's trying to protect Lois and/or Jason from some enemy. Supes tries his very best to save him but he can't. He liked and respected Richard too, and gets very sad and guilty that he couldn't save him. He then goes all out on some supervillain butt! At the end, is Lois who wants him back because he's the father of her son and because she still loves him.

Aww ;D

[Legsy]

Sadly, we'll never know.

[crazy_asian_man]

On SR's Lois, I always thought that she knew Supes was Jason's dad but didn't know he had powers until the piano incident. . wow, many hate that part.

And I also think Richard always knew Jason wasn't his son. But later figured out that Supes was the real father. And that Lois still pretty much loved Supes.

So, she got together with Richard when she was already pregnant, Richard knew it but accepted her that way. Yeah, he was probably a rebound, and Lois was probably trying to replace Supes with Richard, but it just wasn't the same. I'm fine with all that. It's pretty adult stuff and I like it. Makes the story feel more realistic and it's a full circle in keeping with the themes of Fathers and Sons and Saviours with the Reeve movies. Plus Supes clearly gives Lois up at the end while reassuring her that he would never leave again.

Now, in a sequel, Lois probably stays with Richard because he IS a good man. But Richard being the good and decent man that he is realizes that he can't force himself into her life that way either, so he leaves her but they remains friends for Jason. Later on he's killed when he's trying to protect Lois and/or Jason from some enemy. Supes tries his very best to save him but he can't. He liked and respected Richard too, and gets very sad and guilty that he couldn't save him. He then goes all out on some supervillain butt! At the end, is Lois who wants him back because he's the father of her son and because she still loves him.

I always assumed that there was a window to doubt.... that Lois suspected- but if she KNEW and purposely manipulated Richard/ let Richard and her son on for 7 years.... then.... her character kind of crosses a line that makes her hard to forgive for such lack of character.

I think Singer is deft enough to have handled this (as he does with most of his material) in an intelligent and subtle way. I have to agree with those who claim that the 'half and half continuity' does make the logic get clumsy, though, when looking back and trying to sort out details of the relationship.

(I question Superman's character- he's willing to sleep with Lois but not tell her his secret identity? OR.... does the whole memory kiss power have validity in Singer's version?)

Regardless of some of the clunky items (and imo the clunky stuff is far far overshadowed by the great stuff)--- it's still not just head and shoulders, but mountains ahead of the convention mediocre junk like Xmen 3/ Daredevil/ most of the Batman films pre-Nolan.

I think Richard would have been killed. The son, not, though. But.... until Singer is ready to spill the beans (and I hope he does before he gets too old to remember)- we won't know.

It's REALLY a shame that Dougherty wasn't able to divulge more, or that the interviewer didn't push for SOME more details, as that Radio show was pretty thorough (or thorough enough) to share what we WOULD have gotten with Singer for X3, had he chose X3 instead...
*sigh*

[Metallo]

Oct 4, 2010 13:32:57 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

The problem I have with the movie is that it sets Superman against a really nice Richard White for Lois' affections. What would have happened in a sequel? Lois would ditch him for Superman? Bad. They portrayed Richard as a downright heroic family-man. They should have given him at least have a slight douchey side. Or give Lois doubts about her future with him. Were they going to rehash the ending of Spider-Man 2 with Lois leaving Richard at the altar?

I actually liked that they made Richard a nice guy. Most movies make the rival a grade A @$$hole and thats just really predictable sometimes though other times it can be pretty entertaining. With Richard being a good guy (which does happen from time to time when a woman remarries) it makes the whole conflict for the characters that much harder.

Superman wants Lois but he's a good man and he's not going to break up a good family. Lois has feelings for both and rightfully so I'd guess. Richards a good father and provider who would risk his life even though he isn't bulletproof. Would Superman really want to crush the guys spirit by telling Richard Jason wasn't his son? I like that there seems to be a kind of conflict but at the same time a respect between the two men.

I like that its not so black and white for everyone. I just felt like the movies problem was that it was so all over the place sometimes that it didn't do enough to showcase or resolve these kinds of conflicts.

They were in a corner as far as what to do with it in a sequel and most of the options they could have gone with don't sit to well with me but it would have been interesting to see where they went with it all.

[stargazer01]

I always assumed that there was a window to doubt.... that Lois suspected- but if she KNEW and purposely manipulated Richard/ let Richard and her son on for 7 years.... then.... her character kind of crosses a line that makes her hard to forgive for such lack of character.

That she suspected what? That Jason might be Supes' son?

She did not manipulated anybody because she told Richard that her baby wasn't his from the start. He knew and he accepted her with her baggage.

[crazy_asian_man]

She did not manipulated anybody because she told Richard that her baby wasn't his from the start. He knew and he accepted her with her baggage.

I think there was a Singer interview blurb that mentioned she didn't know for sure & that Richard was thought to believe he truly WAS the father, but I'll have to dig that one up to confirm- or re-read the Dougherty script & see if there is evidence to that, which does give some great insights here and there about what the filmmakers intented in the side character blurbs.

(In one bit, Richard was always designed to be "Superman without the powers" as designed)

You could be right, but I never interpreted it that way from the get go. I assumed that he figured it out by the end- and that Lois didn't know for sure herself until the very moment that the piano was hurled across the room (if she did, then when the kids' life was in danger growing up, always being sick in hospitals--- wouldn't she be willing to tell the doctors that Superman was the father to help them with their diagnoises- unless she wasn't sure that the child was Kryptonian?).

I guess, sadly, a moot point.....*sigh*