Why Was Donner's Script Thrown Out?

[Kamdan]

What were the reasons behind simply going back to the original Puzo and Newmans' script for Superman II instead of just following the revised Mankiewicz script?

[Jimbo]

I'm sure it had to do with needing to have at least 50% of the film directed by Lester. But yeah...that doesn't explain why Lester didn't just reshoot large portions of the Mankiewicz script verbatim.

And I don't think they reverted back to the original Puzo/Newman script. I believe the Newmans made yet another script, and made it work with the footage they could not or did not want to reshoot (such as Hackman, White House, Don's Diner)

[Kamdan]

I wondered because of Mankiewicz's credit still being in the film, for his work on the Donner portions of the film. While Donner turned down credit, Mankiewicz must have been more willing to accept.

I believe that script was handled by George Macdonald Fraser and Guy Hamilton. If you look back at the original script, many of the scenes that were revised were nearly identical with hardly any resemblance to the Mankiewicz script. The Niagara Falls and Honeymoon scenes come to mind.

[Jimbo]

I think they were legally obligated to include Mank's name. Notice though that it's before the screenwriter credits in S2 rather than after in STM. I think the WGA got pissed about Donner doing that in STM.

[crazy_asian_man]

I'm sure it had to do with needing to have at least 50% of the film directed by Lester. But yeah...that doesn't explain why Lester didn't just reshoot large portions of the Mankiewicz script verbatim.

Part of it had to be cost- the Metropolis battle was far more epic (and even would have been a bit scary to 12 year olds) than the theatrical---so I could understand why some revisions would have had to be made from a financial point of view......BUT....

I agree- a lot of the times, it's just unncessary & had to be Lester's ego--- making it more a farce that laughs at the audience in parts, like Lester's other films.

If another director who took over respected what was supposed to be there by Donner, Donner might have even accepted credit, if the material were treated just as serious as Donner wanted in the first place.

[Kamdan]

Must be because the Writer's Guild is much more harder assed on those manners than the Director's Guild. What is curious to me was the choice of Donner footage and scenes they wanted and what they had taken out. Lester and the Salkinds must have not liked the blank bullets scene that much.

Yeah, you are right about the TIGHT schedule.

[atp]

Thausands of hours to create, and they dismissed it in seconds.

[Jor-L5150]

;D

as much as i love donner, i have to admit, lester being handed the job was asking a lot. he did amazing work with ridiculous stipulations.

for crying out loud he HAD to keep the hackman footage, because hackman wasnt coming back-
AND-
he COULDNT use the brando footage,
which is a real pickle since important scenes included both at the same time.
while i prefer the donner story material ( if not the donner cut ) hats off to the director, writers and film editor.

[The Phantom Menace]

Oct 20, 2010 16:00:59 GMT -5 atp said:

Thausands of hours to create, and they dismissed it in seconds.

;D I didn't catch that at first.

[Kamdan]

Where's Selutron? Where is he... why doesn't he do something?

[TylerDurden389]

Oct 20, 2010 18:09:49 GMT -5 Kamdan said:

Where's Selutron? Where is he... why doesn't he do something?

Do something? Lol, come on dude. He actually went to WB to ask them to revisit S2. He showed them how easily it could be done with NO money on a HOME computer. He's shown it to Mank, who supposedly showed it to Donner. Around the time his videos were circulating I had heard that Sarah Douglas had seen it as well (not sure where I read that).

One thing I'd like to bring up though to help answer your question. As I've discussed with CAM over in emails, I think the reason Sel hasn't become involved with us is simple. The reason he wants a new OFFICIAL release of S2 (as opposed to the numerous fan cuts), is because in the grand scheme of things, fan cuts mean diddly. 30 years from now, 50, 100, and so on, it's whats available to the consumer that matters. Look at it this way. The whole controversy regarding S2 is STILL being argued amongst fans like us, over 30 years later. Fan cuts can do wonders for the fans making them, and the fans watching them. However, this movie has been completely dissected, right down to the READING of a line done twice for the SAME scene.

If there's one thing a new official release will do (I hope) is finally put the controversy to rest. That way we can all enjoy the movie like we're supposed to. Finally have this whole thing dead and buried, and finally put to rest. The Donner Cut is what we all thought would fill the hole. Instead, the DC just made the hole 3 times deeper than it already was.

[Kamdan]

I think I'll keep my peace about it until the new film comes out. If Warners doesn't do anything by then, then I'm really going to itching for Selutron to just release the cut, so we can see what all of the fuss is about. It always seems like "extended cuts" and "director's cuts" are only there to please the fans of the particular films and the mainstream audiences don't nessicarality care. Fan edits please those same exact fans who want to see alternate looks at films they have become all too familiar with.

[Knight]

Yea,TDC gave us the footage we so dearly wanted to see mainly Brando,I believe. (?)

It's fascinating knowing that they had all that footage from STM and cut scenes and all. But what we got given was a treat for the eyes upon purchase,ultimately disappointing. But,as Durden said it created more questions than answers.

Some changes were good,others were not.

On the face of it II is still an excellent film.

[atp]

[Matt in the Hat]

Oct 21, 2010 10:59:02 GMT -5 atp said:

lolz for all! My treat!

[Kamdan]

Haha. "He chickened out! AHH... phony!"

[lois]

I've read a lot of articles on reasons why Donner's script was thrown out. Apparently he had a big disagreement with the Salkinds. Over precisely what, it's not very clear.

I also prefer the Donner cut of Superman II and like the ending better in the Donner cut.

Lester did do a good job with Superman II. I've watched both versions and there are parts I like in both versions.

However, Lester really missed the mark with Superman III. Out of all of the Superman films this is the one that I like the least. The reason I watch it is because of Chris Reeve. I actually like Superman IV better, since Reeve contributed to part of the story line.

Had Donner's script been filmed in it's entirety and that film been shown theatrically, I wonder what might happened in the next films, had, Donner been at the helm. Oh what might have been.

In conclusion, I'd like to say we've got a pretty good list of films so far in the Superman universe. Not bad indeed.

[Matt in the Hat]

The material had to be new material that had to be worked, basically. Couldn't go back and work on what had already been done. Besides, it wouldn't have made much of a difference. They didn't want to pay brando, so right there, the salkinds shot themselves in the foot, using the mother instead. Which is, of course, stupid.

[crazy_asian_man]

The material had to be new material that had to be worked, basically. Couldn't go back and work on what had already been done. Besides, it wouldn't have made much of a difference. They didn't want to pay brando, so right there, the salkinds shot themselves in the foot, using the mother instead. Which is, of course, stupid.

Ideally, if Donner wasn't going to be allowed to return, then I would have rather that they gave the film to ANYONE else who would have resisted the temptation to turn it into pure slapstick when possible (Lester).

But, Lester wanted the impression that it was wholly his. I always point to the (lack of) quality of Superman III- which is 100% Lester versus Superman II- which is split, primarily because of the film being 1/2 Donner footage and/or having the advantages of Donner's foundation.

If the theoretical 'average joe' off the street who was willing to take the material seriously and wasn't interested in changing it wholly, then- he/she could have:

* Recast Brando with a Brando-lookalike. Not perfect, but I would have preferred that to throwing out the Mank script.

* Kept all the original stuff & simply shot as written in the original script.

* If cutting costs was a big concern (and apparently it was), I would have rather that the bulk of resources be put towards the Metro battle. They could have saved quite a bit by removing many of the Lester set pieces:

#1: East Houston getting trashed
#2: Effeil Tower sequence (instead restoring the DP jump properly- and I don't count the RDC as a proper restoration, given what I'd mentioned about how Donner shot both "Inside Moves" and "Lethal Weapon" with a similiar amazing real jump off of a building with a stunt person vs. cheap bluescreen- Inside Moves being the immediate next film for Donner, makes more sense that he would have done it that way, had he come back)
#3: Lois jumping into the river

Again- the giant left turn that ruined the series was Lester's ego, imo. While Superman II is watchable, it hurts knowing what was originally prepared, then seeing how it was made in a way that really undermined what was intended, and have a final product really inferior to it.

Groan.
The script didn't HAVE to be thrown out.

[Jack Tripper]

Oct 21, 2010 10:59:02 GMT -5 atp said:

i got a good laugh out of that. thanks.

[dejan]

"Selutron's version is a sentimental replica of a script , long since vanished.........no style at all!"

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 17, 2022 16:09:20 GMT -5 dejan said:

"Selutron's version is a sentimental replica of a script , long since vanished.........no style at all!"

It’s ironic how recently the obi-wan cut went out and was officially commented on by variety whereas Selutron has disappeared... but... I give him credit to push for an official cut with more footage.