Bryan Singer's The Man of Steel Storyline

[stargazer01]

Dec 11, 2010 2:24:39 GMT -5 @bamabrad said:

Death is a part of life. Death makes you realize how precious and fragile life is. As far as story like that would need to be executed, someone has to die. At least make the death count for something.

I for one am sick of seeing these stories where there are no consequences for the characters. At the end of two hours, everything is hunky-fucking-dory for everyone.

I stand by the fact that Singer had balls to take Superman a step beyond the norm and give him a broken, unrepairable relationship and a kid. Otherwise, what do we get beyond the tired plot of Superman saving the day? I want more -man in Superman. I want a character who will evolve.

I also want Superman to evolve as a character (and SR did a good job in that aspect, imo), but killing his own son/his son dying is going too far. At the end of the day, a Superman film should be mostly uplifting and full of hope. If he can't find a way to save his own son, What can the rest of us mortals expect? It's too depressing. I just can't see Superman and Lois smiling or thinking about love again after a tragedy like that.

Yes, I know death is part of life, and I thought Jonathan's death in STM was very poignant, but a son is a completely different matter. It almost destroys you emotionally as a person (no, I haven't lived through it, but I know people who have. Plus just imagining my own son dying before me.. it makes me want to die as well).

They could kill off someone else.... like Richard or Perry, or Ma Kent. Heck, you can even have someone like Jimmy badly injured. I think there are other alternatives. They could also make Jason very sick due to whatever Brainiac does to him, so the only way to keep him alive is to place him in the Phantom Zone while Supes finds a cure.

I just think it's far more interesting to see Superman and Jason evolving together as father and son. I could see a "final' film called 'Superman: Legacy."

Now that's evolution.

[crazy_asian_man]

Last time I saw STM and SR there WERE alien spaceships in them already.

If Brainiac is deceiving Supes, then one would think that he'd try to have a similiar looking Kryptonian/crystal ship, if possible.

Once the deception is uncovered, wonder if that spaceship would take on a more sinister look, but still look like it was connected in some way to Krypton.

Also wonder: would more have been done with the Krypton moon beyond signalling Brainiac? It certainly is a creepy visual to think of a moon that's full of kryponite circling the earth- but I could see it be very plausible.

[Deleted]

Some more interesting thoughts pop to mind ...

1. I got the impression that Richard knew that Jason wasn't his son. Something about the way the car scene played as he dropped them off at the hospital struck me as saying 'he knows and he's always known but didn't have to deal with it until now.'

2. Would I write a story killing Jason? Beats me. But what I'm saying is that if there has to be a situation in which Jason dies, why not make it a noble one? Jason's sacrifice would still sit a heck of a lot better with people than Superman killing him. More to that end, if he can't save his son it really drives home that theme of 'Superman can't be everywhere and save everyone.'

3. I would write a story that kills either Superman or Jason. Why? Because if you're going to kill a character, go big. You only get one shot in a movie (as Bryan Singer now well knows), so go big. Killing Jonathan Kent was big. It was the only father Clark had ever known. Even so, Clark became Superman and kept moving forward. He could be written to do the same after the death of a child.

4. I like the idea that Superman and Lois won't end up together. Who said they had to? This is one of the mythology rules that I think can be bent for the sake of a good story. As a writer, the characters can do anything. These aren't real people. They're characters to be played with and explored (and I mean that in a totally non-sexual way, barring some time with Chloe Sullivan). Thank God for Elseworlds stories. They're usually my favorite of the comics.

5. If done well, Son of Superman, whether based on the graphic novel or as a different concept, would really let those characters continue to grow and mature. If done well.

[crazy_asian_man]

4. I like the idea that Superman and Lois won't end up together. Who said they had to? This is one of the mythology rules that I think can be bent for the sake of a good story.

Agreed. I liked the (implied) idea that Superman and Lois had their time, but that circumstances now give way to putting their own needs second as they step into the bigger role of parents.

The situation Singer came up with in SR, to me, is FAR more interesting than having Lois marry Supes in the comics.

To me, it's more poignant if Lois and Supes never get together ever again, but will 'always have Paris' (to use a Casablanca reference).

The thing that gets me, though, is.... once Supes knows who Jason is, is Supes content to stay away from him for so long without sharing to Jason who his real dad is? Strange again, but the outline never made it to script form (which I also find strange.... definitely there was plenty of time to do so while Singer was making "Valkyrie").

[stargazer01]

I'm actually ok with Supes and Lois never getting back together, I was much more interested in his new relationship with his son. So much potential, imo. But it seems to me that many fans really want Supes and Lois to end up together like in the current comics (and possibly the Smallville show). They don't want things to change too much.. I like change is done well.

I rather see a great drama with lots of action and tension for the big screen instead of a romantic comedy like Smallville, but that's me.

I still prefer for Jason to live. Kill someone else, not Superman's child. To me that's going too far for a film like this. I highly doubt anything would change my mind on this. I feel like those who are ok with his death think that it was a mistake to introduce him in the first place.

[Deleted]

There was no mistake in giving Superman a child. I'm just of a mind that the good Lord giveth and the good Lord taketh. Sick, I know.

[Valentine Smith]

I'm pretty firmly in the anti-Jason camp, and have been from the word go. However, I thought he was handled well in Superman Returns, and I ended up caring quite a bit more than I expected to. In particular, Routh's "Jor-El" speech to Jason at the end really moved me when I saw it in theaters.

The thing is, I don't think there are any good stories to be told involving him going forward, which is why I always felt SR felt like an ending and not a beginning. And were it the ending of something (well, in retrospect, it's turned out to be the end of a number of things, but that's neither here nor there), it would be wonderful. But I had zero interest in another movie involving Superman coming to terms with having a child, or this child developing super powers and hanging out with his Dad.

[crazy_asian_man]

I'm pretty firmly in the anti-Jason camp, and have been from the word go. However, I thought he was handled well in Superman Returns, and I ended up caring quite a bit more than I expected to. In particular, Routh's "Jor-El" speech to Jason at the end really moved me when I saw it in theaters.

The thing is, I don't think there are any good stories to be told involving him going forward, which is why I always felt SR felt like an ending and not a beginning. And were it the ending of something (well, in retrospect, it's turned out to be the end of a number of things, but that's neither here nor there), it would be wonderful. But I had zero interest in another movie involving Superman coming to terms with having a child, or this child developing super powers and hanging out with his Dad.

That's a good point--- but it's highly possible that Singer had the idea of killing him off the very second he introduced him- very gutsy.
In any case, at least would like to see what he had in mind in graphic novel form. (hope hope!)

[Deleted]

I agree with Val. If that was it for the Donner vision of Superman, it's a good place to put things to rest.

[crazy_asian_man]

I agree with Val. If that was it for the Donner vision of Superman, it's a good place to put things to rest.

I sort of agree... pity that there wasn't something a little more conclusive with Lois/Richard about the 'family issue', since this ended up being (apparently) it!

It could have been something quick where Lois mentions that she has something to share about Jason's parentage--- and Richard cutting her off & accepting the new role as foster father, so to speak.

In any case, it felt like there was at LEAST one more story in Singer to tell about Supes and the group; pity we won't see it....

[stargazer01]

Some say that SR felt more like the end of the story, and I don't completely disagree. It's one of the big mistakes Singer made with this film; much like Batman Begins and the Joker, Singer should have hinted a big villain/bigger threat coming at the end of SR. It could have made the fans more excited about a sequel.

Singer should have also introduced a minor super-villain other than Lex for Supes to fight at some point during the last part of the film. I was fine with the film the way it is for the most part, but many people really wanted to see something new and exciting, especially seeing Supes in a super fight. Yeah, Jason was new, but it wasn't what many expected... Personally, I liked the introduction of his son, and I saw it as a way to raise the stakes in a sequel and to show another side of Superman. I mean, the character has been out there for so many years, so I thought it was due time he had a son. But that's me.

SR was more like a drama (a great one) with some action in it, but it seems many wanted a comicbook action/adventure type of movie instead. Some just weren't very interested in the nuances and subtext of the character or in his personal relationship with Lois. I think those new things could have been incorporated in sequels...


Oh well, I guess SR is sort of a missed opportunity in a way. I really enjoy it, but Singer could have done almost the same story and still introducing new things people had never seen before in a Supes film. Yes, the plane rescue was awesome and new, imo, but many didn't really like the whole kryptonite island thing in the third act as the climax. They really wanted more "badass Superman," I think.

The saddest thing about all this for me is that Brandon won't play the character again because of the reboot. He really got the short stick in all of this. And no doubt it affected his rise.

[Melv]

I just think the end of the film should have had a badass ending with the island.

Lex should have been able to manipulate the crystal technology to fire missiles and other such things as Superman flies towards the island. Supes would have been a bit depowered because of the diluted Kryptonite and so would need help from the Navy and Airforce.

Imagine a sequence where Superman and a fleet of fighter jets attack the island together! He could push jets out of the way of missiles and make sure people eject their planes properly. All sorts!

It would have made it that much more exciting and people would want to see more.

[Jor-L5150]

we wathced SR again the other night.

there is no way richard does NOT know he's not the father.
he's not a dumbass, and lois wouldnt PWN him like that.
i think it's clearly implied that he met lois while early in her pregnancy and they hit it off, and being the prince charming that he is became a surrogate for jason.

------------------------------------

as to the sequel- i'd be completely behind it.
but here's some food for thought:
the SR writers spent half the time remaking STM, and the other half cobbling episodes from earlier scripts and treatments ( at superman homepage they review a lot of these and point out bits that ended up in SR )
given that singer's sequel and it owuld seem snyders superrevamp both feature brainiac... i wonder if goyer was able to "borrow" some of the S:MOS script treatment and infuse it with whatever the heck nolan thought was clever...

[crazy_asian_man]

I just think the end of the film should have had a badass ending with the island.

Lex should have been able to manipulate the crystal technology to fire missiles and other such things as Superman flies towards the island. Supes would have been a bit depowered because of the diluted Kryptonite and so would need help from the Navy and Airforce.

Imagine a sequence where Superman and a fleet of fighter jets attack the island together! He could push jets out of the way of missiles and make sure people eject their planes properly. All sorts!

It would have made it that much more exciting and people would want to see more.

Agreed. As much as I loved parts of SR, most all of the action sequences don't feel nearly as well conceived as I think it should have.

For example, in STM, much of what made the helicopter rescue (which, when you stop to think about it - on paper, it's pretty flat! Supes changes, flies, catches Lois, picks up a helicopter) was the crowd and the scale that was presented via all the different points of view suggested by Donner/Baird. (plus their reactions)

While there are moments of great wonder (the floating island with Supes below it)--- imagine that, plus some elements of IMMEDIATE TENSION throughout it--- via another supervillain.

The airforce/military strikes sound like it could DEFINITELY have raised the emotional excitement of the last act- (and heightened the level of Lex's insanity with military planes crashing into the land masses, while Lex is still intent on real estate)..... or even a supervillain created by Lex somehow (crystal artificial intelligence?) to battle Supes while he tries to regain his powers/ lift the island in his weakened state.

I agree with Star that the movie is mostly a drama, with some action bits, whereas with a little tweaking, it could have been equal parts spectacular on both ends.

Singer got the film out, without a preview...... if there was a preview audience, the danger is that they might not like Jason- but on the other hand, they might have just asked for more action.

O well. What coulda been....

[stargazer01]

Well, to me SR is still a great film, flaws and all, and would have LOVED to see a sequel. I love it just as much as STM, or probably more. Not sure, haven't seen it in a long time.. I can't even watch it right now because I KNOW it'd make me feel really bad and nostalgic.. hopefully some day I'll be able to watch it and not feel sad that all that potential was wasted and we never saw the sequel that, IMO, the film deserved.

[belloq]

definitely, the sequel sounds cool to me, and i think your earlier point of SR needing a teaser at the end a la Batman Begins is spot on. there seemed to be a few in there somewhere for Brainiac but for whatever reason didn't make it. hope we get to see those someday. after learning that Nolan's pretty much not involved with the new one, i have much more of a renewed interest in seeing the long cut of SR rather than Snyder's "Superman Screams", "Superfuckingman", or whatever its called.

[crazy_asian_man]

I still prefer for Jason to live. Kill someone else, not Superman's child. To me that's going too far for a film like this. I highly doubt anything would change my mind on this. I feel like those who are ok with his death think that it was a mistake to introduce him in the first place.

After mulling it over for a few days, I do wonder now (presuming- again- that we're not being led on a goose chase with this article & that the outline is the real deal)---

If MOS got made - with Jason's death & all..... how well would this have gone over with the general public? For sure, there would have been a 'holycrap I can't believe that they DID that!' factor.... and possibly one of the most horrific superhero films around.

For sure, it would make the cynical kids in my classrooms situp and take notice, but I'm not 100% sure it would make them go see the movie per se. But it would definitely grab a lot of attention....

[Deleted]

It'd be difficult to have Superman do a fly over the Earth and smile at the end of a movie when his son was killed and he killed him.

[Jimbo]

Dec 14, 2010 13:23:27 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

It'd be difficult to have Superman do a fly over the Earth and smile at the end of a movie when his son was killed and he killed him.

;D

[crazy_asian_man]

It'd be difficult to have Superman do a fly over the Earth and smile at the end of a movie when his son was killed and he killed him.

Well, maybe he wasn't that close to his son.

[Valentine Smith]

Man, have you guys noticed all the other movie and comic sites that have picked up on this important piece of Superman news? Wait, none have? That's because it's bullshit!!!!!

[stargazer01]

^that's probably right..... but we've gotta talk about something I guess....

[Valentine Smith]

ha! No, you're right. We've been pretty starved of actual news since the Snyder announcement.

[lois]

Interesting premise. I like the idea of Brainiac. I don't like Superman having to fight his own son, doesn't work IMHO.

Dec 11, 2010 12:16:43 GMT -5 @stargazer01 said:

I just think it's far more interesting to see Superman and Jason evolving together as father and son. I could see a 'final' film called 'Superman: Legacy".

Now that's evolution.

I really like that idea. Good title!

[belloq]

sure, but then Disney would sue yer ass