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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 26, 2011 10:38:14 GMT -5
Just curious what folks thought, as everyone here has seen SR, (and like it or love it), was curious how anyone would react to this odd situation of being led to believe you're the dad of this kid, then find out Superman was the dad all along.
Would you be ok with it, thinking: "Well, if I pick a fight with this guy, he can melt me into a pool of blood just by staring at me. Forget it. I'm not mentioning anything."
Or-
Would you say: "Superman, would you like to step outside?"
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 26, 2011 10:47:18 GMT -5
Well, I think this is a dopey question. I'm a jealous bastard, and have made it clear that I will strangle anyone that gets within touching distance of my girl. I'm trying to be better about that. Now, that aside...
I think one of the things that SR did very right was they made Richard a likeable, good (although thoroughly bland and one-dimensional) guy. You kind of suspect that he knows anyway, and he doesn't care. And why doesn't he care? Because he's a good guy and he loves Lois and he loves the kid, and the issue of biological paternity doesn't figure into it for him. Richard is almost played as Superman without powers, and ol' Cyclops pulled it off very well. It would have been WAY too easy to pull a "This is Lois' shady new boyfriend, and of course there's no way he can ever measure up to Superman, and on top of that he's a dick." Instead, we get a good guy who does a really good job of dealing with what must be a heck of an inferiority complex, but is smart enough to, for the most part, keep it to himself.
Now, what I can't understand is why a good dude like him is with such a vapid, ungrateful bitch like Lois, who is thoroughly unlikeable in SR.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 26, 2011 11:05:46 GMT -5
Well, I couldn't figure out how to better phrase the question. Another option was: "If you were Richard & found out Superman was the dad, who would you punch out? (a) Superman (b) Lois (c) the kid (d) Jimmy (e) Perry White"- but that would be dopier.
Seriously, you make good points--- but, if time went on, and he was never told the truth---- that's a giant pill to swallow- to have had Lois deceive BOTH Richard and the kid about the real dad for YEARS.
Now that Superman knows, he's part of the deception, if he didn't speak up.
I think the thought that the kid was 'always developing allergies and in the hospital in/out'- was a good way to throw off the idea that Superman was his kid early on. Storywise, it's also a good way for Richard NOT to suspect he wasn't Superman's kid.
It's a tough thing to forgive, realistically, curious who could in this fictional situation. And since everyone here's seen SR, what better place to pose the question?
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 26, 2011 11:12:38 GMT -5
My suspicion is that Richard has always sorta known, he just chooses not to make a big deal about it. And I got the impression at the end that when Supes says goodbye to all of them, he's basically saying "I'm not gonna interfere in this any further". The reason he recites the Jor-El speech is because he's giving Jason to Richard and Lois, and is accepting the fact that he can't be a real part of Jason's life.
And he SHOULD be comfortable doing that. Richard aptly demonstrates that he's a good guy when he risks his life to help Superman earlier in the flick, so he's seen that here is a guy who's as solid as Jonathan Kent was.
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Post by Jack Tripper on Sept 26, 2011 11:26:16 GMT -5
i'm pretty sure richard always knew that superman was the father.
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cypher85
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Post by cypher85 on Sept 26, 2011 11:27:11 GMT -5
Excellent reading of the speech Val. That's how I interpret the subtext in that scene as well.
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 26, 2011 11:40:35 GMT -5
There is more than that, Superman also promises to be their guardian. He also promises to be there when Jason really needs him with his growing/always evolving powers. Agreed. But he won't be %100 happy since I doubt he will be able to stop loving Lois or the desire to share more time with his son, but he will at least be at peace with himself and his place in the world. How ironic, Superman is loved by millions in this universe, yet he can't really be part of them. Talk about paying the price of fame or whatever. Do you guys wish his destiny was different like how he ends up married to Lois and has a more normal life in other versions? Or do you think the greater the power, the greater the responsibility? I guess in a real world, if Superman existed with the morals that he has, his destiny (in the personal level) would be similar to the events in SR. Tough stuff since he's still pretty much human in his heart. |
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matt
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Post by matt on Sept 26, 2011 11:58:43 GMT -5
He should go on the maury povich show.
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 26, 2011 12:36:13 GMT -5
Shouldn't Richard take it up with Lois? It's never explicitly said in the movie that Richard thinks he's the father. The movie actually dances around that quite a bit. It's only implied to screw with the audience.
This all would have been so awkward in a sequel. Richard is portrayed as a genuine person who the audience likes, and not some meathead the heroine is destined to ditch for the hero.
Compare that to Spider-Man 2, with MJ's new guy. He doesn't really do anything bad, but you're set up to not like him, and you expect her to ditch him for Peter at the end. None of that in SR.
Superman didn't even try winning her back in SR. Would he have done so in SR2?
Keeping Richard in the picture would have kept a lot of things in limbo. The intimacy between Superman and Lois would be really awkward because it'd be tantamount to adultery, and so what would the screenwriters do....make them ignore each other? Make Richard a jerk so Lois leaving him would make more sense?
Forget what Richard should do. James Marsden should fire his agent for getting him so many "third wheel" gigs. ;D
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 26, 2011 12:47:34 GMT -5
If I was Richard I would kill myself which would get the writers out of their corner.
Boring, bland, useless, contrived character. How many newspaper folk under 30 live in a $2M mansion over the NY river with a private (very) handy sea-plane? There is no realism or depth to the character to warrant serious discussion except by very abstract scenarios
However, unlike Hayden, you can tell he's a competent actor doing a thankless role.
And if you want a serious answer then he should do nothing. Like all jealous men, he should realise he cannot control the woman's feelings. Its Lois' decision; if she loves Richard (or does the impossible and finds him interesting) she'll stay with him
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Post by eccentricbeing on Sept 26, 2011 13:08:10 GMT -5
Now, what I can't understand is why a good dude like him is with such a vapid, ungrateful bitch like Lois, who is thoroughly unlikeable in SR. Maybe Richard is pussywhipped. |
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 26, 2011 13:33:06 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that James Marsden and Kate Bosworth were cast as husband and wife in Straw Dogs?
This time, Marsden is helpless to prevent his wife from getting gang-raped. Marsden can never catch a break. At least this time, he gets to shoot the guys taking his woman. ;D
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 26, 2011 13:48:05 GMT -5
First off, REAAAALLLY suprised that so many here feel that Richard suspected all along. Huh. Interesting.
Val, I like your interpretation of the Jor-el speech as being "I can't stick around, but I'll be there if you need me"- rather than a "I'm your real dad, not this Richard guy, remember that!"--- which I thought was a little funky because it could kind of be taken (at least a little bit) either way.
If it IS the first idea (Superman announcing he CAN'T interfere anymore)- then, it would have been nice to have seen Supes pass by Richard and say, "Take care of them." (with the subtext as: "I'm not gonna try to steal Lois or the kid from ya, don't worry anymore")- to really nail that in- if that's the true resolution.
But...
Given that there was hope for a sequel....
I do like what Jimbo said:
It's a pity that Singer didn't film some alternate endings, as a backup- if he was going to have everything resolved here.
I can see just one minute or two really finalizing things at the end of it:
Lois going back to Richard, saying "Yes" finally to his proposal, and before she went further, about to tell him about Supes being the dad- but him stopping her, telling her that he already knows (so that's a DEFINITE sense of closure)..... and Superman hearing it, and being ok with it and flying off to space to give us a grin.
I think it'd be a graceful way to not get TOO deep into a triangle (or is does a 4-pronged conflict have another name?).
At the very least, I'm SO impressed that they did not choose the easy route of making the guy a jerk, or not having the kid exist.
Did they write themselves in a corner? Not necessarily, (if writers could kill off Spock and bring him back in a good way, you can do almost anything properly in scifi/fantasy) but they made an intriguing writing challenge.
Mixing it in with the Kryptonians' arrival (that part is pretty confirmed at to what was going to happen in the sequel- Dougherty said so himself) would have been fascinating.... but I wish they had the opportunity to pull it off.
Still.... it's not hard to imagine a guy loving someone so much that they take another guy's kid as their own--- but being deceived about it..... hrrmmm.....
Personally, I think it is a big deal, so I was curious about how many other folks could/would take this same situation on. (I'm not sure I'd be crazy about having a guy with superhearing always able to listen in on me & my wife without always feeling like someone is watching)
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 26, 2011 13:51:03 GMT -5
I did catch that.
At first, I thought: "What lazy casting".... but then, after reading another producer's thoughts about how many things can go wrong in dealing with unstable emotions and actors (even the professional ones)--- that recasting and typecasting is almost a sure way to lessen a financial risk or creative risk for a movie, given how much can go wrong on a set. (Especially if they have to play at being married)
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 26, 2011 13:55:47 GMT -5
But back to the original question, Richard would be stupid to punch Superman. He'd break his hand.  |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 26, 2011 14:02:10 GMT -5
richard CAN'T punch superman without breaking his wrist.
and of course he's a good guy, even "dull". her last boyfriend was superman! she isn't going to settle for a douche bag, she wants a quality upstanding guy who will ...put up with her shit.
he's a good role model, he has a great career, he has no style of his own, good looking, aaaaaaannnnnnd puts up with her shit. besides, he isn;t going off to other planets at the drop of hat either.
he's a perfect catch. if i was a chick i'd want him.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Sept 26, 2011 14:27:52 GMT -5
Well technically, Richard wouldn't break his wrist on a punch unless he's made out of glass. He'd break the bones in his hand. Source: experience.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 26, 2011 14:46:11 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that James Marsden and Kate Bosworth were cast as husband and wife in Straw Dogs? In another remake no less |
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 26, 2011 15:15:07 GMT -5
;D
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 26, 2011 15:30:14 GMT -5
I didn't think Richard was a dull guy. What's a dull guy exactly?
He just seemed like a nice guy all around. He was a pilot (cool), and he liked horror movies (he liked exciting things!). According the SR novelization, he was also a good lover to Lois..
Plus he was good looking and had a good job. Sounds like a good catch to me too.
But yeah, compared with Superman, he's kinda dull. ;D
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 26, 2011 18:18:37 GMT -5
Star, in the future, can we place these things on a 'need to know' basis?
He was (written) pretty 1 dimensional to me. Boring "good guy" so its harder for Lois to make any decision. Yawn. At least we got a decent actor in the role
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 26, 2011 18:52:58 GMT -5
Well technically, Richard wouldn't break his wrist on a punch unless he's made out of glass. He'd break the bones in his hand. Source: experience. next time you call me. you LEAD with this. that's an order. |
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Post by eccentricbeing on Sept 27, 2011 11:41:34 GMT -5
;D
It's not truly what you think, but all right.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 28, 2011 13:22:05 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that James Marsden and Kate Bosworth were cast as husband and wife in Straw Dogs? This time, Marsden is helpless to prevent his wife from getting gang-raped. Marsden can never catch a break. At least this time, he gets to shoot the guys taking his woman. ;D And his other woman disintegrated him and tried to hook up with a scruffy looking metal clawed asshole. He really can't catch a break. |
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 28, 2011 13:26:50 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that James Marsden and Kate Bosworth were cast as husband and wife in Straw Dogs? This time, Marsden is helpless to prevent his wife from getting gang-raped. Marsden can never catch a break. At least this time, he gets to shoot the guys taking his woman. ;D And his other woman disintegrated him and tried to hook up with a scruffy looking metal clawed asshole. He really can't catch a break. And yet another woman left fairy tale land and hooked up with Patrick Dempsey. But it worked out in the end. He got Dempsey's leftovers. ;D |
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