Blu Ray Transfer of Superman 2 Theatrical

[verisimilitude]

I just wanted to ask if anyone else felt a bit underwhelmed by the quality of S2 Theatrical on Blu-ray.

Unlike the other Superman films, S2 looked overexposed, grainy and not particularly sharp, from what I could tell.

Perhaps this subject has already been discussed in depth on another thread and if so, I apologize, and am perfectly fine with this post being moved to another existing thread.

But I just wanted to see if this was as noticeable to you guys, as it was to me. I appreciate your feedback on this, as I prepare to begin work on the new Verisimilitude Cut.

Thanks

[Jimbo]

Nope, it looks fine to me. Remember, film can be pretty grainy, especially from that time period. Also, focus tended to be softer. Plenty of movies from that era seemed pretty soft.

S2 theatrical is probably the best looking movie in the set, followed by S3. Sadly, even the new remaster of STM is lacking. Softer than the rest.

[verisimilitude]

Thanks, Jimbo. I appreciate the response. I wonder if I just got a bad transfer or something. Odd...

[Jimbo]

Think of it this way: the transfer is so good, it exposes every bit of the photography. Big thanks to Warner for not smacking it with the DNR stick.

[booshman]

I agree that the transfer is great. The colours are so much nicer when compared to scenes from the Donner Cut. Compared to the old DVD version the bluray is gorgeous.

[Olly H 82]

Superman 2,3 and 4 all look great. The colourist at Warner bros made sure the suit matched in each one. Superman's outfit in Superman IV looks fab!

[Jimbo]

It just goes to show how film-to-digital transfer technology has improved since the early 2000s.

2000 digital master of Gladiator: i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Gladiator%20remastered/1c0b5c43.png
i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Gladiator/569c995d.png

2010 digital master of Gladiator: i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Gladiator%20remastered/a9a05f40.png
i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Gladiator%20remastered/0165da62.png

If only George Lucas had the same regard.

[crazy_asian_man]

Nope, it looks fine to me. Remember, film can be pretty grainy, especially from that time period. Also, focus tended to be softer. Plenty of movies from that era seemed pretty soft.

The weird thing about Superman II- is that when it first came out, there were some interesting differences on what people were saying:

(1) critics were talking about how washed out some of the colors seemed to be, versus the look of the first one-
(2) when this was brought up in an interview with Salkind, he was asked to verify if additional filters were used to hide the aging of the actors between the films (and make the film look uniform)- ie Sussanah York, Kidder- and Salkind just said that he couldn't be responsible for others' comments.

But on the flip side, you have interviews where it mentions that the cinematographer tried to match the soft focus chosen for STM...

So-
Was it the transfer or the original that's extra soft?

[verisimilitude]

Yeah, good question. Just watching the opening, where the camera pans left, approaching the white dome, it seems so obvious to me how grainy and old that footage looks, as compared to the same footage in STM.

Also, after the credits, the first scene at the DP looks overexposed, as well. Perhaps it's always been this way, but it was hard to tell, because of the poor brownish quality of S2 up till now.

Maybe some scenes are worse than others, but for me, it seems that the scenes with Lex and Eve at the FOS, for example, look better in the RDC, just as they did on dvd, as well. But based on the response I've gotten in this thread, I'm beginning to wonder if dementia is setting in at 42. LOL

[Jimbo]

Feb 24, 2012 13:03:27 GMT -5 verisimilitude said:

Just watching the opening, where the camera pans left, approaching the white dome, it seems so obvious to me how grainy and old that footage looks, as compared to the same footage in STM.

That is due to the fade transition - the fade to the guard's helmet. When doing that in the optical days, they'd run the same film through the printer a few times in order to achieve the fade transition. When that happens, the quality degrades with each pass, dirt and dust can get captured, and the picture gets faded. Similar to making a photocopy of a document over and over. Eventually the quality will go away.

A famous example of that is in Star Wars - when you see the landspeeder at Mos Eisley with the Vaseline on the lens to obscure the wheels. They did that several times to get the right blurring effect, causing that shot to look hazy and faded.

That's also why several effects-heavy films in the old days, like Star Trek TMP, Blade Runner, 2001 shot the effects on 65mm film. With that much added resolution, by the time everything was composited, the drop in quality was still comparable to 35mm film, and everything looked good.

STM and S2 likely did not have the financial means to afford 65mm model work.

[crazy_asian_man]

STM and S2 likely did not have the financial means to afford 65mm model work.

It's amazing how even then in 1980 even with those passes, all those effects & footage look far, far better than the $2 effects Thau implemented in 2006 for the RDC....

[Jimbo]

It's amazing how even then in [1977,] 1980[,] [1983] even with those passes, all those effects & footage look far, far better than the $2 effects Thau [Lucas] implemented in 2006[1997, 2004, 2011] for the RDC.... [Star Wars]

[EvilSupes]

Feb 24, 2012 0:27:23 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

Nope, it looks fine to me. Remember, film can be pretty grainy, especially from that time period. Also, focus tended to be softer. Plenty of movies from that era seemed pretty soft.

S2 theatrical is probably the best looking movie in the set, followed by S3. Sadly, even the new remaster of STM is lacking. Softer than the rest.

Agree cpmpletely, but SIV looks damn good as well in blu-ray.

[verisimilitude]

Okay, maybe I need to put S2 on the big screen tv, and see if it suddenly looks the way y'all describe. I've only watched it on my laptop, but I would assume that on a bigger screen, it's only going to expose the flaws that much more. What the heck, I'll hook up the external hard drive, and see if magic happens. That would be wonderful. I want all the Lester footage to look just as good as the Donner footage, as I prepare to begin the editing process. Thanks to y'all for weighing in on this.

[TylerDurden389]

I'm hoping for the fan editor that made "Superman Redeemed" (S3 & S4 combines into 1 film) redoes his fan edit is HD as well.

[verisimilitude]

So many talented editors out there. I think it's great the way these movies inspired so many people to work hard to create something special for fans. The effect that the Superman films have had is really remarkable.

[Jimbo]

Feb 24, 2012 16:49:49 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

I'm hoping for the fan editor that made "Superman Redeemed" (S3 & S4 combines into 1 film) redoes his fan edit is HD as well.

ADigitalMan hasn't been around in a while.

[Kamdan]

I was mostly pleased with the transfer, but the problems with it really show through during the credits. At times, you can barely read them out.

[Gandy]

I actually like that it's not perfect-- it kinda looks like a historical document.

[TylerDurden389]

Feb 24, 2012 17:20:27 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

ADigitalMan hasn't been around in a while.[/quote]
I was afraid someone would say that lol. Honestly though, with the exception of the new opening credits, and that one shot where Supes crushes the coal to make a diamond (where they digitally removed Richard Pryor from the shot), Redeemed was pretty much a "cut and paste" edit. Probably not that difficult to do. One of these days I'm gonna get a better computer, find myself some better software that can handle HD video and I'll do it myself.

[crazy_asian_man]

ADigitalMan hasn't been around in a while.

I was afraid someone would say that lol. Honestly though, with the exception of the new opening credits, and that one shot where Supes crushes the coal to make a diamond (where they digitally removed Richard Pryor from the shot), Redeemed was pretty much a "cut and paste" edit. Probably not that difficult to do. One of these days I'm gonna get a better computer, find myself some better software that can handle HD video and I'll do it myself.
[/quote]

I'm curious myself as to how this "Superman Redeemed" cut came together- the idea of blending Supes 3 & 4 cohesively (and removing most of the rotten parts) is fascinating to me.

[TylerDurden389]

Feb 25, 2012 18:01:57 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I'm curious myself as to how this "Superman Redeemed" cut came together- the idea of blending Supes 3 & 4 cohesively (and removing most of the rotten parts) is fascinating to me.

It was pretty brilliant. You can probably see the cutlist on the fanedit.org page for the edit itself, but basically it's S3 scenes intercut with Lex S2 deleted scene (with the car), and Lex S4 scenes. Once most of the S3 scenes with Lana are done, then we cut to S2 Paris scene (the editor probably felt that, with the Donner Cut not using this scene, it is no longer canon). The hydrogen bomb is what makes Superman decide to remove Nuclear Weapons. Then it's mostly S4 until Nuclear Man harms Supes. Instead of getting sick, we then cut to the "evil " S3 stuff intercut with Lex S4 stuff. After Supes is good again it's S4 until the end. Then it's just all the ending scenes from both films until credits. It's mostly a "cut and Paste" edit, but there's one shot where he digitally removed Richard Pryor. And he also made his own opening credits in the style of STM.

[EvilSupes]

Cannot wait to see these again in blu! All this talk has stirred my interest.

[TylerDurden389]

Just gotta say, I'm glad my 3 favorite editors (Boosh, Veris, and Jim) are redoing their edits in HD.

[Jimbo]

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but mine will be on the back burner for some time.

Also, I don't think I would go with the same FOS back-and-forth that I had initially (as seen in the YouTube clips).

My goal would be to make the ABC Cut - slapstick + Jor-El repowering - cellophane/finger powers. I might keep the Lara scenes intact, though I would remove the "Kryptonian Elder" and use Jor-El.