Did Donner really shoot all the Fortress material?

[clarkkent1948]

I figure that all the Fortress scenes were shot, but some lost, another "lost" scene would be Superman and Lois' arrival at the Fortress. Unless they needed that Lester scene to preserve continuity with the following dinner scene. But then again why was Lester's dinner used in favor of Donner's, if Donner shot a Dinner scene.

[adam15]

There is a part of the STM DVD where they're showing different actors testing in the Superman outfit and it ends with Kidder in the shirt. Was this a test shot of Lois or is it part of the real scene?? I also saw a bit with Lois spinning around while wearing the shirt; there must be a scene out there! The Donner cut was good but it was missing a few crucial pieces. If these scenes are found they can help flesh out the middle of the film and the love story will be more than a highlights package. So the question is why weren't these scenes put into the DVD? I think it's the same reason why Thau didn't put in most of the extended TV scenes, there wasn't enough time or money to do so. Also, remember the picture on this site of Superman flying away from the fortress? No one knows were it belongs: it probably belongs in the SII Donner fortress scenes. Well this may just be wishfull thinking, but I hope we can get confirmation of this one way or the other.

[clarkkent1948]

Yeah, I agree. In spite of finally getting a Donner Cut, there are still alot of missing pieces of the puzzle when it comes to footage (whether it be close-ups, inserts or entire scenes) we know was shot but still absent from the film.

[crazy_asian_man]

There is a part of the STM DVD where they're showing different actors testing in the Superman outfit and it ends with Kidder in the shirt. Was this a test shot of Lois or is it part of the real scene??

The first thought that would come to mind is that they shot Lois' reactions in the Depowering scene--- but... there wouldn't have been any sane reason why Thau would have left it on the ground, if so.

The bts bit on the RDC disc shows Thau's team going through notebooks of what was and wasn't shot.... although there was a rush to shoot Brando's and Hackman's fortress scenes- is it at all possible that a lot of the other Fortress scenes with Reeve and Donner just got canned because of pressures to do the rest of the film? (and the feeling that they might be a lot easier to get back to shoot stuff, as opposed to Hackman/Brando?)

In the end, hopefully there's more Donner stuff that we get a chance to see either in additional deleted scenes or reinserted in an extended cut. I guess only Thau (and anyone with access to those notebooks) would know for sure what got shot...

(*sigh*)

[HOSNI]

All this Donner fortress talk got me thinking about some further possibilities with the depowering scenes. Using available footage could one of the fan cutters try to add some more Lois into the equation?

I don’t have the capability to create clips. The Lois shots are quick, but given the lack of movement in each I’d imagine they could be slowed down and still achieve the desired effect.

(Perhaps Selutron might be inspired to complete his depowering clip…)

[crazy_asian_man]

Hey Hosni,
Most of the fan cuts I've seen have incorporated (Mav cut, Veris cut, Jimbo cut, RKS cut- very nicely, I might add) Lester's Lois closeups to replace Lois's double in the RDC depowering scene.

I experimented myself with using the documentary footage of Lois w/bad hair and Supe's costume, but her lack of reaction reallly stands out. I did another attempt at rotoscoping the Superman costume onto Lester's Lois closeups that were ok... but had issues with getting her hand gestures in that short scene to work.

Even with today's software, lopping off heads/changing clothes on people is tricky stuff. Even Selutron has difficulty nailing it just right (check out his 'Superman reveal' scene with the pink bear).

For my own two cents, looking at the cuts w/Lester's closeups sacrifice the idea of Donner's original idea of Lois wearing nothing but Supes' shirt- but emotionally, it's a heckuva lot stronger with her closeup reactions, even if she's not wearing what she was supposed to in the original script.

In the end...all these discussions pretty much makes us all long for another/better extended Donner cut...((*sigh*))

[adam15]

so there is footage of Lois in the s shirt? I haven't seen the newest superman dvds, is it a documentary? Also, why does Lois's hair look wieird?

[Pineapples101]

Sept 3, 2008 23:38:13 GMT -5 @adam15 said:

so there is footage of Lois in the s shirt? I haven't seen the newest superman dvds, is it a documentary? Also, why does Lois's hair look wieird?

Wow man! You have to pick up the Ultimate Box Set with all the Superman films and the docu's, you have to pick it up NOW! It's been going quite cheap at places like CD-WOW.

There is close up footage of Lois in the S shirt in some of the docu's, but IIRC it's test footage for lighting and such, she's smiling through most of it, so it would be no good.

Maybe Donner never shot the close ups, maybe he just shot the wide stuff where he would need the full fortress set in the background and left the close up stuff to be shot on a pick up set with a smaller background piece?

[adam15]

Well, I do kinda want to listen to all the commentaries. Does Illya say anything interesting?

[Jimbo]

Ilya says some pretty good things. It's one of the few times he gets to tell his side of story. The previous stuff is all pro-Donner, but for these commentaries, we get the other perspective. It's really clear how enthusiastic he was about making these films. He had some good arguments, and was funny at times.

Superman 3 commentary was funnier because he was trying to defend a sinking ship. Him arguing that the WALK/DONT WALK signs fighting was indeed possible.....Priceless. ;D

[chrisreeve]

The Margot in Supe's shirt all seem to be wig tests for Lois. None of them seem to be reaction shots to the depowering. They seem to match the footage in the 2001 docu when the camera pans vertically on a thinner Reeve in full costume.

At the time of the screentests, Margot's real hair had a brownish tinge as we see in the blank bullet's screentest.

A short curly Noel Neill-type wig was used for her balcony screentest.

A long glamour type brush back was used for her smiling color/wig/costume test.

And a slightly longer than the short one was used in the still above from the newer docus which obviously look like another color/wig/costume test.

Ultimately, at least for most of STM, they used her real hair dyed a darker shade. It looks though that they added a fall/extension on the top bun in the balcony/flight sequences.

[atp]

Donner lied

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 5, 2022 11:35:21 GMT -5 atp said:

Donner lied

If he did, didn't matter to me.... I'm glad we got to see SOME of what he shot that we never did.... but not enough has been released to me! (And who knows if it ever will)