When are we going to see Selutron's Superman 2?

[atp]

Anyone?

Anyone?

[atp]

Bueller?

[matt]

It will never be finished or made. I'm still interested what the so called secret ending was? I'm looking forward to Booshman's edit. That will be really neat!

[Kirok]

I understand him holding out hope to be involved in a new official version of SII, but hopefully there's an expiration date of sorts he has in mind when he'll give that up just go ahead and make a proper fan edit so we can see all his ideas realized in the proper context. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for WB to take another stab at SII. Selutron's work was very impressive and I can only imagine what he could do if given access to the raw materials in the WB vaults. I just don't see it happening. SR was the last hurrah for that era of Superman, and I think WB has closed the book on it for good at this point.

[Jimbo]

Things more likely to happen before Selutron's Superman II cut:

- George Lucas personally releasing the original versions of Star Wars, with his blessing and apologies

- Enrique falling in love with the LOTR movies

- Jimmy Hoffa's body being found

[crazy_asian_man]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for WB to take another stab at SII.

If MOS is a GIANT TDK-like hit, if Snyder (or Nolan) were passionate about a recut of SII .....I wonder if that would be the ONLY case where it COULD be a possibility at this point?

If only we knew what it would take (for sure)...
*sigh*

[Gandy]

I have no idea. I haven't asked him about it. Hopefully he will spill it.
Personally, I don't care about it. I just prefer the movies as they are, warts and all.

[crazy_asian_man]

I have no idea. I haven't asked him about it. Hopefully he will spill it.
Personally, I don't care about it. I just prefer the movies as they are, warts and all.

I wish I could have the same reaction to it, it's just difficult going from the perfectionism that was in STM (*By that I mean the directing/editing- the story elements like the time reversal is wonky, though emotionally it works as a punctuation mark of sorts.... since the movie was originally supposed to end on a cliffhanger as the big thing, not Lois' death) to the either incomplete or fractured feeling that comes from watching the theatrical or the RDC.

IRC comes the closest to feeling like part two of STM imo. Again, if WB just releases that widescreen dvd, I'd be happy enough.... but it certainly doesn't seem like there's any noise about ANYTHING for SII for dvd---- if there's nothing by the time MOS comes out, I'm resigned to the fact that the possibility of any return to an extended or alternate SII is dead dead dead.

[TylerDurden389]

Feb 2, 2013 11:33:34 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

IRC comes the closest to feeling like part two of STM imo. Again, if WB just releases that widescreen dvd, I'd be happy enough.

Same here. And considering it wouldn't really cost anything, I don't see why they wouldn't. I know it's waaaay too early to be saying this, but let's face it. After MOS is released in theaters, whether it does well or not, chances are WB will re-release ALL the movies in a new set AGAIN. Hopefully this time they give us more special features like they did with the Returns' Krypton scene.

[Kirok]

Yeah I'd love to see an extended edition of SR with all the deleted scenes (some of which have still never been released) reinserted. I don't know if you could call it a director's cut, where does Singer stand on the theatrical version, btw?

Although with SR being such a recent failure, I doubt that happening even more than another SII (which was a least a successful, beloved film to begin with).

[crazy_asian_man]

Yeah I'd love to see an extended edition of SR with all the deleted scenes (some of which have still never been released) reinserted. I don't know if you could call it a director's cut, where does Singer stand on the theatrical version, btw?

The only time I'd ever heard about Singer wanting to go back and do a director's cut was on X-men--- don't remember if it was rumor or on the commentary that when X2 was being filmed, that he was going to take the opportunity to reshoot things he couldn't for X1.... that was going to become 'Xmen 1.5' (Sort of like how 'Spiderman 2.1' was formed with CGI bits being finished and added to it)....

Instead, the story goes, once shooting got underway with X2--- it was decided that it was just better to focus on X2--- and Xmen 1.5 dvd just became a dvd of the same movie, but with a ton more extras...

So--- anyhow, outside of that instance, never read about Singer having any other interest to go back to any of his theatrical cuts for a recut.

But--- he definitely seems like someone a bit indecisive. He says as much in his speech to his SR crew in the bts footage..... and, there were the multiple openings discussed (I wish we could have seen the comic book opening that art was actually done for on the dvd) for SR as well.

Oh well. Maybe it's better that he keeps working on new stuff, than go back to his old stuff in the long run....

[Ollie W]

Feb 2, 2013 10:28:46 GMT -5 Gandy said:

I have no idea. I haven't asked him about it. Hopefully he will spill it.
Personally, I don't care about it. I just prefer the movies as they are, warts and all.

Hey Gandy I thought after meeting Selutron and seeing his proposed ending that you were on board with his vision.

Do I take it that you have changed your mind or do you just think it's very unlikely to ever surface?

[crazy_asian_man]

My own theory is that the "Swarm" footage that Selutron used to blend (brilliantly I think) with SII- could definitely set a precedent that WB might not want to open, unfortunately. The "Swarm" stuff might only be a small percentage of Selutron's recut (or not), but right off the bat, that's what stands out as one big potential barrier, I would think.

And then--- would WB want to piss off Donner by doing another recut without his approval?
(Or other directors that might see this as an example of what could happen to their films without being asked?)

[Jimbo]

Feb 4, 2013 13:55:55 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

And then--- would WB want to piss off Donner by doing another recut without his approval?

WB ain't touching those movies again.

"Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

[crazy_asian_man]

WB ain't touching those movies again.

"Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

;D

Yeah....
I guess if the RDC sold billions, it might be a possibility- and/or if there was any 'powerhouse' at Hollywood who felt it HAD to get done, it might be different- but....yeah, I know. The odds I bet are far smaller for a second cut than a first.

But it still boggles the mind how a bomb like "Alexander" gets THREE directors cuts on dvd.

*sigh*

[Jimbo]

Oliver Stone has clout, for whatever reason. They probably gifted him the first recut, and he probably bullied his way to get the second one.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oliver Stone has clout, for whatever reason. They probably gifted him the first recut, and he probably bullied his way to get the second one.

That's what I find hard to understand.... how can anyone bully a company to put money into producing and marketing another version of a movie? (I think I mainly want to know just so I can tell someone else to do the same for SII)

[Kirok]

There's a precedent for another edit. "Dune" has several versions. "Blade Runner" has several versions. Both are sci-fi cult classics from the 80s. You'd think "Superman II" actually being a successful, profitable, and popular film would give it an edge of those. Not to mention it being a part of an ongoing, highly successful brand like Superman. Dune and Blade Runner on the other hand are, for all intents and purposes, dead franchises.

But I'd also like an extended cut of "Batman Forever" while were at it. Neither seems likely at this point.

[Jimbo]

Dune and Blade Runner are cult classics with a visible fanbase. The Reeve Superman movies don't have that kind of following. I'd love to see a more dramatic and less immature cut of Batman Forever also.

[Scissorpuppy]

Feb 5, 2013 5:38:16 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Oliver Stone has clout, for whatever reason. They probably gifted him the first recut, and he probably bullied his way to get the second one.

That's what I find hard to understand.... how can anyone bully a company to put money into producing and marketing another version of a movie? (I think I mainly want to know just so I can tell someone else to do the same for SII)

Alexander was a large budgeted film and flopped at the Box Office. Stone blamed it on the "Right wing media" who sabotaged the film publicly due to the film depicting Alexander being gay. For some reason they didn't take into account that Colin Farrell isn't (still isn't) a box office draw and that the movie sucked.

When the film was released on home video WB asked Stone to recut the film to add more action and "less gay stuff". Stone agreed to do so if he could have the option of doing another recut at a later date.

Stone has recently said he wanted to do a FOURTH cut of the film!

As for Superman, I think it is just a legal mess. WB may own the film, but you have two different directors & independent producers. There are a lot of people to sign off for a project like this. With something like Alexander WB outright owns the film and was trying to recoup the losses on the home video market. Blade Runner had legal issues for years due to rights, the Final Cut project was started by Ridley Scott in the late 90's for the 20th anniversary release but it stalled until 2006. Blade Runner got off the ground because the Director was pushing for it, if Scott wasn't apart of the project WB probably wouldn't have pushed to get the issues resolved.

Each of the examples have very different situations, but that still doesn't explain why WB won't just release the already created TV cuts of the films. There is a decent sized fanbase who would buy those.

If Donner or anyone else was really pushing for it, it might happen. But Donner seems to be happy with the RDC, and Lester with the original cut.

[Jimbo]

^Absolutely, all of it. I'd might as well lock the thread now. ;D

[crazy_asian_man]

As for Superman, I think it is just a legal mess. WB may own the film, but you have two different directors & independent producers. There are a lot of people to sign off for a project like this. With something like Alexander WB outright owns the film and was trying to recoup the losses on the home video market. Blade Runner had legal issues for years due to rights, the Final Cut project was started by Ridley Scott in the late 90's for the 20th anniversary release but it stalled until 2006. Blade Runner got off the ground because the Director was pushing for it, if Scott wasn't apart of the project WB probably wouldn't have pushed to get the issues resolved.

Each of the examples have very different situations, but that still doesn't explain why WB won't just release the already created TV cuts of the films. There is a decent sized fanbase who would buy those.

If Donner or anyone else was really pushing for it, it might happen. But Donner seems to be happy with the RDC, and Lester with the original cut.

Makes total sense. The really odd thing is how removed Donner was from the Donner cut (according to Thau)- until the last minute. We know he didn't get paid to be involved in it at all- (which is yet another insult)- but was WB even required to ask Donner for permission to recut it? I know Thau said he asked for Donner's blessing, but one wonders if contractually it was required. (We know that directors have the right to remove their names from the credits, but did Donner have a right to final cut of anything SII related if he was let go before the completion of it?)

In any case-
Maybe any new petition might be more realistically be for WB to release the tv cuts of STM and SII- (and hopefully restored).

Pity-
I would have loved to have seen a decent official Donner cut of SII in my lifetime.
*sigh*

[ChrisM]

Feb 5, 2013 18:15:46 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

Dune and Blade Runner are cult classics with a visible fanbase. The Reeve Superman movies don't have that kind of following. I'd love to see a more dramatic and less immature cut of Batman Forever also.

I think more people have heard of Christopher Reeve's Superman than Blade Runner. The average person has never even heard of Blade Runner.

[Jimbo]

It doesn't matter how many people have heard of it. It's a matter of how many will pay for it.

Numbers pulled from Amazon:

Blade Runner 3-disc Blu-ray:
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #1,385 in Movies & TV

#21 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Science Fiction
#48 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Mystery & Thrillers
#81 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Action & Adventure

Dune Blu-ray:
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #4,699 in Movies & TV

#45 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Fantasy
#89 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Science Fiction


Superman Anthology Blu-ray:
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #5,687 in Movies & TV

Superman/S2DC/SR combo Blu-ray:
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #10,596 in Movies & TV

Superman (movie only) Blu-ray:
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #24,657 in Movies & TV

Yes, there are more people buying Dune than Superman.

[Scissorpuppy]

Feb 7, 2013 12:32:58 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

As for Superman, I think it is just a legal mess. WB may own the film, but you have two different directors & independent producers. There are a lot of people to sign off for a project like this. With something like Alexander WB outright owns the film and was trying to recoup the losses on the home video market. Blade Runner had legal issues for years due to rights, the Final Cut project was started by Ridley Scott in the late 90's for the 20th anniversary release but it stalled until 2006. Blade Runner got off the ground because the Director was pushing for it, if Scott wasn't apart of the project WB probably wouldn't have pushed to get the issues resolved.

Each of the examples have very different situations, but that still doesn't explain why WB won't just release the already created TV cuts of the films. There is a decent sized fanbase who would buy those.

If Donner or anyone else was really pushing for it, it might happen. But Donner seems to be happy with the RDC, and Lester with the original cut.

Makes total sense. The really odd thing is how removed Donner was from the Donner cut (according to Thau)- until the last minute. We know he didn't get paid to be involved in it at all- (which is yet another insult)- but was WB even required to ask Donner for permission to recut it? I know Thau said he asked for Donner's blessing, but one wonders if contractually it was required. (We know that directors have the right to remove their names from the credits, but did Donner have a right to final cut of anything SII related if he was let go before the completion of it?)

In any case-
Maybe any new petition might be more realistically be for WB to release the tv cuts of STM and SII- (and hopefully restored).

Pity-
I would have loved to have seen a decent official Donner cut of SII in my lifetime.
*sigh*

Due to the way the Superman films were made, WB probably really only had to get the Salkinds permission. Considering they don't seem to have had any major projects lined up since the early 90's, they probably welcomed the cash.

I don't think a typical "for hire" Director can outright stop a project like this, but there are guidelines with the DGA on how they are approached. I'm also not sure if older films are grandfathered in with newer rules. Regardless, I'm pretty sure since Donner was let go, fired, left (whatever depending on who tells the story) he control/input with Superman 2 stopped the moment he was off the project. One thing is for sure, without his blessing WB couldn't have called it Superman II : The Richard Donner Cut.

The biggest hurdle in making the project happen was probably the Brando issue, once he died so did his grudge. I'm not sure what deal was cut with his estate, but I'm certain it was a much lower number than he would have settled for.

I don't find it too odd that Donner was removed, he seemed to be bitter about the whole thing and never really got over it. He probably didn't come around until Thau showed him that the footage existed and some kind of version of the original intention could be salvaged.