Who is most responsible for ruining MoS?

[atp]

Who is most responsible for ruining MoS?

Try to vote, please.

[EnriqueH]

Snyder.

As director, he's ultimately in control.

[Jimbo]

Other - People who hated Superman Returns.

[ye5man]

Whoever wrote it

[Deleted]

Yourself, I guess. I didn't think anyone ruined it, I loved it, therefore, it must be you.

[cypher85]

Nothing

[Melv]

I can't see how it can have been ruined as it never changed from what it always was.

Maybe the question should be 'Who thought this would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.'

Your expectations were the problem.

[Metallo]

Well my expectations were tempered. I was ready to let Snyder and co do whatever they want as long as it was good. I didn't expect it to be perfect either.

As for the question: tough call. I'm going to say Snyder. It's close between him or WB I doubt WB told him to make a kind of dumb kind of heartless movie. I imagine he could have made the merchandise shilling commercial they wanted and something better than what we got.

[ye5man]

Sept 12, 2013 20:26:50 GMT -5 Melv said:

Your expectations were the problem.

My expectations were just to be entertained. I've (willingly) seen Supey IV at the cinema more times than MOS. Still no real desire to revisit.

[Melv]

Still doesn't mean it was 'ruined' in any way. It is the same as it ever was. It just wasn't what some of us wanted it to be.

[subzero]

i agree with kev, u ruined it for yourself, me...i loved it

[atp]

So does this mean the Star Wars prequels were all actually good and it was only our "expectations" that were the problem?

And did our "expectations" cause the problems with KOTCS?

[ye5man]

Sept 13, 2013 4:29:30 GMT -5 Melv said:

Still doesn't mean it was 'ruined' in any way.

That's true. ATP could have sentenced his question better

[EnriqueH]

Sept 13, 2013 5:24:19 GMT -5 atp said:

So does this mean the Star Wars prequels were all actually good and it was only our "expectations" that were the problem?

And did our "expectations" cause the problems with KOTCS?

ATP's new name is Vulcan: T'Vor---The Voice of Reason

[ye5man]

Question for Kevin: Who is most responsible for ruining "Die Hard 5"?

[Metallo]

Sept 13, 2013 5:16:34 GMT -5 subzero said:

i agree with kev, u ruined it for yourself, me...i loved it

Sept 13, 2013 4:29:30 GMT -5 Melv said:

Still doesn't mean it was 'ruined' in any way. It is the same as it ever was. It just wasn't what some of us wanted it to be.

Well at some point mistakes were made. It didn't always exist as it was. Films are made in stages. From the concept stage to the final product choices were made. For some people those choices didn't work. I can't speak for everyone but my problems with it were do to execution not necessarily content. I didn't go in "expecting" anything but a good film. I had no image of what Superman "should" be except what Snyder and Goyer said it was but the film isn't even consistent with itself and what they said. Those are mistakes. So no not everyone ruined of for themselves. The guys saying it was one thing when it wasn't ruined it. It's their product. Don't tell people the film is going to do something when it doesn't.

[crazy_asian_man]

Well at some point mistakes were made. It didn't always exist as it was. Films are made in stages. From the concept stage to the final product choices were made. For some people those choices didn't work. I can't speak for everyone but my problems with it were do to execution not necessarily content. I didn't go in "expecting" anything but a good film.

For me, some of it was content (what was different at some points were fine, other points were terrible conceptually imo just on a dramatic level to itself- a first meeting of Lois and Clark that results in heat vision surgery doesn't have a lot of magic or wonder to it).... but a chunk is editing/execution.

If Snyder had made MOS as refined as Watchmen- I would have liked it better, although I'd still most likely complain about how many of the dramatic scenes weren't staged/edited well (much like Watchmen) or awkwardly (Lois slowly stepping down stairs as Supes holds the dead Zod, just in time for an embrace).

It's not prejudice against Snyder- a bad director can turn around and do a good movie that can surprise. A great director can turn around and make a horrible movie and suprise in a bad way (TDKR imo).

I am curious as heck if editing can 'save' some of the dramatic clunkiness I experienced with Mos- (it seemed to help a lot with the RDC in seeing fan cuts)--- which is why I also felt an extended could make great improvements to MOS. (And Watchmen for that matter).

I don't know if Snyder 'ruined' MOS--- but I'm curious if the movie he made is 100% what he set out to do. Goyer (to his credit) said that 70%- not 100%- of the movie was what he envisioned with his script. There's a good number of commentaries where directors reflect on mistakes they're confident to admit could be better, and there's hope for improvement--- but other commentaries are just self-congratulatory and one shakes their head that they don't see some of their own flaws in their work and may keep doing the same mistakes others see over and over and over....

[Deleted]

Everything ruined Die Hard 5, KOTCS and the prequels, not just expectations. I don't know anyone who even remotely likes any of those. That to me means it's not a matter of opinion or expectations, the movies were just awful and pretty much everyone on the planet feels the same, it would seem anyhow. Meanwhile, I don't know anyone who even remotely disliked MOS, while I know there are plenty who don't out there, so that must make it a matter of opinion. It worked for some but not all. That means to some, it wasn't ruined.

When EVERYONE thinks something is shit, it's more than likely shit. When SOME people think something is shit, well, it's shit to them, they can hate whatever, it's fine, no need to create a silly crybaby thread about it because of what someone said, but if it ain't everyone, it ain't shit. It's opinion. And some of you just CANNOT accept others opinions, for entertaining board personality purposes or for real, whatever, but it's just so sad it has now become ADORABLE!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

[EnriqueH]

What was it about that 2nd half that brought the movie down from a 8-10 to about a 6?

It has been months now and I can't put my finger on it.

[crazy_asian_man]

What was it about that 2nd half that brought the movie down from a 8-10 to about a 6?

It has been months now and I can't put my finger on it.

I'm only guessing...off of memory and not really being able to speak for anyone else- but...

The first half more/less presented a mystery of who Superman was--- and bits of his history were brought out in scenes, setting up for the first confrontation with Zod and company- the movie does move fairly fast up to the first battle-
(I still think they would have been better off just building on the first battle, rather than having them run away to adjust to the new environment for ten minutes)

Then the second half focused primarily on stopping Zod's terraforming plot- and there wasn't more character stuff being revealed. My guess is that the drive of the first half was getting to really know who this character was,
but by the time just after the first battle- the focus is purely on stopping the larger threat- which I think might have been fine- but if you don't feel like you've gotten to know/care enough about the characters, it can be pretty dull if you don't feel connected enough to just let it be about the action.

[EnriqueH]

That sounds about right.

Like they didn't build up to the battle.

When Bane and Batman fought, I was at the edge of my seat. That didn't happen with Superman-Zod.

[Deleted]

This board keeps going in the same circle, enough to even annoy a NASCAR driver.

[Melv]

Sept 13, 2013 10:20:40 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Sept 13, 2013 5:16:34 GMT -5 subzero said:

i agree with kev, u ruined it for yourself, me...i loved it

Sept 13, 2013 4:29:30 GMT -5 Melv said:

Still doesn't mean it was 'ruined' in any way. It is the same as it ever was. It just wasn't what some of us wanted it to be.

Well at some point mistakes were made. It didn't always exist as it was. Films are made in stages. From the concept stage to the final product choices were made. For some people those choices didn't work. I can't speak for everyone but my problems with it were do to execution not necessarily content. I didn't go in "expecting" anything but a good film. I had no image of what Superman "should" be except what Snyder and Goyer said it was but the film isn't even consistent with itself and what they said. Those are mistakes. So no not everyone ruined of for themselves. The guys saying it was one thing when it wasn't ruined it. It's their product. Don't tell people the film is going to do something when it doesn't.

They made their film and you didn't like it. The film itself doesn't state anywhere that it was going to be the most realistic superhero film. You built it up because you expected too much. It may have been bad but it wasn't ruined.

The film can only have been ruined if you saw a previous version that was 'better' and they changed it for the worse. That never happened.

[Metallo]

Sept 13, 2013 20:47:38 GMT -5 Melv said:

Sept 13, 2013 10:20:40 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Well at some point mistakes were made. It didn't always exist as it was. Films are made in stages. From the concept stage to the final product choices were made. For some people those choices didn't work. I can't speak for everyone but my problems with it were do to execution not necessarily content. I didn't go in "expecting" anything but a good film. I had no image of what Superman "should" be except what Snyder and Goyer said it was but the film isn't even consistent with itself and what they said. Those are mistakes. So no not everyone ruined of for themselves. The guys saying it was one thing when it wasn't ruined it. It's their product. Don't tell people the film is going to do something when it doesn't.

They made their film and you didn't like it. The film itself doesn't state anywhere that it was going to be the most realistic superhero film. You built it up because you expected too much. It may have been bad but it wasn't ruined.

The film can only have been ruined if you saw a previous version that was 'better' and they changed it for the worse. That never happened.

Wrong. I didn't expect it to be some masterpiece. I expected the film they sold it to us as. But the film had some bone headed flaws and oversights on things THEY claimed the film would address and things the film itself presented during its runtime. That's not me making big expectations out if anything. When the film makers sell their film as a real world reaction to a Superman showing up and the film raises certain questions and doesn't deliver then has huge gaps in its own logic that's their fault not mine. If you want your film accepted as fantasy then present it as fantasy. Don't make some grand claims that its going to go in some bond new direction if you lazily don't even bother. Even Marvel delivers on the real world reaction crap and they've never sold their films as being heavily realistic. Yet they still don't gloss over major questions that are left at the end of the film the way MOS did. Just because some people want to pretend like these problems don't exist doesn't mean that people critical of the film aren't making valid observations when they bring them up. Snyder had the same problem on Watchmen. He never understood follow through. I don't mind changes but you also have to consider his those changes affect the characters and the story and their motivations. Snyder didn't several times in Watchmen.

Real world presentation of Superman? Ok. But don't fucking choke when it comes time to deal with major questions that would be left at the end of the movie. Nobody forced them to do that. Everyone involved just rode Nolan's style because it had made money before.

And yeah Snyder and Goyer DID say the film was going to be a real world reaction to events depicted and the arrival of aliens and the film itself raised the same questions about what people's reactions might be of all this stuff went down. But in the film we hardly see it after the heavy shit goes down. How would Metropolis and the USA and the world react if an alien invasion and battle left a major American city partially in ruins and who knows how many were killed? If some giant machine was terraforming earth? We don't know because the movie pretty much skips right the fuck over it over it.

[EnriqueH]

I forgot about that!!!!

What a cool opportunity!

RUINED.