Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 21, 2020 8:18:29 GMT -5
I think it’s just too difficult to keep as many shows as there are now working together smoothly in unison. Between CW, DCU, HBO, and all the other networks how many DC shows have we had on in just the last five years alone? I think they just find it much easier and much more creatively freeing to let each show do what they want. Because most of the major lead characters are off limits creators have to work with spin off or prequel shows like Krypton or Gotham or Pennyworth which could be good shows but most people aren’t interested in watching. Not many are interested in a Batman show with no Batman. Like you said Crisis didn’t get massive ratings but then how many superhero shows ever have? I could probably count them on one hand and still have fingers unused. There’s not enough incentive there to put that kind of effort in sadly. It’s always been difficult for superhero shows to draw large audiences for whatever reason. They’re like the niche within niche shows and for what they cost compared to other kinds of shows it’s not worth it to production companies and networks. That’s exponentially more true in today’s age of streaming and cable and dvr where ratings for all networks are eroding faster and faster. Numbers that would get a show cancelled 20 or 30 years ago are considered a hit today. Lois & Clark would be seen as a big success on ABC today even with its fourth season ratings. Again--- While I've always been a bit moderate in my enthusiasm for much of the Berlianti tv shows (if they subtracted the dull romances it might help a lot)- I can't give Berlianti & company enough credit for what they pulled off with Crisis- and WITH their limitations. As far as the 'shows without the main character'--- It's really got to be amazing for me to want to watch it. Smallville was already pushing my limits with it's 'before he became a hero he never wore a costume'- annoying bit. I still cringe when I think of Sony's contemplation of an Aunt May solo film awhile back. With ratings and the multiple venues for viewing.... I don't know how things are figured out at this point--- Just as movies that bomb in the US sometimes make their profits from overseas, who knows if Netflix deals/dvd sales/etc. help the bottom line and make ratings less relevant? I caught Crisis online with the free streaming with commercials, so I wonder how that plays into the numbers--- but, again, I do think it's nice when good work is rewarded and recognized--- so, hopefully WB/DC was happy with the results and let Berlianti do more. It’s a brave new world when it comes to television, what’s considered acceptable numbers, and how they calculate how many people are dealt watching and how they watch. The old model is just about completely outdated. I know the CW is on a very different model on other networks like fox. Between streaming rights, overseas broadcast fees, and dvd sales they apparently make up for the smaller network ratings. That’s not even getting into how dvr binge viewing and delayed viewing has changed things. Live numbers are still important but not as important. And with that you have to think about ad revenue because most of us don’t watch the commercials when we record. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 22, 2020 21:17:37 GMT -5
Again--- While I've always been a bit moderate in my enthusiasm for much of the Berlianti tv shows (if they subtracted the dull romances it might help a lot)- I can't give Berlianti & company enough credit for what they pulled off with Crisis- and WITH their limitations. As far as the 'shows without the main character'--- It's really got to be amazing for me to want to watch it. Smallville was already pushing my limits with it's 'before he became a hero he never wore a costume'- annoying bit. I still cringe when I think of Sony's contemplation of an Aunt May solo film awhile back. With ratings and the multiple venues for viewing.... I don't know how things are figured out at this point--- Just as movies that bomb in the US sometimes make their profits from overseas, who knows if Netflix deals/dvd sales/etc. help the bottom line and make ratings less relevant? I caught Crisis online with the free streaming with commercials, so I wonder how that plays into the numbers--- but, again, I do think it's nice when good work is rewarded and recognized--- so, hopefully WB/DC was happy with the results and let Berlianti do more. It’s a brave new world when it comes to television, what’s considered acceptable numbers, and how they calculate how many people are dealt watching and how they watch. The old model is just about completely outdated. I know the CW is on a very different model on other networks like fox. Between streaming rights, overseas broadcast fees, and dvd sales they apparently make up for the smaller network ratings. That’s not even getting into how dvr binge viewing and delayed viewing has changed things. Live numbers are still important but not as important. And with that you have to think about ad revenue because most of us don’t watch the commercials when we record. I guess the real meter for success of a show now is just if it gets renewed or not.... but I do think it's funny and interesting that actors all look towards rather than away from superhero properties. Now and then I still get annoyed at Scorcese and Coppola's slams at superhero films- but then I think that it's really childish envy that there aren't going to be conventions where children and parents worship films like: "One from the Heart" or "The Gangs of New York" years after the fact.... while the Marvel films will (if humanity survives) go on for decades and be celebrated from generations just like the Star Wars franchise sort of has. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 26, 2020 21:31:53 GMT -5
Wish WB would do something like this for real in the DCAU. They’ve already opened the door to it with alternate earths and timelines in the dcau. They could take it even farther and tap into their entire animated history.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 27, 2020 1:41:38 GMT -5
Wish WB would do something like this for real in the DCAU. They’ve already opened the door to it with alternate earths and timelines in the dcau. They could take it even farther and tap into their entire animated history. I used to be thrilled and foaming at the mouth over the possibilities in DC's animated universe- but so many disappointing adaptations and unnecessary pg-13 language have put me off. Thus far, the Justice League, Brave and the Bold, and Green Lantern animated series have wowed me the most. (haven't seen the orginal batman series yet though) For the full-length features, the Crisis JL movie that adapted the Grant Morrison story, Part two of the Dark Knight Returns, and the Wonder Woman movie impressed me the most. There might be others that have been great- but so many have underwhelmed in one way or another that I stopped following and just wait for great word of mouth before I look for them. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 27, 2020 8:32:13 GMT -5
The potential is there and always has been its the talent the freedom and the resources that aren’t.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 28, 2020 1:47:07 GMT -5
The potential is there and always has been its the talent the freedom and the resources that aren’t. It's the choices that get made that drive me up the wall- From character design to story alterations that often don't need to be made (and are usually for the worse). I kind of wish that motion comics didn't bomb (or disappoint) as much as it did- I'd much rather have seen a Batman: Year One and several other adaptations done as a motion comic with the original art than the conversion to animation. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 28, 2020 10:56:06 GMT -5
Some of that is driven by the limitations on the budget or the medium which I understand but sometimes if it’s a choice just for the sake of it it’s a little annoying. It’s one of the drawbacks of doing direct animated adaptations. Some people have expectations that aren’t there with live action.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 28, 2020 16:04:05 GMT -5
Some of that is driven by the limitations on the budget or the medium which I understand but sometimes if it’s a choice just for the sake of it it’s a little annoying. It’s one of the drawbacks of doing direct animated adaptations. Some people have expectations that aren’t there with live action. Budget I understand, but my irritations go more to the idea of changing things usually for the worse that don't seem necessary. If an animated version results in something that would end up with less visual or emotional impact than a motion comic--- then by all means, they should go with the motion comic imo. As is.... too many of the adaptations from DC make me feel like the original source material was/were watered down so much, that they might as well have stick figures animated for the animation version. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 31, 2020 13:06:07 GMT -5
Sometimes it goes behind budget and just practicality. What looks best in motion in animation? What’s going to allow for the least amount of animation errors? It’s why so many shows have streamlined and simplified their styles compared to 80s cartoons. Not just budget but what’s easiest to animate and stay on model with?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 1, 2020 10:57:14 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 4, 2020 12:00:08 GMT -5
Gorgous art.
I wonder now and then if the designers of the George Reeves costume were happy with their costume design or if they had budget constraints.
I grew up with the reruns, so I was fine and amazed by it.... but were the original costume designers happy? Hard to know...
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 4, 2020 18:56:08 GMT -5
Considering the time period I’m guessing they were happy with it. Its not like they had much better to compare it to. It’s more or less the classic costume of the time and the execution is solid even if it’s nothing spectacular. But then how many costumes like that were spectacular...even on film in that decade? There really wasn’t much more they could do because of the limitations of the time. But like I said it’s the suit from the comics. When I look at a Wayne Boring page it pretty much looks like George. If they’d tried that exact same suit in say...1978 it wouldn’t have cut it even on television. Not because of the design but the materials, execution, etc.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 7, 2020 10:57:40 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 13, 2020 22:25:07 GMT -5
Comes from growing up with the show:
1966 Batmobile beats them all---
Though-
The Nolan Tumbler and The Burton Batmobile are pretty damn cool...
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 14, 2020 15:07:04 GMT -5
For me it’s a tossup between the 66 and 89 Batmobiles. The Barris design has influenced almost every Batmobile since. The only one I outright don’t like is the B&R Batmobile. The Forever is underrated but the BvS Batmobile is a bit over designed in my mind.
It’s interesting to see how much like a normal car most Batmobiles looked until the 80s. Neal Adams usually drew it like a sportscar. I think that’s why I like the Pattinson/Reeves Batmobile so much because it’s getting back to the cars roots. It’s also interesting how the comic book versions of the car haven’t had the same impact that the film and tv versions have even on comic book fans. Even the animated versions have been more memorable IMO. I loved the superfriends and btas designs.
There have been so many versions over the decades it’s hard to come up with something new that’s unique.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 16, 2020 2:12:59 GMT -5
For me it’s a tossup between them 66 and 89 Batmobiles. The Barris design has influenced almost every Batmobile since. The only one I outright don’t like is the B&R Batmobile. The Forever is underrated but the BvS Batmobile is a bit over designed in my mind. It’s interesting to see how much like a normal car most Batmobiles looked until the 80s. Neal Adams usually drew it like a sportscar. I think that’s why I like the Pattinson/Reeves Batmobile so much because it’s getting back to the cars roots. It’s also interesting how the comic book versions of the car haven’t had for impact that the film and tv versions have had even on comic book fans. Recent the animated version have been more memorable IMO. I loved the superfriends and btas designs. There have been so many versions over the decades it’s hard to come up with something new that’s unique. The 'experimental military design' angle of the Nolan Batmobile I really thought was clever and made sense- But I have to admit that the 'Batcycle - eject' sequence in TDK I absolutely got the giggles on- LOVED it. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 16, 2020 17:07:06 GMT -5
It’s one reason I prefer Nolan’s Batmobile to Snyder’s. There’s a reason it looks the way it does and it matches the design aesthetic of other things in the movie like Wayne’s armor.
A lot of choices made for Snyder’s film was based purely on look but it seems to be this weird middle ground between being designed for practicality and being designed to be some dudebro wet dream. Why does it open the way it does? Why does it have the guns mounted on the front that way. It’s cool but certain things are done just for the heck of it. It’s a perfect representation of Snyder’s approach to the entire movie.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 16, 2020 17:58:01 GMT -5
It’s one reason I prefer Nolan’s Batmobile to Snyder’s. There’s a reason it looks the way it does and it matches the design aesthetic of other things in the movie like Wayne’s armor. A lot of choices made for Snyder’s film was based purely on look but it seems to be this weird middle ground between being designed for practicality and being designed to be some dudebro wet dream. Why does it open the way it does? Why does it have the guns mounted on the front that way. It’s cool but certain things are done just for the heck of it. It’s a perfect representation of Snyder’s approach to the entire movie. The best of both worlds is: for Batman action scenes- get Snyder. The rest Chris Nolan--- with some oversight so that it doesn't become TDKR--- that was such a sadly rushed mess... |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 18, 2020 11:03:21 GMT -5
I think ideally you’d get a director that has both of their strengths rather than have two people like them work together. I think they’re both pretty strong willed on what they want. It’s not like two directors who have worked together for years like the Russo’s or other directing duos line Lord and Miller.
I don’t think TDKR is a mess but it is disappointing. I think Nolan and co said that they wanted to say with the first two films and TDKR didn’t have as much focus or hunger to be made.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 18, 2020 13:35:41 GMT -5
I think ideally you’d get a director that has both of their strengths rather than have two people like them work together. I think they’re both pretty strong willed on what they want. It’s not like two directors who have worked together for years like the Russo’s or other directing duos line Lord and Miller. I don’t think TDKR is a mess but it is disappointing. I think Nolan and co said that they wanted to say with the first two films and TDKR didn’t have as much focus or hunger to be made. There were too many competing agendas for that to work and squeeze into one film. Spiderman 3 apparently was originally two films - Spiderman 3 & 4--- and I think that would have worked out SO much better than the mashup job that resulted. TDKR perhaps should also have been two films to effectively play out the things that they wanted to. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 18, 2020 19:19:26 GMT -5
TDKR could have worked as one film. It just needed a better script. Spiderman 3 was trying to juggle too many things at once and wrap up too many stories. Venom could carry his own film as the villain and the alien costume story could have been its own film. Rises had a of stories it was drawing from as well but it didn’t seem to be dealing with as many characters. Gwen was wasted in Spider-Man 3 because she was basically a side element. Most of Rises main characters didn’t feel like afterthoughts
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 21, 2020 13:16:52 GMT -5
TDKR could have worked as one film. It just needed a better script. Spiderman 3 was trying to juggle too many things at once and wrap up too many stories. Venom could carry his own film as the villain and the alien costume story could have been its own film. Rises had a of stories it was drawing from as well but it didn’t seem to be dealing with as many characters. Gwen was wasted in Spider-Man 3 because she was basically a side element. Most of Rises main characters didn’t feel like afterthoughts Originally Gwen was to be the new love interest & MJ gone--until they found out Bryce Howard was pregnant halfway through filming. Pity that the script for that original version never got released... But... yeah, no matter what, it was way too much for one film to have a good impact. Rises had a love story that didn't work in any real direction... and it put too much emphasis on 'the twist' than the humanity. Getting rid of Gordon's family didn't help (though it made sense).. Getting rid of Alfred hurt it... So most of the characters on screen were so cold (Catwoman/ Taia/ Bats/ even Robin)-- that it was tough to embrace that much darkness throughout. Felt soulless. The previous two films had characters with heart to balance the darkness out. WIth Spiderman 3, at least there was that- but both are giant messes imo.... |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 26, 2020 15:55:19 GMT -5
Too much of Rises comes out of nowhere. The Miranda Tate twist was obvious and they didn’t do enough to build to a relationship with her and Bruce. Too much of the movie felt contrived and convenient. Alfred leaving made some sense (to try and stop Bruce with an ultimatum) but was a little abrupt. If he was so gung ho about it he would have put a stop to it at the very start.
As for Spider-Man 3 if they’d written MJ out then it wouldn’t have resolved the ending we saw in 2. The time to write MJ out would have been after 3 and bring Gwen in for 4. Maybe do Death of Gwen Stacy in Spider-man 5 with Harry as the Goblin or with someone cast as Hobgoblin after Harry’s arc was finished in 3.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 26, 2020 17:37:16 GMT -5
Too much of Rises comes out of nowhere. The Miranda Tate twist was obvious and they didn’t do enough to build to a relationship with her and Bruce. Too much of the movie felt contrived and convenient. Alfred leaving made some sense (to try and stop Bruce with an ultimatum) but was a little abrupt. If he was so gung ho about it he would have put a stop to it at the very start. As for Spider-Man 3 if they’d written MJ out then it wouldn’t have resolved the ending we saw in 2. The time to write MJ out would have been after 3 and bring Gwen in for 4. Maybe do Death of Gwen Stacy in Spider-man 5 with Harry as the Goblin or with someone cast as Hobgoblin after Harry’s arc was finished in 3. Bits and pieces were already filmed for Spiderman 3 (i.e. the action sequence between Harry and Peter at the beginning) as the fx team needed enough lead time, but a lot of the process was a giant mess. They should have delayed the release time by a year at least to figure everything out first. Such an unfortunate mess.... even with the heart in the right place. Pity. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2020 13:06:37 GMT -5
Even worse since I thought the cgi in that sequence was pretty poor. I think spidey 3 was doomed no matter how long they put it off. It may have been better but Sony and Arad would have ruined it no matter what.
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